Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 07:30:12 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #498 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. OPENING A STUDIO (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 2. Re: golden ratio (Neil Burton) 3. Re: Teaching for money (Jye nigma) 4. Golden Ratio (Frank Clay) 5. Black Belt test (Joan Gittleman) 6. old time training (Rudy Timmerman) 7. the golden ratio (Don Kirsch) 8. weapons and yudo seminar (Don Kirsch) 9. Dan Bon's (Charles Richards) 10. Re: Re: opening school (Ray Terry) 11. Doing it for the money (Dana Yeagley) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:07:14 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] OPENING A STUDIO Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Bishop; In the organization in which I train, The US Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan federation Inc. There are guide lines set by the federation to insure the quality of instruction at a newly opened do-jang. The term Cho Dan means beginning level not instructor. It is my opinion that students at this rank are not ready to become studio owners and head instructors. They are ready and should be required to do some teaching under the guidance of a more senior instructor. Being able do perform techniques well does not make any one a good instructor. The Moo Duk Kwan allows students at 1st gup and cho dan to test for Jo-Kyo or assistant instructor. This is fairly new with the federation although the concept has been practices for many years. These students that wish to pursue instructor certification are required to complete a written study guide designed to help them learn how to teach what they have learned. They are requires to teach under the guidance of there instructor, and they are required to complete a formal testing in front of there personal instructor. Only E-Dan students and above can open a new studio. They must have completed the Jo Kyo program, with a history of teaching and have there instructors recommendation. They are then required to complete yet another study, in the form of essays written about history, culture, terminology, and teaching methods. once completed they are required to participate in a three day testing, designed to put the student in positions of authority (such as leading clinics under the watchful eye of there seniors at camps, or seminars.) The three days allows the evaluating seniors to help the student become a better instructor. They are also required to demonstrate all lower rank material and explain the mechanics of each. Upon passing the testing process they will be awarded instructors certification (Kyo Sa) They can then pursue opening a studio of there own. They are also allowed to test students up to 1st gup. Sa Bom certification is acquired by 4th dans and above and is only attained at the week long Ko Dan Ja Shim Sa. 4th Dan rank is Master level in the Moo Duk Kwan but does not constitute Sa Bom. Sa Bom certification is a separate testing process with similar, although more intense requirements than Kyo Sa. All Sa Bom candidates are required to teach in front of HC Hwang him self in addition to the week long evaluation. Sa Bom instructors are also allowed to set on a Dan testing board. Being a master with out having completed the Sa Bom certification process does not give anyone in the Moo Duk Kwan the right to test students at the Dan level. This seems very strict but it is my opinion that it prevents people from opening studios and teaching people. When they should have just continued to train and mature. I believe I personally am a better instructor for having been through this process. It is my opinion that Cho Dans should not be studio owners. Any good instructor will tell you that you learn as much teaching as you do training, because you are forced to analyze things more, and answer questions that students may ask from a cloudy perspective. Cho Dans should be given the opportunity to teach and grow as an instructor, under the guidance of another senior instructor. The less teaching experience a new instructor has the more bad habits they teach to others. If a cho dan is teaching and begins to lead students in a wrong direction the senior can correct it then. As a studio owner the cho dan teaches a student wrong and the new student now has a bad habit because the instructor was not willing to wait and grow as an instructor before jumping into the roll. The new student pays a great price for the cho dans lack of patients Consider Cho Dan as graduation from high school. E-dan as a two year teaching degree, and Sa Bom as a Masters degree in teaching. Just a thought! Respectfully; JC --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:38:19 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Burton Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] golden ratio To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net May In answer this? Phi (made oh so popular by Dan Brown in the Da Vinci Code) is related to Fibonacci numbers by the golden mean. By charting the population of rabbits, Fibonacci discovered a number series from which one can derive the Golden Mean. This sequence is: 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55... This is calculatted by adding each number to its preceeding number. So 0 + 1 is 1. 1 + 1 is 2. etc Dividing each number in the series by the one which preceeds it produces a ratio which stabilizes around 1.618034 - or otherwise around Phi! Far more data than any sane person requires about Phi, the Golden ratio, the Golden Mean, Golden Rectangles etc can be found at: http://jwilson.coe.uga.edu/emt669/Student.Folders/Frietag.Mark/Homepage/Goldenratio/goldenratio.html Regards Neil --- michael tomlinson wrote: > Frank writes: > Thirteen is also a Fibonacci number, which > refers to the theoretical, and controversial Golden > ration. > > How do you figure this? I use the golden ratio in > my artwork and I don't > understand where you related the number 13 to > this... > > Michael > Tomlinson > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 04:51:09 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Teaching for money To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Now here's my 2 cents. When explaining where one trains in the martial arts, the typical answer is a martial arts SCHOOL. Now across the board, typically any school you attend charges a tuition no? The martial arts is no different. So to me there is nothing wrong with charging for attendance, because let's face it, it costs to learn these days. But there are some greedy people out there who make it seem as if that is their only purpose on earth....to get money. When money is the focus and people just pass students just to keep that money that's when it's a problem. Now imagine if colleges across the country guaranteed doctors their credentials in 2 months...lol. That's my 2 cents. Jye --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today! --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:27:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Golden Ratio Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael, Rather than try and explain it, I have provided some sources for you to research: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoldenRatio.html http://jwilson.coe.uga.edu/emt669/Student.Folders/Frietag.Mark/Homepage/Gold enratio/goldenratio.html http://www.jimloy.com/geometry/golden.htm http://www.infinitetechnologies.co.za/articles/geometry1.html I hope this helps. Bear in mind, that this is a particularly controversial theory. Frank --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:51:03 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Joan Gittleman Subject: [The_Dojang] Black Belt test Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I want to congratulate fellow digest member Lawren Hasten on her promotion by Master Hodder to 2nd Dan in TKD this weekend. You did a great job Lawren! It was a privilege being your uki. Joan Gittleman --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:15:48 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] old time training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kat writes: > From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" > To: > Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:40:09 -0600 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Training with GM Timmerman > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I want to congratulate all who were in the Soo for the training, > testing, > promotions and dinner/dance. > I had the priviledge of being there last year and had hoped to be able > to make > it an annual tradition. This year it was not to be but am hopeful to > be there > next year. > I have trained at GM Timmerman's dojang and can tell you no matter > when I was > there and whatever else was going on, I was always made to to feel at > home. > The training was always an inspiration and I never spent a moment there > without learning something new, even on material I had known for years. > > I recommend that anyone who has a chance to spend time with GM > Timmerman do > so, I know for me personaly I always learn from him even when we just > share a > meal:) > > Congrats to all Band of Brothers members whom made it through this past > year... and congratulations to Master DeWitt and PSBN Keppers. > > And a special congratulations to my friends and training partners > (now) Kwan > Jang Nim Lorne Keatley and Jo Kyo Nim Manfred Fischer of Timmerman's > Martial > Arts in Sault Ste Marie. I miss you guys!!! > > Kat Hello Kat: We missed you to, and I really hope next year will be the year for you. Thanks also To Master J for his nice comments. I look forward to seeing both of you complete the program. Can you imagine the party after :). Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Don Kirsch" To: Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:42:08 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] the golden ratio Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know this is a KMA forum and not a math discussion but since the topic was mentioned and there appears to be some confusion. The golden ratio is derived from the Fibonacci sequence which is a list of numbers that has the property of each following number is the sum of the previous two numbers (0+1=1, 1+1=2, 1+2=3,...the list is 1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21...on into infinity) . The Golden Ratio is the number derived from dividing each number in the sequence by the preceding number. Its stabilizes to a ratio of around 1.618034. So, that's how 13 is related to the golden ratio. This ratio is a common physical form found in nature...the nautilus shell, the pattern found in sunflowers, the shape of galaxies and so on . A way the golden ratio directly relates to HapKiDo is in the physical form of a decreasing radius circle. This path following the inward spiral is what mathematically is described as an equiangular spiral . Anyway, if anyone reading this is still awake that's my lecture for the day. Regards, Don Kirsch --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Don Kirsch" To: Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:05:46 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] weapons and yudo seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just wanted to give a big thanks to Grandmaster J.R. West for the seminar this weekend. Friday night Grand Master West taught cane, belt and dan bong techniques and Sat. we were honored to have Dr. He-Young Kimm teach a yudo seminar. As is always the case I was amazed by Dr. Kimm's in-depth knowledge of motion and philosophy . Dr. Kimm is an extremely busy man these days and I wanted to express my gratitude to Grandmaster West for arranging the seminar and to Dr. Kimm for finding the time to come and teach the seminar. Along with the techniques and theory of motion Dr. Kimm taught his final thoughts on principals to live by can benefit us all..." have goals, have an open mind and be optimistic . " Regards, Don Kirsch --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:06:22 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Dan Bon's Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read "Master Richards; I talked to federation headquarters Friday. HC Hwang Kwan Jang Nim was in Mexico until the 18th. He also left message for me via Master Phil Duncan that he would indeed find the dan #s, Ranks and dates of departure from the Moo Duk Kwan of the people listed in the earlier post. His message indicated that due to the age of some of the practitioners departure. They will be recorded in the original Dan Number book in Korea. He said he would get the information for me but that the US federations records don't include the complete Dan number records. As soon as I know I will let everyone know." MC Reply JC, this is a great service to all the TSD players on this list that are researching the roots! Maybe we could talk Ray into making a little table in the resource area for these factoids :-) I respectfully request you use MC on this list although I do appreciate your TSD protocol. YIJD, MC --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: opening school To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:26:38 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Each org will likely have their own restrictions as to when one can/should run their own school. Many of those restrictions will be based on limiting the competition for the instructors currently in the biz. That aside, once you reach 2nd or 3rd or 4th dan you'll realize how little you really knew at 1st dan. In most styles at 1st Dan you are just a beginner, far too much of a beginner to be teaching, imho. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Dana Yeagley" To: Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:27:07 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Doing it for the money Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've been reading the emails about this subject for awhile now and have agreed with some points on both sides of the issue. My husband has been teaching for over 22 years. Up until 4 months ago, he had a full time job so TKD was his mission, his passion. He worked his 8 1/2 hour day then went to the dojang and taught for 2 -3 hrs, 2 - 4 X a week depending. He pretty much gave lessons away and didn't raise his rates for over 15 years. Meanwhile, the cost of everything else is going up, gas, food, rent, salaries for the parents, or students themselves. He didn't care, it wasn't about making money, it was about giving them what he had been given. Wanting them to have what he had, not just physically, but in his blood, and most importantly, in his heart. He ended up selling a building he bought, renting space out of a rec center, then deciding that wasn't the best for his students, rented space in a building again. The cost difference was significant. In calling around to other schools, we saw that we were about $40.00 a month cheaper than everyone else. So, we raised our prices to stay comparable to the other schools. As we have continued to do. We have NEVER turned anyone away who cannot pay for lessons. We have about 10% of our students are going for free or discounted tuition. We work closely with the Social Services in our area to provide lessons for kids who wouldn't be able to afford it. Now that my husband has been let go from the company where he worked for 20 years we are relying more on the Tae Kwon Do to help pay for our household expenses where we never had to before. Are we going to change the way we look at students (dollar signs instead of people)? NO. But, we do have to change the way we look at the business. We have to look at it as a business now and with that we should charge what is fair. Just a reminder, God is with you. Dana http://www.WeTrainHarder.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest