Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:01:37 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #535 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Control (Denise) 2. Reply to Bruce (A. Boyd) 3. Re: Dr. Kimm's Hapkido Bible I / II (Bert Edens) 4. Re: names and numbers (ABurrese@aol.com) 5. Strikes (Rudy Timmerman) 6. opposite direction (Rudy Timmerman) 7. Stuff (Burdick, Dakin R) 8. Re: Re: MYTBTJ -- Clarification? (Ray Terry) 9. Re: MDK Rank (Christopher Spiller) 10. RE: names and control (J R Hilland) 11. Re: MYTBTJ (Bruce Sims) 12. Response on "Just Training" (mdealba@pacbell.net) 13. Re: MYTBTJ -- Clarification? (CStovall@nucorar.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Denise" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Control Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:44:30 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye said: > I started out really young punching close to an object without hitting it, very slowly gradually picking up speed and can now throw a very quick strike, kick, etc without actually hitting the target coming within an inch or less from the target...but my explanation is everything starts and ends with the mind. I use intense concentration and focus. IMHO, this is one of the major purposes and functions of traditional "one-step" training. Practicing various techniques with partners of various sizes and temperaments facilitates focus. Breaking objects facilitates using the necessary amount of power to make a technique "work." Just my dime on a Monday morning :-) Denise --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:25:52 -0500 (EST) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Reply to Bruce Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, I wrote an enormous post in reply to your responses to my two questions to JC[Gladewater SBD] and Ray's reaction you. I decided, based on history, not to send it. Suffice it to say that you have succeeded in annoying me by twisting my questions to some other purpose. I don't appreciate it. ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:35:13 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Bert Edens Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Dr. Kimm's Hapkido Bible I / II Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At 16:32 12/10/04, you wrote: >Hello Bert, >You can find many good Hapkido books including Dr. Kimm's at >www.Ryukyu.com >Keep in mind Dr. Kimm often brings many of his books to Master Wests >seminars and offers them at at better price. >Sincerely, >Kevin Janisse Greetings... Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions on where I might be able to get a copy of these... Ironically enough, it was seeing them for sale at the August Jackson event that prompted me to want to get them... Thanks again... **bows** - Bert Edens, II Dan TKD Springdale, Arkansas --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:02:48 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: names and numbers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>>Right you are, Alain. Everything you said is very important and we both know your students and your teacher are lucky to have you. Lets take what you shared a step farther. As long as your students communicate with each other and you and your instructor things are fine. What happens when they go into another school, or another system, to another teacher or some other event hosted by another art or lineage? How do they communicate intelligently about what they do and why when they are interacting with someone not of their own tradition? How does the system grow to become something more than what we were handed if we cannot discourse intelligently about what we do and why? Thoughts?<<<< ************************** Bruce, I agree that it is important to discuss the arts intelligently with others, but remeber, Hapkido and other arts are physical. Just as Sharon mentioned, when we have seen each other at seminars in Jackson and Colorado, we don't have problems even though we come from different schools and do things a bit differently and in different orders. One thing we do, we get on the mat, or out in the yard, or whereever and show each other. (Heck, there was a place near Jackson where we were out by the tree stumps with Lee with the three of us showing and illustrating the different basic techniques from our three schools) I think it is unrealistic to think we must discuss the arts without showing the arts in some way as well. Sure, in e-mail we don't have ability to show things, but many of us get our ideas, thoughts, and even techniques across through this forum as well. Albeit, not as good as being there, but when is it ever? Again, I admire what you are attempting to take on, but I wonder if it is really realistic to believe that one set of standards and terminology will be accepted by all... Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:26:42 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Strikes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > Do we use > the term "soo do" for "knifehand" meaning the way that > the hand is formed FOR the strike, or do we use "soo > do chigi" meaning (" astrike using the knifehand" or > "knifehand striking"). We have quite a ways to go, > yes? Thoughts? Hello Bruce: I am sure that you will do the right thing when it comes to copyrights:) FWIW, I always use the short form for Korean names if possible. I can see where most people who already have terminology will continue to use their own; however, I can also see that new people, who may not want to be affiliated with these orgs, might need to have something that closely follows what most people use. From what I read, this seems to be your intent, and I can see a use for it for the many folks out there who still call their Korean martial arts Instructors "Sensei" and their schools Dojos:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:37:08 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] opposite direction Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Lois writes: > As a 54 year-old coloured belt, I feel that by the time I reach 2nd > dan, I’m going to be less than 5 years away from toilet training (in > the opposite direction) lol. > Lois (with tongue firmly in cheek) You made my day Lois: Now I'll sit here and worry about who will take on the job of "opposite direction" training for an old dog like me. Especially since I've been told you can't teach an old dog new tricks. I best keep an eye out for "Depend" sales lol. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:04:47 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Loved the "Buddha will provide" piece you did Michael! I took a look at the terminology as well -- thanks! Take care, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: MYTBTJ -- Clarification? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:28:16 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ".....Yet you -continue- to claim that others are > wrong or uninformed without > directly addressing the issue at hand. Not very > interesting to read, but rather telling on your > part....." > > Ok. Lets get this cleared up before we go any farther. > What exactly is your issue? Are you looking for > information or are you taking exception to how "I" am > representing information? Bruce, the problem continues to be your piss-poor attitude. You would rather take a statement or question completely out of context so that you can negatively rant and rave along a tangent instead of keeping to the discussion at hand. Just like in the portions of your post deleted here... rants and raves which have nothing what-so-ever to do with the discussion at hand. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:33:56 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: MDK Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Message: 2 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" >> To: "the_dojang" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:43:42 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] MDK Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FYI In the Moo Duk Kwan HC Hwang was promoted to 9th Dan by Hwang Kee Kwan Jang Nim. He is the only 9th Dan ever promoted by the founder of Moo Duk Kwan. JC<< That's pretty interesting, imo. But it brings up a few questions I have. 1) Did Hwang Kee ever claim a specific dan ranking? Gen. Choi claimed the rank of ninth dan in Taekwon-Do but other MA founders seem never to have claimed rank in their style (for example, Morihie Ueshiba had ranks in Daito-Ryu, but was not ranked in Aikido because as the founder he was outside the ranking system - same for his son and grandson). 2) If Hwang Kee Kwan Jang *did* claim rank was he elevated to "10th dan" after dying? I first saw this when H.U. Lee of the ATA died so it got me wondering how common a practice it is in Korean MA's. Taekwon, Chris PS I have never met H.C. Hwang Kwan Jang nim, but from what I have heard and read he seems like he's the real deal. He ever give seminars open to non Soo Bahk Do members? (Heck, I'm a Taekwon-Do guy!) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:03:16 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: names and control Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Master Timmerman is way down there in the warm and tropical south part of Canada. :) --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:29:06 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: MYTBTJ Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Anthony: "......Sadly, the way he did it hurt my sensitive Canadian feelings........" Oh, don't be such a baby!!! :-) Seriously, though, you really hit the nail on the head. The two points I see coming to the fore most often is that either people want to discount the MYTBTJ altogether or they want to nit-pick about it. In either case what I would like to see is people READING the book first and then making their comments. Sorry I had to use your post as a "bully pulpit" but I think the work is very important and worth every bit of discussion we can give its contents. Now, let me back up on one point. As I said I don't know that its important that the final compiler was or was not a martial art person in their own right. As a court member sanctioned by the king to perform a task the court librarian would have had the authority to seek advise from just about anyone he wanted to. However, the same cannot be said of people who later decided to translate the work. For instance, Kim's book played rather loose with aspects of the BON KUK GUM BUP by confusing the use of left and right footing as well as omitting a couple of techniques entirely. As a swordsman he would have had no problem had he understood the excution of coiling with a ye-do. Also his framing of such techniques as "An Jase" (aka "Wild Goose Technique") leaves the uninformed with the idea that the coiling is somehow separate from the actual thrust. In like manner, Kim also was inconsistent in his translation of similar but not identical techniques. (See: "Rear Strike"--- "Hoo Il Kyukse", "Rear Attack", and "Rear Thrust"). If these are the kinds of things you suspect might happen as the librarian was compiling the book I am not sure that would have been a problem, and technically the officers using the manual to guide their instruction of the corvee would have adjusted things anyhow. Where I get concerned is the possible difficulty a person might have in following the material having been translated from the Korean into English. In THAT case I suggest that there is every reason to have benefit in a skilled MA doing the translating. Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "mdealba@pacbell.net" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:34:00 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Response on "Just Training" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Clay, Very well said. I agree completely. It is very good to hear polite, yet insightful comments on topics such as this. Keep up the good work Sir. Grand Master De Alba -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . --__--__-- Message: 13 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:38:59 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: MYTBTJ -- Clarification? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> First and foremost...LMFAO at this whole conversation. Second, what I am getting is the fact that most people would like to train under a real, flesh-and-blood instructor who has ties to traditions that still exist. How is someone supposed to go about learning all this archaic battlefield stuff? Look at the illustrations and wing it? Study similar Chinese arts that have survived to the present time, and then try to retrofit those techniques and movements back over the still pictures from the MYTBTJ? Or, are there actually people who have learned this stuff via an unbroken chain of tradition? The bottom line is this...people can only study what's available, and most of us prefer live human instruction as opposed to waxing nostalgic about some "manual" that has little to do with the civilian oriented arts that make up 99% of modern KMA. Hello?!?!?!? <<>> Actually, things appear to be exactly opposite the way you're trying to present them. I'd say the vast majority of KMA's are carrying on what's been passed on to them by their seniors. YOU, however, seem to be implying that everyone else has the wool pulled over their eyes and you somehow have a more legitimate take on what REALLY encapsulates Korean Martial Tradition. By the way...Ray's right. You're dodging the issue. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest