Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 17:15:17 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #524 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Foot Pain (johnd_wallace@comcast.net) 2. Guidance (Brian Locke) 3. Foot Pain (Simpson, John) 4. Karate/Kong Soo Do (Charles Richards) 5. Knee chambers, revisited (Ray Terry) 6. SBD/TSD etc (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 7. Re: Foot Pain (Bill H.) 8. su bak (Ray Terry) 9. learning from books, DVD's etc.. (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 10. Re: Names and numbers (Bruce Sims) 11. [Eskrima] Left-handers win in hand-to-hand combat (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: johnd_wallace@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:31:06 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Foot Pain Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Jye (does that rhyme?) The foot pain you're describing sounds like plantar fascitis. The plantar fascia is a sheet of tough, canvas-like tissue that runs from your heel to your toe-knuckles and helps distribute the load of your bodyweight across the whole foot. The most common symptom of plantar fasciitis is heel pain when taking the first steps after getting out of bed or after sitting for a long time. Stiffness and pain may lessen after taking a few steps but often worsen as the day progresses. Pain may be most intense when climbing stairs or standing on your toes or after long periods of standing. Treatment includes rest, ice, anti-inflammatory drugs, stretching exercises, and shoe inserts (like arch supports, but more strongly constructed). There are any number of reasons for getting it, but sufferers tend to fall into two categories: the obese and athletes. I gather you're a member of the latter category :) People with weird gaits, high arches or flat feet are also prone to it. My wife has suffered from this off and on over the last several years. It usually takes a few months to clear up. John Wallace 2nd Dan, TKD Fremont, CA (append the usual caveats, and exhortations to see a doctor) --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:36:50 -0500 From: Brian Locke To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Guidance Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, I am a Second Dan in WTF TKD. I have recently moved from NH to FLA. I am very proud to be a TKD Martial Artist but would like to continue my journey under the guidance of a Hapkido instructor. Can any one recommend a school in the Palm Bay/Melbourne area? I still study TKD every day but feel the need to incorporate Hapkido into my life. Thanks to all, Brian Locke blocke@cbosdirect.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 14:44:00 -0500 From: "Simpson, John" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Foot Pain Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye Nigma wrote on 12/8/04: "On the topic of foot pain...I was wondering if anyone else experiences this: At certain times on the bottom side of my foot, I get this sharp strain/pain. On my right foot, if I do something like jump rope where I have to land on my toes, that is typically when I feel that pain. It feels like something (going the length of my foot) is being pulled. The pain occurs right under my foot in the center of my foot. I also get it when I walk at times. It's hard to describe, but if you trace your foot on some paper and then draw lines going from the toes to the heel, the pain feels like one of those 'lines' is being strained. Anyone familiar with this?" I have suffered through exactly what you describe and it was diagnosed by an orthopaedic surgeon as plantar fasciitis or heel spur syndrome. >From what I have been told this is an inflammation of the plantar fascia running on the underside of the foot and which is caused by micro tears in the fascia that result from long periods of overuse. It apparently is common in athletes whose activities require a lot of pushing off with the feet and similar activities that place stress on the arch of the foot. In my case, the problem developed in the left foot which is the pushing foot used in kumdo (Korean version of kendo). The problem sometimes will resolve with stretching or, if you can wear shoes, with the use of an orthotic which provides arch support. In my case, the problem was resolved with a cortisone shot which has allowed me to operate relatively pain free for about two years. John Simpson --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:58:27 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Karate/Kong Soo Do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read "Soo Bahk Do is just another name for Tang Soo Do, or more specifically Hwang Kee's copyrighted version of Tang Soo Do / Korean Karate. In reality MDK is the name of the school / lineage, not the name of the style." MC Reply, Ray I knew you would catch this, but I'll add a twist. One can distinguish Soo Bahk Do from Tang Soo Do. SBD includes the practice of Chil Sung and Yuk Rho Hyungs. It is copywritten and Hwang Kee is the Do Ju Nim (with Hwang, H.C. as his designated Sa Ja Nim) Tang Soo Do is just another way of saying Karate/Kong Soo Do. YIJD, MC --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 14:09:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Knee chambers, revisited Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The kick chamber topic got me thinking about old times and refreshed my memory a bit. FWIW, the first time I saw (or noticed) the knee forward chamber was, as I mentioned, in 1984. But that was not the first time I saw a knee forward chamber for a roundhouse kick. That would have occurred when I moved from TSD MDK to TKD MDK & HKD c1976. The first time -I- learned the strategy of starting many kicks (front, side, axe, roundhouse, heel kick, etc) from the front kick chamber, so as to disguise the kick, was in 1984. That aside, I started going thru my library looking for when I would first find that strategy documented in print. Some of the books I examined were: The Chuck Norris Karate System, Norris, 1973 Better Karate for Boys, Sihak Henry Cho, 1970 Taeguek, Pu Gill Gwon, 1984 Hwarang Do, Joo Bang Lee, 1978 Hapkido, Bong Soo Han, 1974 Hapkido, Joon M. Jee, 1970s ?? Moo Duk Kwan, Richard Chun, 1975 Taekwon-Do, Choi Hong Hi, 1965 Taekwondo Poomse, WTF, 1975 Korean Karate, Duk Sung Son, 1968 Tang Soo Do (Soo Bahk Do) Vol 1, Hwang Kee, 1978 Karate-Do Kyohan, Funakoshi, 1973 Korean Hapkido, Kwang Sik Myung, 1976 Taekwon-Do, Y.K. Kim, 1983 Of the above, in only two places did I find the knee forward kicking chamber consistently used... in Chun's 1975 Moo Duk Kwan book and in Lee's 1978 Hwarang Do book. Chun shows the two methods as alternatives. Lee only shows Hwarangdo kicks from this knee forward chamber. All others show karate style kicks and knee chambers. But admittedly it isn't all that easy to tell in some cases given the nature of static pictures, etc. Given that Lee shows a consistent a knee forward front kick chamber to his kicks, similar to how Gm Ji executes his kicks, I thought I'd call Gm Ji for his input. Gm Ji indicated that this was the kicking approach he learned from his kicking instructor, Taoist Lee, c1957. (He wanted me to clearly specify to folks that Taoist Lee was not Monk Lee as apparently some have indicated.) The kicking style he learned from Taoist Lee was Sam Rang Do Tek Gi. I -suspect- that Gm JB Lee learned a similar strategy from his monk instructor or he learned it from Gm Ji or elsewhere. As to the rest of the question... exactly how or who brought this strategy into the Korean Karate arts and when, well... perhaps that is a question for someone like Dr. Kimm. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 16:35:11 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] SBD/TSD etc Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir; Tang Soo Do is a generic term exactly like the term Karate. Won Kuk Lee Kwan Jang Nim used this name in the Chung Do Kwan. Hwang Kee adopted this name in the Moo Duk Kwan because it was recognizable. It was recognizable because the Japanese occupation left native Koreans speaking and reading Japanese, and they had very little knowledge of their own history by the time WW II was over. So when they saw the characters for Tang Soo Do/Karate they knew what it was. Hwang Kee originally named the style he taught Hwa Soo Do, and for the afore mentioned reasons many did not recognize what it was. As Ray said the name Moo Duk Kwan (Kwan meaning school or institute) as well as Ji Do Kwan, Chung Do Kwan of the five original Kwans/Schools were the name of the School, not the style, although styles were associated with the particular Kwans and there heads. Tang Soo Do eventually became recognized as Moo Duk Kwan. This is agued because the name Tang Soo Do is generic, but by definition everyone here teaching Hapkido, Yudo, Tae Kwon Do, or any other Korean Martial arts could be called Tang Soo Do. The are not because Tang Soo Do has become known as a specific system associated with the Moo Duk Kwan which was founded by Hwang Kee Kwan Jang Nim. Soo Bahk comes from the Moo Yei Do Bo Tong Ji as the name of the martial arts practiced centuries ago in Korea. the Name Soo Bahk Do was created by Hwang Kee Kwan Jang Nim in an attempt to connect with Korean History. Hwang Kee Kwan Jang Nim added "Do" to the name Soo Bahk, Soo Bahk Ki, Soo Bahk Hee and registered it with the Korean Government in 1960. The original question here was "...there are chung do kwan, ji do kwan, kang duk won forms of tae kwondo... what are the specific forms of tang soo do.." The answer is All of these used the name Tang Soo Do originally. After the unification, the only one of the original five kwans using the name Tang Soo Do was Hwang Kee's Moo Duk Kwan. This is why Tang Soo Do became known as a specific style, the one Hwang Kee was teaching at the school called Moo Duk Kwan I am sure I have stirred the nest, but I believe all I have said is accurate. To say that Soo Bahk Do is just another name for Tang Soo Do is wrong. Soo Bahk Do (Hand -Strike-Way) and Tang Soo Do ("Tang" Dynasty- Hand- Way) are associated to the same Grand Master but what is taught by the Tang Soo Do schools today is not the same as what is taught by Soo Bahk Do today. They look similar because most Tang Soo Do schools linage includes Hwang Kee but over the last ten years or so they have grown distinctly different. JC --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:17:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Bill H." To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Foot Pain Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye, that sounds like Plantar Fasciitis, inflamation of the fascia, which is the connective tissue that runs along the bottom of the feet. Bill Howells, St Louis, MO http://www.apma.org/s_apma/doc.asp?TRACKID=&CID=146&DID=9408 Message: 4 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 04:58:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Foot Pain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On the topic of foot pain...I was wondering if anyone else experiences this: At certain times on the bottom side of my foot, I get this sharp strain/pain. On my right foot, if I do something like jump rope where I have to land on my toes, that is typically when I feel that pain. It feels like something (going the length of my foot) is being pulled. The pain occurs right under my foot in the center of my foot. I also get it when I walk at times. It's hard to describe, but if you trace your foot on some paper and then draw lines going from the toes to the heel, the pain feels like one of those 'lines' is being strained. Anyone familiar with this? Jye __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:52:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] su bak Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FWIW... On the topic of Su Bak, as far as I know the only reference we have to it is just a brief mention in book four of the Muye Dobo Tongji, in the Kwon Bup section. It mentions that "The king watched the fist fighting (su bak) and archery contests". It then goes on the mention in a note that "it is recorded that su bak is a martial art contest of wrestling". Seems somewhat contradictory, but then I guess if one watches the current day UFCs we sometimes see a wrestling contest and someimes you see a striking contest, depending on the two players. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:17:38 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] learning from books, DVD's etc.. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net “ … like the guy learning from books. … I get email often about someone who attended dan ranking through a book or seminar. My only advice is to find a qualified hapkido teacher and start over as a white belt. If they hold rank in another art…” I agree with this advice about finding a qualified hapkido teacher and start over as a white belt. Having said that, I believe people can learn a lot from books and a good example is Hwang Kee, the founder of TSD MDK. Today, we have DVDs that are another excellent learning tool. It is my opinion that a person, who has learned it from books, DVD's, etc. and can properly demonstrate all required black belt skills or perform the proper skills at a black belt level, should be promoted or recognized as a black belt within a short period of time. IMHO there should be some recognition for the level of skills they have obtained and they should be promoted to the appropriate level within a short time. What is your view on this matter? Thanks John --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:52:16 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Names and numbers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jere: I have to admit that had I any confusion about things you definitely seemed to have cleared it up for me. Apparently, according to your post, we will all be able to communicate as equals regarding the more technical aspects of Hapkido just as soon as we adopt some one persons taxonomy. OK. Everybody has to use mine. :-) But of course, you don't want to learn my terminology, and Michael (Rowe) wants to use ICHF. Alain and Hal, Rudy and Jeff, Joo Bang Lee and Ji Han Jae all think their taxonomy is right on the money and so does every other mother's son who gets out on the mat. Nor have you addressed the matter that even numbering systems vary as in comparing KSW's to Kimm's to Ji's to Myung's. But I do appreciate you letting me know why I have not been able to have a technical discussion with folks at the Internationale. Apparently this will be possible just as soon as I and everyone else start learning JR-s numbering system, yes? However, the actual reason I am taking time to write this post at all is that I might wonder out loud if you appreciate how EXCLUSIONARY your take is for the average Hapkido practiioner. You see, while YOU may have an affiliation and "I" may have an affiliation, there are a lot of people who don't or have an affiliation that is not getting their needs met. What drew me to the Internationale was not the food, and not the drinking. What drew me was the potential to discuss Korean martial arts with people who purportedly shared that interest. I was thinking that it might be a service to organize a common taxonomy among ourselves to help that along. And if noone is interested its not as though I don't have other things to do, 'kay? But please don't tell me that things will function just fine as soon as everyone uses the nomenclature of some single system you have identified as optimal. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 18:11:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] [Eskrima] Left-handers win in hand-to-hand combat Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Interesting post from the Eskrima Digest forum. Ray ======================================================= List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , Here's an article on left-handers and survival rates : "Left-handers win in hand-to-hand combat " http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996773 From personal experience in martial arts training, I acknowledge the south paw advantage. This article is also interesting in that data have been gathered to demonstrate that the incidence of left-handedness varies in populations. In the past, many sources cited a 5-11% incidence of left-handedness, with 10% being the most popular figure, according to my memory. This study lists populations with a low of 3% and a high of 27%. Wow. However, I'm not convinced by the causation of the left-handedness by levels of violence. One could just as easily equate violence, including reproductive violence, with left-handedness. That is, if left-handers are innately more violent and the circumstances exist for large scale violence, there will be more breeding performed by left-handers. This is my hypothetical counter to the conclusion of the article above, not my personal opinion about left-handedness. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest