Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:21:14 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #5 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on behemoth2.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. footwork and stepping (michael tomlinson) 2. Re: Need a bit of clarification..... (Bruce Sims) 3. Tae Kwon Do hits the stage (Ray Terry) 4. Re: Hapkido in Dallas (ISA Headquarters) 5. Re: Getting old(er) (ABurrese@aol.com) 6. RE: age and training (Howard Spivey) 7. Re: Footwork/distance - locks - what comes first, Dallas HKD, most useful (David Beck) 8. Jere Hilland on learning the art (A. Boyd) 9. (no subject) (Giancarlo Fusco) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:05:02 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] footwork and stepping Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net GM Petermann writes: <>> GM Petermann I would love to get the opportunity to work out and pick your Hapkido brain someday. GM Connard has told me about you on a few occasions and has nothing to say but great things. I am certain your Hapkido knowledge and training is top notch. If you ever visit Florida please let me know and we can get together if you are so inclined, you are always welcome wherever we are. Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:18:13 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Need a bit of clarification..... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jack: "......It seems to me (imho)that you would have to overcome the muscle memory you have built in previously to learn the correct timing/distance aspect. Im looking at it from a point of footwork training done in Pekiti-Tirsia Kali where the basic footwork at the beginning is the same exact movement done when performing advanced bladed combat. There is no need to learn a different movement, you've already performed it thousands of times......" Help me understand you point of view, Jack? Maybe we have very different ideas of what Hapkido is about. When I went to Korea in September, Dojunim Kim started me out with 10th and 9th guep material. Effectively these are techniques I have been doing for the greater part of my Hapkido career albeit with some different emphasis. Certainly, when I left he gave me an emboidered black belt, but my sense is this was a gift for having extended myself to come to Korea to train. The certificate I recieved identifies me as an 8th guep in hapki-yu-sool. I have absolutely no problem with this, but my sense is that you might, though I am not sure. The same went for my sword classes. I went through the guep ranks and tested for each of those the same as I tested for my dan ranks. This was in the late 90-s after I had already been in martial arts since '73. As far as I know this is the way that it is done. The only way that I can see your issue making sense is if I wanted to study some new art without having to accept that learning a new art means having to --- well--- LEARN A NEW ART. Even various styles of the Hapkido arts don't always put the same emphasis on the same things. I think Rudy (Timmerman) says it best when he mentions that he always takes a white belt with him wherever he goes and I have started to do the same thing since a white belt is what I wore the whole time I was in Korea. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:44:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Tae Kwon Do hits the stage Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tae kwon do hits the stage By Andrew Salmon International Herald Tribune Wednesday, January 5, 2005 SEOUL A martial arts master stamps so hard that the foundations of his house shake; a wizened old man with an apparently crippled back suddenly leaps into the air and performs a series of flying somersaults, and in the midst of an athletic ruckus, a walking stick is rammed into a posterior. These are just some of the elements of Korea's nonverbal comedy martial arts performance "Jump" - a show that its creators hope will leap onto the global stage next year and gain the international plaudits earned by another Korean nonverbal performance, 1997's "Nanta," (known internationally as "Cookin"'). "When I was in Italy, someone suggested, 'Why not make a show about tae kwon do?"' said Choi Chul Ki, the creator of "Jump," who was then directing a traveling production of "Nanta." "Nanta," a "Stomp"-inspired performance that added traditional Korean percussion beats to a frenetic comedy set in a kitchen, became a surprise hit at the Edinburgh Festival in 1999. More than 1.5 million people have seen the show in 15 countries; it now runs at two theaters in Seoul and is playing at the Minetta in New York. "Jump" marked its 500th Korean performance at Seoul's Sejong Cultural Center in December, and its creators are now looking abroad: Yegam, the company that produced it, is planning a Japan and China tour in April, has been invited for a run in Israel in May, and has booked the show into the Edinburgh Festival in August. The plot is simple. A family of zany martial artists inhabit a traditional house - the set - where they are subjected to the discipline of "grandpa," the idiosyncratic family patriarch, who insists on daily training sessions. As the show begins, the family is engaged in testing out a nerdy potential son-in-law who hopes to wed the pretty daughter, when two bumbling burglars enter the home. Neither set nor plot, however, is the performance's raison d'etre. Nor is genre: While 2001's "Tokebi Peung" (Goblin Storm) is still running, it has not matched the smash success abroad, and other Korean nonverbal performances, such as "UFO" and "Colorbar Show" have tanked. The creators of "Jump" are banking on the core elements of their show - physical comedy, martial arts and gymnastics - to seize international attention. "We want people to see 'Jump' as a kind of live-action Jackie Chan movie," said a cast member, Lee Sang Jun. That ambition could be an Achilles' heel. Before moving into modern action films, Chan's slapstick-heavy kung fu comedies, while huge in Asian markets, never gained anything beyond a cult audience in the West, and it is unclear how Western audiences will react to the yelling, buffoonery and exaggerated facial expressions that Koreans howl at in "Jump." But Jump's core differentiation as a show - its intensely physical blend of martial arts, gymnastics and Harold Lloyd-esque stunts - is stunning. It is here that the cast shines, in a range of exuberant physical set pieces ranging from gun fights and slow-motion fist fights to aerial acrobatics. The cast trained for two years in gymnastics and a variety of martial arts - tae kwon do and hapkido from Korean, wushu and Drunken Fist from China, and capoeira from Brazil. The exhausting physical regimen requires a host of doubles: "A lot of actors have injuries, so we need two and a half casts," said Kim Kyung Hoon, the producer. "Jump" places Korean marital arts in a new cultural context. "Traditionally, Korea's ruling class were scholars, and looked down upon martial arts," said Steve Capener, who has written widely on tae kwon do. In addition, while Chinese and Korean martial arts are found in both traditional and modern performance culture, Korean martial arts are not. Despite the international popularity of tae kwon do as a self-defense system and a competitive sport, it is not culturally ingrained. Furthermore, Korean martial arts films have failed to develop a style of choreography distinct from Chinese or Japanese cinema. For aficionados, the show's biggest draw may be the style used by "Grandpa": taek kyun, Korea's traditional fighting art and a predecessor of tae kwon do. The art, which mixes graceful rhythmic movements with kicks high and low, has undergone a renaissance in Korea after being within one practitioner of extinction in the 1980s. But despite its new-found popularity here, it remains relatively unknown abroad. The varied combative moves and gymnastics routines in "Jump" are blended in the spectacular finale. As the actors ditch slapstick to display a series of choreographed routines in a darkened theater - then take turns literally running up the walls - audience jaws could be hitting the floor as hard as the tumbling actors' sinewy bodies. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "ISA Headquarters" To: Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:40:47 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido in Dallas Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all, As far as Dallas is concerned, you couldn't go wrong with Master Beck or Master John Murphy at http://www.mastermurphy.com/ I 'm a bit partial here though as I reccommend Master Murphy first and Master Beck second. Respectfully, George I. Petrotta ISA Director http://www.sungjado.org/ isahdq@sc.rr.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:15:09 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Getting old(er) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net GM West made some great points, as did Craig. There are those with many more years under their belts that move and do more than many younger people. Training, activity, and taking care of yourself are huge factors, as is the most important factor, your attitude. I've met GM West in Jackson, and I won't be the one saying anything about how old he is. :-) I also had the chance to meet Chuck Norris a few months ago. Norris was born in 1940, so that makes him going on 65. He doesn't look it, nor does he act or move like it. Maybe those young twins help him stay youthful. (BTW - He and his wife, along with Howard Jackson, were all very nice and it was a pleasure meeting them. Wish I could have spent more time talking to them) I also have a friend here in Missoula who just recieved his 50 year pin from the Montana State Bar. He started in Judo over 50 years ago, and practices Aikido today. Just last week I was with him at the gym and he was out there hitting the mat pretty hard. He joked that he used to get up faster, but he still goes down the same speed. The key is to do the best you can with what you have each and every day while living to the fullest! Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 18:15:29 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: age and training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net to sol, as a comment on craig stovall's response to your post about age and training... imo craig made several excellent points. i'll be 51 in less than 2 weeks, and i use own-body-weight exercises of the type craig mentions regularly. they have worked very well for me. i tried to go back to lifting fairly light free weights about 3 years ago, but for some reason (perhaps poor technique on my part) my shoulders and elbows were getting awfully sore. the own-body-weight exercises haven't caused me any soreness at all. i know i'm nowhere near as strong as i was when i was 25, but at least i think i've reversed the decline of lean muscle mass that craig mentions. i also agree with craig's thoughts on flexibility. flexibility not only improves your techniques (especially your kicking techniques, of course), it also makes you less susceptible to injury from torn muscles. just be sure to do the right stretches at the right time in your workouts... check www.stadion.com for some excellent free advice, and if you're willing to invest less than $30, get yourself a copy of tom kurz's "stretching scientifically." i'll be my next paycheck you won't regret it. finally, as to the comment (not craig, i don't think) about being able to run a six-minute mile... imo that's a pretty fast pace, even for somebody in their 20s! i ran track in high school (was a quarter-miler), and once managed to run the mile in something like 5:30... i thought i'd die before i crossed the finish line... and i was about 17 at the time, and in good shape (could do the quarter in right at 50 seconds). anyway, good luck in your ongoing training, and don't give up. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:10:33 -0800 (PST) From: David Beck To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Footwork/distance - locks - what comes first, Dallas HKD, most useful Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There's several things in this digest I want to respond to. First and quickest: Thanks to a couple of my students for suggesting me as a place in Dallas. There are some other knowledgeable folks around here too, I can point you to them if my location is too far away or my approach is not to her taste. But better to take that offline. Second, on what is the most useful: Craig, you had me ROFLMAO. MaryLouRetton-ryu rulez! Agreed with nearly every point. And even MLR-ryu will get you in better shape thus better able to run away so it does improve self-defense ability in some way shape or form. But... If it's claimed to be a martial art, it is claiming self-defense. If it doesn't address different ranges, different types of attacks, and different levels of acceptable responses; it's not a very good one. And of course it should address awareness and attitude from day 1, both more important and technique. On the footwork/distancing/grabs thread: Some schools start with kicking/punching aspects exclusively for a year or two before introducing grabs. From what I've heard GM Bong Soo Han's is like that. Some start with grabs exclusively and don't deal with the dynamics of defending strikes/kicks for a long time. My first teacher, Master Yong Chin Pak, does it that way at Iowa State. Or countless TKD schools adding some HKD (whether just calling it hosinsul or not) at black belt level. Both ways work -- eventually. But it seems silly to have the possibility of someone having trained for years getting pulverized by some attack they hadn't gotten to yet in the curriculum. The same problem is there with attack based curriculums, meaning at each belt rank level you are learning to deal with a particular kind of attack; ie lapel grabs at white belt, punches at green, kicks at red; whatever. Also, in today's world, few people are able to stick around long enough and train diligently enough to see the underlying repetition of principles. Whether you call it the same technique or not, the same concept (say an arm bar) works with very slight adjustments whether you get there starting from a wrist grab, from a shoulder grab, from a punch, from anywhere. So why not teach it that way from the beginning? You're going to need the thousands of reps to really master a technique, and how you deal with a particular attack at white belt level may obviously be different than at black belt; but you can very quickly gain enough tools for successful self-defense. I teach 5 (physical) concepts to my white belts: footwork, standing falls, the strike reaction of evasion, the grab reaction of circular motion escapes, and forefist striking. So they have some chance of putting themselves in better position and distancing, protecting themselves from a takedown, dealing with any kick or strike, dealing with any sort of grab, and being able to hit something effectively. Of course it takes a while, I said *some* chance :) The point is they are familiar with ALL kinds of attacks quickly. They don't have to deal with all the nuances of an S-lock (aka nikkyo, aka center lock) for quite a while, but they have better self-defense ability than someone who has only worked on that concept for the same amount of time. A last word on footwork: lots of footwork drills help immensely in developing good balance, and that helps in knowing how to take it away... ===== David N. Beck dnbeck@beckmartialarts.com http://www.beckmartialarts.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 20:17:31 -0500 (EST) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Jere Hilland on learning the art Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you, sir! ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher hdgdforum.com ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 18:11:44 -0800 (PST) From: Giancarlo Fusco To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Stovall, Your answer is exactly the kind I was hoping for. I am, quite honestly, tired of what I like to call "martial trends". Each decade seems to have one. In my experience, the 80's saw the "Ninja Boom" and the 90's was all about BJJ and Reality fighting. What about the first decade of the 21st century? Only time will tell. I've always believed that there is no superior martial art, only superior martil artists. Strategy, determination and plain old intestinal fortitude are the key ingredients in mastery of virtually any martial art, whether it be memorizing and practicing the 1000's of techniques in Hapkido or overcoming a stronger and faster opponent in the ring or in the bar. Each person looking to study should not ask "What is most useful?" or "What is the best martial art?". They should ask "What is most useful TO ME?". If a potential student (and on the flip side, the potential instructor should do the same) is open and honest with themselves, they will reap all of the rewards that their chosen art has to offer, regardless of it's "usefulness". Peace- G. Fusco --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest