Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 03:04:37 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #516 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on behemoth2.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Chinese sources for claims on Koguryo (Ray Terry) 2. Re: Hapkido discrepancy (CStovall@nucorar.com) 3. Len Losik Books (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 4. Sensei Russell McCartney... (Bert Edens) 5. [Eskrima] rotator cuff injuries (fwd) (Ray Terry) 6. American Open TKD Chip (Ray Terry) 7. Re: sword cutting (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 8. JAMA URL (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 12:09:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Chinese sources for claims on Koguryo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FWIW Forwarding... The short answer to your question is no, there is nothing in English (to my knowledge) that offers any kind of historical support for the claim that Koguryo was a Chinese state. There are many reasons why this is so, and the long answer follows below. First of all, there is no single argument in support of this claim, but rather a number of individual arguments from individual scholars, based on interpretations of historical documents, theories on ethnicity and nation, and so on. Furthermore, there is really no "official" argument upheld by the PRC government (though many people appear to believe that there is). The government "view", as best as can be discerned, is simply that Koguryo was a Chinese state, regardless of what argument is used to arrive at that conclusion. The concern among South Koreans that China has an official argument, or at least an official conclusion, regarding Koguryo's alleged Chinese-ness originated with some of the publications of China's Northeast Project, which is a five-year project established in February 2002 to promote scholarly work on many facets of the history of the Northeast and to compile data and scholarship pertaining to the Northeast in general. The Northeast Project is funded by government agencies, including the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences and the provincial governments of the Northeast. The mission statement of the Northeast Project is very frank when it announces that the purpose of the Project is to provide funding and venue for academic work for its own sake, as well as to provide historical arguments that might one day be used for more immediate political ends. There are several publications put out by the Project on the subject of Koguryo (though these represent only a small fraction of the overall work of the Project), and some of these offer various arguments for Koguryo's having been a Chinese state. None of the arguments for Koguryo's Chinese-ness included in the publications of the Northeast Project are new. They represent the ideas of prominent scholars whose work had been circulating for many years before the Northeast Project began - it just so happened that as prominent scholars, their work was naturally included among the publications of the Project. There are several entirely different approaches found in these publications, and no evidence that the authors worked together on the arguments they employ. Their views do not represent the majority of scholars in the Northeast, though they have been relatively effective at swaying opinion since their conclusions that Koguryo was a Chinese state are comforting in certain circles. If these ideas have been around for so long, why have people in South Korea become upset about them only since last December? The primary reason for this is the fact that until the South Korean media grabbed hold of the story last December (due to the UNESCO matter), practically nobody in South Korea knew (or cared) what Chinese scholars had been saying about Koguryo. Since the issue has become known in South Korea only recently, people tend to perceive only the most recent iteration of these Chinese Koguryo arguments - namely, those published in the papers of the Northeast Project. This brings me to the secondary reason for special concern over the most recent series of events, which is the fact that the Northeast Project is government funded, and this creates the impression that the views regarding Koguryo published in the papers of the Northeast Project somehow now represent the "official" view of the Chinese government (this is a mistaken impression, though the potential admittedly exists that the PRC might one day choose to fall back on one of these arguments for political purposes). However, it is not clear to what extent the Chinese government has declared its "official" position regarding Koguryo, and in any case the general idea that ancient states that once occupied lands now governed by the PRC are to be viewed as ancient Chinese states is not at all new. I might add here that, as alluded to above, many in South Korea believe that the publication of academic arguments by the government-funded Northeast Project represents the escalation of those arguments from the academic realm to the political realm - but they seem not to understand that in the PRC no such academic projects can exist except under government auspices. The government, however, does not tell the scholars what to write, what conclusions to reach, or what arguments to use. The gist of the above is simply that there is no single argument representative of the Chinese position, and the Chinese government has moreover been cautiously vague about its "official" stance regarding Koguryo's Chinese-ness. Another reason you have not seen any English-language treatments of the various arguments published by the Northeast Project is that China (including the government and individual scholars) seems uninterested in convincing the outside world that Koguryo was a Chinese state. The government and those scholars who insist on the Chinese Koguryo position are interested, first and foremost, in the internal security of the PRC, especially its border regions. I have already discussed the reasons for this on the present forum and will not reiterate them here. While there are no English translations of the various Chinese publications that treat Koguryo as a Chinese state, I have presented a number of papers on different aspects of Chinese scholarly views toward "ancient minority nationalities" within the overall context of Chinese historiography. Two of these papers are supposedly scheduled for publication in Korea in the next few months, one possibly appearing in the "Koguryo yongu" series published by the Koguryo Research Institute. These papers might give you an idea of how these views regarding Koguryo fit within the larger realm of historiography in Northeast China, though this may not be what you are looking for. Regards, Mark Byington On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Dennis Lee wrote: > > I know this topic has been rehashed repeatedly, but has anything scholarly been published in English supporting the Chinese claim on Koguryo? I have found things written in Chinese on Gaojuli, but nothing in English other than English versions of Chinese newspapers. If anybody can help point me in the right direction that would be great. > > Also for those who are interested, the Institute of Koguryo Studies has put out a brochure pushing the Korean side of the argument. > > Thanks! > Dennis Lee --__--__-- Message: 2 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 14:50:00 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido discrepancy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I think Occam's Razor applies here, and the way you've phrased the question has made it a little more complicated than it needs to be. Either Choi added some kicks, or Choi's students added some kicks. Never mind what they've "reported to have been taught". Heck, I don't remember what I ate for lunch last Friday. The more interesting question would be why DRAJJ has stayed "more pristine" in terms of it's kicking curriculum while the Choi line has obviously had an influx of material. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't believe Takeda taught Choi any extra kicks, and all of that stuff was added later in the Korean line (by whomever). I don't know that much about DRAJJ, but what I do know about traditional Japanese ryu-ha would tell me that they probably had a much more established line of succession and this inherently (by design or otherwise) tends to keep out major changes to the curriculum. Think about it. You don't get chosen to take over a traditional Japanese art by being some loose cannon innovator that wants to throw in a bunch of new material and throw out "all this here crap that don't work no more". They spot those boys early on, and promptly show them the door. The Koreans didn't play by those rules. Hell, they've renamed the art 50 times and added everything from Judo to Chinese Boxing. So, I don't see a "discrepancy" when I hear about some folks doing some extra kicks and then saying that "we're just doing what Choi learned from Takeda". Smells to me like the same old "traditional Korean Martial Arts" that we've all grown to love and adore. The level of innovation by some of the "Choi purists" just wasn't taken to the level of Ji and company, but there's no doubt been some changes. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 15:35:45 -0600 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Len Losik Books Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net George, I have not personally seen one, but there has been considerable discussion and review of at least some of Len Losik's books on Warrior Scholar Discussion Forum. You might find some first hand info from some of the regulars there. Tang Soo!!! Danny Dunn <<<<<< I was looking on Amazon for a book and happened across one by Len Losik. The review given by a reader said it was all non documented material available on the internet and that he would return said book and demand his/her money back. Wow! Is this person that ill considered? Just wondering as I have seen more than one advertisment for materials by him.>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 16:37:14 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Bert Edens Subject: [The_Dojang] Sensei Russell McCartney... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At 13:12 12/2/04, you wrote: >Here is a web site for Ishi Yama Ryu, Russell McCartney's style of sword >cutting. When we can get the pictures redone, Black Belt will have a good >article. :-) Thanks Ray for pointing out that some articles in BB are >not all that bad. > >http://www.ishiyamaryu.com/index.html > >Yours in Training, >Alain Burrese Greetings, all... Don't have a lot to add to places to look... I just wanted to add that I got to watch a seminar held by Sensei McCartney at the US Martial Arts Hall of Fame Training Camp in Dallas in 2003, and he was very impressive, especially for a sword-novice like myself... He also did a demonstration at the banquet that Saturday, and it was incredible and awe-inspiring... **bows** - Bert Edens, II Dan TKD Springdale, Arkansas --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 17:39:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] [Eskrima] rotator cuff injuries (fwd) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Lots of good info, so I thought you folks would enjoy seeing it. Ray ============================================= Subject: [Eskrima] rotator cuff injuries Hi Folks With the discussion on rotator cuff injuries I thought I might provide a basic summary of the types and causes. As a bit of an introduction, I'm a long time lurker on the ED and I've been doing FMA for maybe 5-6yr on and off in Sydney, Australia. I'm also a radiologist, and end up looking at quite a few of the MRI's used to diagnose the rotator cuff injuries, so while I'm not totally up to date with current treatment, I need to know what problems need what treatment. So advance warning ... long discussion which hopefully won't get too technical to follow :) The most common cause of rotator cuff injuries is impingement of the supraspinatus. This is a muscle that runs between the narrow bony opening at the top of your humerus (upper arm bone) and below the acromion (which forms the bony tip of your shoulder). This sounds like what Ray was talking about .. and is different from nerve impingement, as it is the tendon of the supraspinatus which is being squashed. What happens is that, if anything causes the muscle/tendon to swell or the bony passage to narrow .. when you move your arm around (especially movements that raise the elbow to the side), the tendon will get squashed in the bony channel. This causes repetitive microinjury which eventually weakens the tendon and predisposes to rupture. Things that can cause the above include arthritis or bony injuries where you get bony outcroppings called osteophytes forming .. which can narrow the bony channel. Alternatively .. if you injure your shoulder acutely .. say with a mistimed throw or hold .. you can get swelling/oedema of the muscle/tendon. The injury that follows make take various forms: 1) swelling/inflammation of the tendon: at this point rest and anti- inflammatories have a definate role. If you allow it to rest, the swelling will go down, and it should make the impingement better 2) partial tears: this occurs when some of the fibres rupture. When the tendon tears, you aren't going to grow it back ever. The severity of this can range just from a tiny tear to an almost complete tear and obviously, symptoms and treatment depend on how bad it is. There is still a role for rest and anti- inflammatories at this stage though .. as a minor tear which would otherwise be un-noticable and asymptomatic can cause swelling and oedema. If you don't rest and let this settle down, you can cause more injury which could otherwise have been avoided. 3) total tear: at this point the tendon is totally ruptured and the only hope is surgery. Whether or not this can be repaired depends on how long it has been going on for and whether the tendon/muscle has degenerated and atrophied. That's the main types of injuries and shows that rest and anti-inflammatories have a role in most of them. Physiotherapy is always good to strengthen the muscles which protects the rotator cuff from tears, whether you do it before or after the injury. It's important to go get it sorted out by a qualified doctor tho .. as many other conditions can cause similar problems .. which may be easily fixed. For instance, if you have a bony osteophyte which is squashing the tendon, they can go in an shave it off (which is also what it sounds like Ray had). Inflammation of muscles other than rotator cuff muscles can also mimic the symptoms (although treatment probably won't vary that much from the rest/anti- inflammatory stuff) Anyway .. that's probably heaps of information. Feel free to email me or ask on the digest if you have any specific questions :) Brian _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 18:14:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] American Open TKD Chip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net American Open Tae Kwon Do Championships February 5, 2005 Registration 7:30 AM Competition 9:30 AM Life University 1269 Barclay Circle SE. Marietta, Georgia 30066 Tourny Director: Min Suk Song 404.320.7010 More info: 770-321-9965 http://www.wtkdsong.com MasterSong@aol.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:53:41 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: sword cutting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "The cutting of the tatami mats was intentional...???? :-)" ____________________________ i think klaas might be kidding, but i'll go ahead and bite... klaas, slender tatami mats are rolled into a cylinder and placed, vertically, onto a short post. the post only goes up partway through the tatami cylinder. then one practises technique by slicing the tatami mat cylinder in halves or thirds. hope that makes sense :) take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 22:40:51 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] JAMA URL Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, Thanks for the web site info. John --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest