Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 06:05:16 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #531 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Martial arts students compete in international event (Ray Terry) 2. More Muye (Ray Terry) 3. Hanoi Int'l taekwondo tournament (Ray Terry) 4. Learning from books & Young Dans (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 5. Re: Re: JR black belts (Dante James) 6. RE: Hapkido Seminar with Master Whalen (Master Lugo) 7. Re: young dans (Kevin Luttrell) 8. Re: young dans and black belt (Craig Zeigler) 9. "Master" Yi Duk Moo, Park Je-Ga, and Pak Dong-Soo (A. Boyd) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:23:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Martial arts students compete in international event Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Local martial arts students compete in international event Thursday, December 9, 2004 4:22 PM EST The Northeast Georgian Several students from the Allison Hapkido Academy in Cornelia recently competed in the First International Tang Soo Do Championships in Orlando, Fla. The international competition was the first for the local martial arts students. All of the local contestants medaled at the competition. Master James Allison, who was the highest-ranking Master present at the event, said "while these competitions do not make them world champions, these medals they brought home start them on the road to future international and world rankings, that ultimately lead to a world championship title." In the Forms category, Sheldon Holman picked up a bronze medal in the 6th-3rd Gup division for 7-8-year-olds, with Quillan Jacobs earning a competition medal. Joshua Craig won a gold medal in the 6th-3rd Gup 12-14-year-old division, while Jeremy Craig earned a bronze medal in the 9-10-year-old 6th-3rd Gup group. Jamie Walker won the gold medal in the 6th-3rd Gup adult division, while Lorena Jacobs was awarded a competition medal in the adult division. In 2nd Gup Cho Dan Bo division, Sara Guyton won a silver medal in the 13-16-year-old division; Andrew Glenn won a bronze medal in the 13-16-year-old division; Matthew Guyton won a bronze medal in the 11-12-year-old class; and Griff Allison earned a competition medal in the 8-9-year-old class. In the Black Belt class, Brian Myers won a bronze medal in the adult class and Gabriel Ram was awarded a competition medal in the 13-16-year-old division. In the Weapons class, Sara Guyton won a gold medal in the Fans competition in the 11-15-year-old group; Matthew Guyton won silver in the Nun Chaku competition in the 11-15-year-old group; and Andrew Glenn won a bronze medal in the Staff competition in the 11-15-year-old group. In the 6th-3rd Gup sparring category, Joshua Craig won a gold medal in the 13-year-old class; Jeremy Craig won a silver medal in the 9-12-year-old class; Quillan Jacobs won a bronze medal in the 8-year-old division; and Sheldon Holman earned a competition medal in the 8-year-old class. In the 2nd Gup Cho Dan Bo sparring category, Andrew Glenn won a gold in the 14-16-year-old group and Griff Allison won a bronze medal in the 9-10-year-old division. In the 8th-5th Gup sparring competition for adult women, Lorena Jacobs won a gold and Jamie Walker won the silver. Juan Iymatahlia won a gold medal in the 4th-3rd Gup men's sparring competition. In the Black Belt sparring competition, Gabriel Ram won a bronze medal in the 12-14-year-old class and Brian Myers earned a competition medal in the men's division. "The covey of medals brought home by these dedicated students is a world class example of self discipline, excellent training and the love of Hapkido martial arts," said James Allison. "Those choosing to continue to the world championships will be the future leaders of tomorrow's new Hapkido generation." For more information about Hapkido, contact Allison at Allison Hapkido Acadmey at 776-1026. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:27:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] More Muye Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FWIW... >From the coverleaf of Sang H. Kim's excellent translation of Muye Dobo Tongji. "According to historic documents, archery was the only offically sanctioned martial art practiced by soldiers during the early years of the Yi Dynasty (1392-1910), a period during which the practice of martial arts was looked down upon and generally discouraged. After the Japanese invasion (1592-1598), King Sunjo (1567-1608) acquired a Chinese martial art manual called Kihyo Shinsu written by Chuk Kye-kwang of the Ming Dynasty. He took a personal interest in the arts and subsequently invited the Ming military officers for a demonstration of their fighting arts. The king ordered his military officer Han Kyo to compile six fighting methods for further study. They were later published collectively under the title Muye Jebo (Martial Arts Illustrations). During the reign of King Youngjo (1724-1776), the publication Muye Jebo was revisted and renamed Muye Shinbo (Martial Arts New Illustrations) with twelve additional fighting methods added. It was King Jungjo (1776-1800) who added six more fighting methods and completed the Muye Dobo Tongji (Comprehensive Illunstrated Manual of Martial Arts) in 1790. He intended to strengthen the national military forces by training soldiers daily and systematically. It is interesting to note that they included not only Chinese fighting methods in the manual but also the Japanese sword methods which had been totally ignored at the start of the dynasty. According to his writings, King Jungjo believe that, "Through diligently practicing these methods and mastering strategy, the soldiers protecting the capital and the military officers will become agile warriors and loyal soldiers who will not abandon their country. My intention of publishing this expanded volume of military tactics is to record this instruction for posterity." About the Authors Yi Duk-moo and Park Je-ga were military scholars and advisors to King Jungjo during the 18th Century (Yi Dynasty) in Korea. They compiled the material in this book from many sources, interpreting and translating documents from the Chinese and Japanese military manuals as well as Korean historical records. They also tested and adapted the skills of the Chinese and Japanese warriors to suit the needs of the contemporary Korean military forces. When completed, their work spanned five books. It was made part of the Royal Library and used as the basis for military training in the Korean branches of the infantry, cavalry and navy during the Yi Dynasty. The Muye Dobo Tongji was the final military manual published during the period." Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:33:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Hanoi Int'l taekwondo tournament Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net RoK auto company sponsors Hanoi Int'l taekwondo tournament 12/10/2004 -- 22:22(GMT+7) Hanoi (VNA) - The GM Daewo auto company will provide 300 million VND (roughly 20,000 USD) for the Hanoi international taekwondo tournament, the GM Daewo Cup 2004, bringing its total funding for national and Hanoi Taekwondo tournaments to 200,000 USD since 2000. The tournament, the 11th of its kind, will take place at Trinh Hoai Duc stadium from Dec. 17-18. As many as 142 athletes of 15 teams from China, the Republic of Korea, Laos, the US, Viet Nam, and other countries have registered to compete in different weight categories. The host country Viet Nam has three teams taking part in the tournament. Though taekwondo has been developed in Viet Nam and the country won a silver medal at the Olympic in Sydney in 2000, experts said that the Vietnamese teams will have difficulty competing with rivals from the RoK, China, and Thailand. Some RoK, Thai and Vietnamese referees have been invited to officiate the tournament. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 21:49:30 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Learning from books & Young Dans Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce Thanks for your comments. “Until such time as we can get on the same page regarding what we do and how we do it this issue will keep coming back. This is because people who wade-in on this subject are coming from many different value systems….” I agree that we will have many different opinions on this topic. Opinions are based on individual's judgment, which is driven by one's values, knowledge, experience and their own self-interest including money (fees), as well as, many other factors. I respect the many difference opinions and often learn something from the various views. I do not agree that we need to be all on the same page because I believe diversity can be a good thing. We need to recognize that one size does not fit all. One MA will not meet everyone's needs. One standard will not be accepted by all. Due in part to the fact that the participants are from many different age groups, body types, physical fitness level, etc., in MA. In addition, there are many different reasons for practicing MA. Bottom line is that I do not expect there to be only one answer (opinion) and that is one of the things that makes the DD interesting to read. “I don't teach kids because, frankly, they can't cash the checks their little egos (and that of their parents) write…” I enjoy teaching kids. It is definitely more challenging than teaching adults, but I believe it can be more rewarding (not to mean financial) in many ways. It is important to help young people grow up to be good citizen and MA provides a lot of good lessons for life. You should give teaching kids a try. I should note that I do not teach for money , but assist at my instructor's school. I also coach the kids TKD demo team at the school. Thanks John --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Dante James" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: JR black belts Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:44:43 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Digest, thanx for the feedback. I don't believe I offered a definition of Black Belt. I asked has the definition of Black Belt evolved over time and if so, how so, and whether it was particular to TKD. I didn't say that the martial aspect was the only critical aspect, but you are right, I do believe it is a critical component. It would exclude anyone from wearing a Black Belt if they do not practice it with a mindset of, and understanding that they are learning something which has as its essence two things, development of the self through the medium of one's hands and feet, AND the mindset to be able to hurt someone if you need to with the understanding of the mechanics, ethics and legal ramifications of doing so. Therefore my definition does not include being able to break someone into smaller pieces. I believe I said that was a traditional view of the masses. So I guess that is my partial definition. I will not, no I can not, have a discussion with a 6 year old, about the concept of killing someone. There is a reason no state in the country can convict a 7 year old of murder. They are incapable of forming the intent, because they don't understand the complexities of the action and its total ramifications. And it is as difficult to explain in a mature manner, an understanding of all that adults can understand MuDo to be. Can they understand at their lever, absolutely. Does that make them a Black Belt, well I guess that was my question. Comparing them to other kids their age doesn't help in a conversation about the definition of a Black Belt. Please understand me, I'm all for junior Black Belts, when it is understood that they are junior, with parts of the whole left out. My problem is when adults end up being the same thing as junior Black Belts and don't even know it. thanx for the responses and I really do appreciate the discussion because it is about who we are and how we do it. Peace Dante Dante J. James, Esq. www.denverata.com www.kimartialarts.com Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Luttrell" To: Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:31 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: JR black belts > Dear Sir, > > My Definition of black belt is quite a bit different than yours I think. > What about a 60 or 70 year old student, or a handicapped student? A black > belt is someone who starts at a specific point in their training life and > trains toward learning more than fighting skills, even a 15 or 20 year > practitioner can get his but kicked in a confrontation. He just has alot > more training and experience against confrontation. He has learned how to > overcome obsticles and use resources to make his situation improved or > completely overcome the challenge. from where he started in his training > he has trained his body, mind and spirit to a point of self sufficiency > and integrity to deserve the title black belt. But to say that a black > belt should be able to break his attacker into little pieces, lol. > Even the most skilled black belt can lose a battle, it happens every day. > But in my opinion, the mentality that leads people to believe that a black > belt is about purely physical skills and without those skills they don't > deserve to be called a black belt, degrades the rank. > Just as a larger opponent can generate great amounts of power with little > skill and overcome a certain obsticle, with little or no speed or > flexibility. A much smaller person in the same situation can overcome the > same obsticle, generate the same power compensating his lack of size with > his speed, flexibility and strategy. Each person must explore his self and > his natural talents and train to improve his weakness, all the while > training, and hardening his spirit and his mind to handle situations as > they come. I am sure most senior black belts have had the experience of > sparring with people who are more advanced in years, obviously weakened by > age and time passed, obvious to everyone that the younger stronger faster > student could beat easily, and to everyone suprise the older, weaker, more > advanced person handles him with ease. > Now, I use Poom, or Junior black belt system just as you. Under 16 is Poom > for us. But a blanket statement about Tae Kwon Do as a Style is wrong. I > agree that there are instructors, not only in TKD, but every style, that > promote before its time. No doubt, thats the fact of it and it doesn't > have a thing to do with TKD as a style. It's purely about the integrity of > the instructor, and the people who supervise him. Just as in everything we > do, Its the integrity of the people and not the art itself. > > > > > Master Kevin Luttrell > Director > The Martial Artist Foundation > Springfield, Mo. > > Visit The Martial Artist Foundation Official Website at > http://www.sporttkd.com > or join The Martial Artist Foundation Yahoo Group for free and keep up on > Sport Martial Arts events:= > "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themartialartistfoundation/join"> > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: 11 Dec 2004 03:38:34 -0000 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "Master Lugo" Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Hapkido Seminar with Master Whalen Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Black Belt Fitness Center Proudly Presents Hapkido Seminar with Master Hal Whalen Hapkido Chun Do Kwan US Representative Date: April 9th 2005 Time: Saturday 12:00 to 6:00PM Place: Black Belt Fitness Center 54-12 31st Avenue Woodside, NY 11377 Dress: Loose Fitting Clothing or Uniform Pre-Registration by 03/25/2005 Seminar $45.00 Registration accepted at the door. Please, no spectators. Certificate of Completion For more information, contact Master Lugo 718.204.1777 | BLACKBELTFITNESSCENTER.COM --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 20:34:41 -0800 (PST) From: Kevin Luttrell To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: young dans Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Sir, In reference to Young Dans not knowing the Essence of Black Belt, I agree with you. This is the reason for the Poom system. It is entirely possible for a young student to learn the required physical skills for black belt and not yet grasp the 'essence of black belt". I think it is kind of spiritual myself. similar to discovering your spirituality. After a path of discovery and training you discover what you really believe in your heart. But Its the experiences and the guidence you are exposed to that help you shape your heartfelt belief. Even then as you continue to study, train, expose yourself to a more broad sense of study you continue to mature and build a more solid foundation. Martial Arts Training is much the same. In the evolution of martial arts, you can see that today, martial arts are a recreation to the general public, becoming more and more a sport. Korea has popularized and spread the martial arts more than any other nation in history, due to the fact that they started the largest organized effort to spread their national sport to every other country in the world. Thats why there are 3 to 1 TKD studios compared to any other martial art. TKD has continued to evolve, change and flourish due to the positive effects training has on its recreational participants. The fact is most instructors who make their living via martial arts should be thankful that there has been a great movement to promote martial sport and Korea is largely responsible for that. Since martial arts have been introduced to the general public, you can see the shift from "tough Guy" martial arts mentality through the years to the present state where largely martial arts are promoted as a way to self-improvement. Regardless of people's attitudes, martial arts training of any style leads to setting aside self. Ego is lost and generally the "tough guy" mentality doesn't lead to that end. So I guess what I am saying again is that it all falls back on how you choose to use your training. I personally think that my young students benefit from the TKD curriculum and the training they undertake on the path to "black belt" and beyond. The benefits they aquire during the course of training far outweigh the self-defense aspect of their training. In my school information brochure this is how I introduce my philosophy to parents and students. "Traditional Taekwon-Do addresses a number of important issues facing both children and adults in today's educational and family systems. With the world changing and expanding so quickly, the ability to adapt to our fast moving culture is becoming increasingly difficult. Our Public Educational system makes a valiant attempt to meet the needs of our children, who we must recognize as the future of the human race. In times of old, the epitome of warriorhood was the ascendance to a higher level of thinking, managing emotions and choosing correct behavior befitting a warrior. The warrior was society's ideal person, living for all that was just and fair and dedicating one's life to the Taekwon-Do tenets of Courtesy Integrity, Perseverance, Self Control and Indomitable Spirit. Honor was a virtue to be measured by the quality to which one lived his life and how strictly he adhered to these tenets. In modern times, the warrior's code still exists in Traditional Martial Arts. The word "martial" denotes a military philosophy, which subscribes to the idea that the greatest way to achieve meaningful goals on a large scale is by mutual cooperation. Today's martial arts offer a variety of benefits and services to our young people who are struggling to adapt to confusing and chaotic times gangs, violence in the schools and more recently, murder of children by children. Although modern Traditional Taekwon-Do training was inspired by ancient warrior philosophies, the life and death strictness of the training hall have been transformed into a unique place of study, motivation and goal setting. Where once the warrior would spend his life perfecting martial virtues and deadly martial skills, today's warriors dedicate their lives to the perfection of character and the unification of the body, mind and spirit. The confidence gained by good physical health, self-defense skills and recognition from peers, parents and teachers is leading our youth on a path of excellence so rare in other venues. Even school sports, which are not always funded due to budget cuts, focus on the "team" effort. Although this is an important socialization asset, it does not focus on the multifaceted needs of the individual, which is so important when developing the characters and personalities of tomorrow's world leaders. Traditional Taekwon-Do offers a system of discipline for the unification of the body, mind and spirit. As with other martial arts, the attainment of warrior status is measured by the earning of the coveted "Black-Belt". There are nine levels of Black-Belt which take a lifetime of dedication to master. The Master level begins at 4th Degree and the Grandmaster levels are 8th and 9th degrees. The 1st Degree Black Belt (1st Dan) is seen as the beginning level of learning the "way". It is at this point that much of the basic tools are developed and honed to the sharpness needed to ascend to the higher levels of training. These higher levels include: 1. Strengthening the body, perfecting technical skill and timing and achieving the ability to perform a major portion of these skills as "second nature". 2. Strengthening the mind by forging a training regime of discipline, maintaining a regular schedule, teaching Taekwon-Do to others, and continued goal setting. This stage also emphasizes resisting the common weakness of the mind, which create unbalance. These may include overeating the consumption of alcohol, drugs, smoking, inappropriate and or uncontrolled emotions and actions unbecoming of a Black-Belt representative of the "Dojang" or Taekwon-Do School. If the mind is strong the body will follow. Traditional Taekwon-Do also focuses on spiritual development by offering a strict system of martial virtues, tenets, and by supporting the individual's spiritual practice or religion of choice. Taekwon-Do does not subscribe to any particular religion, but rather emphasizes the spiritual discipline and practices, respected by all major religions." I guess this is how I view "black belt" and the training before and after. Master Kevin Luttrell Director The Martial Artist Foundation Springfield, Mo. Visit The Martial Artist Foundation Official Website at http://www.sporttkd.com or join The Martial Artist Foundation Yahoo Group for free and keep up on Sport Martial Arts events:= "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themartialartistfoundation/join"> --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:34:07 -0500 From: Craig Zeigler To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] young dans and black belt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Boit Clinton Capt AF/DPMP wrote: >Seems like there is a new issue here..."what is a black belt?" Is it a person >who can defend themselves or is it more than that?? > >This discussion started with young dans, but many of the people posting >recently have been saying basically that if the person can't defend themselves >then they shouldn't be black belts. Well, sorry folks, but being a black belt >is more than just self-defense...which goes back to the first issue -- young >Dans usually don't understand what more is required than just throwing kicks >and punches. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > no, it is not the only thing, but it is one of the more important since that is what most people unfortunately perceive it as. To me, a major part of it is the maturity involved, and being able to keep a cool head. Also, respect for others, an understanding of yourself, and self confidence are paramount as well. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 03:54:23 -0500 (EST) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] "Master" Yi Duk Moo, Park Je-Ga, and Pak Dong-Soo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gladewater SBD put this information in a post: The MYDBTJ was written by Master Lee{Yi} Duk Moo in 1790. My questions: 1) Why do you believe that the compilers of the MYDBTJ were martial artists at all, much less master martial artists? Is it not more likely that they were academics? 2) Why do you feel that the kwon-bub material in the MYDBTJ, which is not presented as Su Bahk, could lead anyone of any era to develop something "close to" Su Bahk? What I mean by this is, the material in the manual is not su bahk, so using that material can not really lead a person to develop su bahk, can it? -Anthony Boyd ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest