Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 03:02:28 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #512 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. re: Master Rank (Lasich, Mark D.) 2. Master Rank (Sharon Tkach) 3. Re: Names and Numbers (Bruce Sims) 4. Tang Soo Do (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 5. Other versions (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 6. MA rags (Ray Terry) 7. Master or Not (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 8. RE: Hwang Kees version of history (Howard Kicks) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:52:23 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] re: Master Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the ATA, Master is a title that can be earned after at least one year of achieving 6th Degree. While I don't know all the specifics, the title is not given, but earned based on how involved the individual is in the overall organization, how they are helping it grow (based on the number of their students, seminars they teach, regional & national involvement), additional training, etc. I have known individuals who were awarded the title at the end of that first year, and others who took longer. In the spirit, Mark ------------------ "It's the love that you give, In the hour you live, That's the measure of the life you lead." ~ Ronnie Milsap --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Sharon Tkach" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:23:57 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm sorry - had a senior moment. In Jang Mu Hapkido, Master rank is 6th degree, not 5th. ~Sharon --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:28:43 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Names and Numbers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".....Hapkido will never have a common language because there's not a single entity that you can point to and say, "there...that's the guys we report to"......" And, for me, therein lies the rub. Your use of the Kodokan for Judo is right on the money. And, yes, it IS a convenience that the Judo people enjoy. But I also think this line of thought has become a crutch. We don't develop a common language because ______(fillin your favorite excuse)_______. Certainly it WOULD BE nice if we had a common source. But just because we don't doesn't mean that when we talk about a Front Snap Kick we can use the term "Ahp Chagi" and everyone knows we are talking about the same kick whether we use the ball of the foot or the top of the foot. We can all decide for a common term to identify a Front Thrust Kick and a Front Toe Kick as well. We can all agree that "Yuhp Chagi" is a Side Kick though some will still argue the fine points of using the blade of the foot versus the heel. We don't have to wait for some highly revered personality to sanction the effort or approve the final draft. Are people truely THAT worried about their own little fiefs that they figure using a common language will undermine their authority in their own little pond? And as far as talking on the Net, I hold that its a matter of "chicken or the egg". Do we not have a coomon language because we don't need to talk technically--- or ----- do we not have technical discussions because we do not have the language for it? FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:23:33 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tang Soo Do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Richards I have to agree with you. Maybe what I am trying to say is that the Name Tang Soo Do is most often referred to as being associated with Hwang Kee and the Moo Duk Kwan. I agree he did not create the name. JC --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:48:11 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Other versions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Frank I believe the site you are referring to is Dan Nolan's site. I have researched it. It is a good in site to history, containing many excerpts from the meetings that took place during the unification attempts. I ran across an article in the May 1975 issue of Inside Kung Fu that reads quote "He created Moo Duk Kwan--Not Tang Soo Do,"..."The Moo DUk Kwan is his own organization; Tang Soo Do is the name of the art. He didn't create Tang Soo Do." This was an interview with GM Hwang Kee being interpreted by Jin Mon Hwang. I realize did not create Tang Soo Do! I read quote from Black Belt Magazine March 1980 "HC Hwang, son of founder of Tang Soo Do" and Front cover of Black Belt magazine November 1978 reads "Hwang Kee, Founder of Tang Soo Do, on the Evolution of his art" and yet another in 1982 issue of Karate illustrated " Hwang Kee, the founding father of Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan." I have come to believe that a better and more accurate perspective is that GM Hwang Kee is the founder of Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan. Meaning the version of Tang Soo Do taught by the Moo Duk Kwan. Won Kuk Lee was the founder of Tang Soo Do Chung Do Kwan meaning the version of Tang Soo Do taught by the Chung Do Kwan. This is why many refer to GM Hwang Kee as the founder of Tang Soo Do, they have just left the Moo Duk Kwan name off the equation. Comments JC --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:14:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] MA rags Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I ran across an article in the May 1975 issue of Inside Kung Fu that reads > quote "He created Moo Duk Kwan--Not Tang Soo Do,"..."The Moo DUk Kwan is his > own organization; Tang Soo Do is the name of the art. He didn't create Tang > Soo Do." This was an interview with GM Hwang Kee being interpreted by Jin Mon > Hwang. I realize did not create Tang Soo Do! > > I read quote from Black Belt Magazine March 1980 "HC Hwang, son of founder of > Tang Soo Do" and Front cover of Black Belt magazine November 1978 reads "Hwang > Kee, Founder of Tang Soo Do, on the Evolution of his art" and yet another in > 1982 issue of Karate illustrated " Hwang Kee, the founding father of Tang Soo > Do Moo Duk Kwan." On a slightly different topic... You have just shown that the various 'popular' MA rags cannot be trusted to despense facts or the truth. TKD Times, Blackbelt, etc are mostly jokes, places to run advertising for Century, Macho, Adidas et al. Articles by Sharon and Alain aside... :) IMHO it seems that there is only one highly respected martial arts journal currently in circulation in the US and that is the Journal of Asian Martial Arts, in which Dakin has been published on several occasions. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:34:16 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master or Not Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net MS Master ranks are given at different levels in different organization. I can tell you that in the US Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan organization. Students test for 4th degree, and if they are promoted they are recognized as Master. They are not recognized as Sa Bom or instructor. Sa Bom certification is a separate testing that is limited to 4th degree and above. Students can test for Jyo Kyo or assistant instructor at 1 gup and Cho Dan. Kyo Sa certifications are limited to e-dans and above and Sa Boms must be 4th degree or above. The federation requires all studio owners to be at least Kyo Sa certified. JC --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Howard Kicks" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Hwang Kees version of history Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 02:27:54 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Gladewater asked who wrote the most accurate version of karate kwan history. See Kyong-Myong Lee and Won-Sik Kang's history. HK _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest