Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 13:32:14 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #8 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. 6 minute mile (Charles Richards) 2. Re: old age and martial arts (kikbut@joimail.com) 3. Re: Hapkido Footwork (Bruce Sims) 4. Re: A Hapkiyusul Class Opened in TX, USA. (Bruce Sims) 5. bunk Hapkido (michael tomlinson) 6. footwork post by Freddie Bishop (George Peters) 7. Martial Arts and Aging (Keith Shaw) 8. Re: RE: What is most useful? (jakskru) 9. Re: KMA down under (jakskru) 10. The "Stovall Protocol" for Geezers and the Aging Active (long art icle) (CStovall@nucorar.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 20:31:30 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] 6 minute mile Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear list, Sorry I have been in lurk mode the past few days. I am back in the private sector after a few years in a cushy government job. This week was good in that I brought new money to the company, but also got the most demanding client I've ever met. Anyway I was making an analogy that if you could jog for a continuous mile you could do 3 2 minute rounds of sparring. I couldn't do a 6 minute mile to save my life so I agree 6 minutes is fast. Stay young, MC --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "kikbut@joimail.com" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 07:29:13 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: old age and martial arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I hear a lot of winning especially from parents that say " oh... I am too old for TKD ect.." I too started when my son was 6 and I 35. Now I just turned 49 and recently made 4th dan and still sparr with the energetic teenagers. I try to get my licks in early during the rounds and especially before they get closer towards making BB (lol)! Last year at the AAU National TKD Championship, there where several divisions of competitors over 50 to 70. It gave me great inspiration to keep on kick'n thru pain and suffering. In Dec 03 I joined a Judo / Jui-jitsu dojo and train there on weekends....my instructor is 60 and stills rolls and falls like a teenager. It may take him awhile to get moving in the morning, but once on the mat, you would never know. Last fall, I attended a World Martial Arts Conference at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Va. There was one particular judoka doing judo and ju-jitsu techniques for about 10 minutes. Throwing and being thrown at his young age of 83!!! So I am counting on at least 30 years of good training, unless cancer, a drunk driver or a jealous husband gets me first. So my hat is off to all of you martial artist over the age of 40! Train Hard and cya in the ring! Wayne Spencer Spencer's Warrior Club Suffolk, Va vatkd.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 04:59:16 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido Footwork Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jack: ".....I was saying I think it makes more sense to teach the technique and footwork together emphasizing unbalancing and distance estimation as one....." Sorry--- my bad. I completely went off in the wrong direction. I'm right there with you about the footwork. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 05:06:18 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: A Hapkiyusul Class Opened in TX, USA. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: For those who may not have met him, Shin Hoon has been an out-spoken proponent of Dojunim Kim's Hapkiyusool and a member of the Yong Sul Kwan for quite some time. He is the mentor for the Yong Sul Kwan in Seoul and a dedicated practitioner of the art. I'm not sure how long he is going to be in the States but heartily encourage folks in the Hapkido community to find an opportunity to spend some time with him. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:16:42 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] bunk Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Freddie writes: <> That is a very valid point and quite observant. Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 10:17:46 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] footwork post by Freddie Bishop Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sirs, In TSD we use some joint locks and throws(from hapkido). If this guy meant that the instructors he had or saw did not use proper footwork and/or body positioning I feel sorry for him. I have been thrown so long, hard and often, I have nearly forgotten what it was like to move in a bi-pedal hominid like manner from all my time prone on the mat. I also have seen instructors who feigned knowledge of things,but I don't think that this is everyone. Respectfully, George --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Keith Shaw" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 13:19:57 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Martial Arts and Aging Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wow! That's what I find great about the martial arts is that unlike other activities age is not as important. In fact alot of the more focused students I've seen at my school and tournaments are those that have a "few miles on the odometer". I started 3.5 years ago at 44, and love it - I'll be a young 48 in just a few weeks. I go at least four-five days per week for up to 2 hours or more per session for training - sparring, forms, weapons and teaching as well. Over the years, martial arts has become my primary form of physical activity. It has also gotten me involved in Qi-gong as well. I recently earned 1st dan and my ACMA certification. It is hard to give it up! Keith Shaw -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: What is most useful? Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:41:34 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net as usual, craig gives a very entertaining and insightful response...too bad you dont live in the cleveland, oh area because i would truly like to meet ya and/or train with you...in reply, let me say i agree completely...and therein lies the old tenet....you get what you put into it... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:20 AM --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] KMA down under Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 16:09:22 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.hapkido.org.nz/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Anne Young" To: Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 1:01 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] KMA down under > Hello all, > > I am wondering if anyone knows of any good KMA clubs in New Zealand, > particularily the city of Christchurch in the south island. I have been > studying tae kwon do for 4 1/2 years and hapkido for 2, but am willing > diversify (as I firmly believe that cross-training is important for all > martial artists). Any advice would be greatly appreciated! > > Mary Anne Young > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 16:14:19 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] The "Stovall Protocol" for Geezers and the Aging Active (long art icle) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The recent postings about age and staying in shape have inspired me to share a little bodyweight exercise protocol that I sort of "invented". I know a lot of martial artists like to use BW exercises as their main conditioning supplement for a variety of reasons, and I've had great success with them. I'm doing this for two reasons...I really think a lot of people can get something from this, and there's no sense in folks making Matt Furey any richer when I can set you on the straight and narrow for free (yes, I'm anything but humble). Plus, my fellow geezers who follow this protocol may find themselves in better shape than their teeny-bopper counterparts at the dojang. Trust me...this works. The exercise is a simple, compound set of squats and pushups. You will perform 10 straight squats and then immediately hit the deck for 5 straight pushups. You can do Hindu squats if you want to, but I suggest flat footed squatting with heels on the deck. Personally, I do feet at shoulder width or slightly wider, feet flat, toes pointed SLIGHTLY outwards, and arms folded in front in "I Dream of Jeannie" fashion. Try to keep the shins as vertical as possible, and do NOT let the knees go over the toes any more than you need to. Find what works for you, but good form is the key. The same with pushups, but I recommend doing pushups with shoulder width hand placement and elbows close to the body as opposed to wide hands and flared elbows. IMHO, this prevents injury through the shoulders and pec insertions, and the elbow position better mimics proper punching mechanics. 10 squats and 5 pushups...that comprises one set. The protocol is that you will do these for 20 minutes. The idea is to see how many sets you can do in that 20 minute time frame. You can rest as long as you need between each set...you can do them one after the other...you can rest a minute between each set...you can do them in clusters of three...it doesn't matter. The central theme is to do as many sets in 20 minutes as you can manage and still maintain the type of quality movement that I prescribe (more on that later). The beauty of this is that you will now have a goal to beat next time. So, if you can do 20 sets your first go around (which ain't that bad), then you will try to do at least 21 the next time you do this protocol. Some of you will probably notice that this is similar to Charles Staley's density training concept. The idea is to keep the time frame fixed (20 minutes), and constantly fill that set time frame with an increasing volume of work (number of sets). A key concept in all of this is that you want to maintain two key qualities of movement...speed and range of motion. I don't like the Furey camp's notion of continuous, high rep calisthenics because you will discover that the speed falls off after a given number of reps...it HAS to. The result is that you will become a highly conditioned sloth. I believe that BW exercises can and should develop explosiveness as well as endurance. The key is that each individual set should be a sprint. You do each rep in the set as fast as possible. Breaking the work into individual sets of 10 squats and 5 pushups makes this possible. This is because you have the option of resting between sets for as long as it takes you to recover, and you're limiting the number of consecutive reps. Even if you're a studmonkey and do the sets back to back your arms and legs get SOME rest just by frequently switching between the squats and the pushups. The second key is range of motion...don't cheat yourself. You can easily do more sets than last time by simply reducing the range of motion on squats and pushups. You just have to remember that we're trying to increase the volume of work done per unit of time. If you reduce your range of motion (i.e., start doing quarter squats) then you reduce the amount of work per given number of sets. Don't do this. Find a good range of motion for each movement, and try to maintain that range as you increase your sets over time. I recommend squatting to just below parallel, and then coming back up to just a hair before lockout (keep safety in mind). The Crossfit folks like to squat over a small Swiss ball or large medicine ball. That way they have to touch their behinds to something each rep, and this prevents cheating. On the pushups, never lockout the arms but extend all the way up to a fraction before lockout. I don't like touching the chest to the floor since the tendency is to "bounce" them like Harry Highschool's bench presses. I like to hit about 2-3 inches above the deck. Good range of motion is the key. Large range movements insure the largest amount of work possible, and you get more cross stimulation of the muscle fibers (which leads to greater strength). Remember, the amount of work you do is dictated by the number of sets AND the range of motion. You can't cheat the sets because it's just counting (duh)...you WILL cheat the range of motion. Key points...be fast, work hard, don't shortcut, and BE SAFE. The work is distributed between the lower and upper body on a 2:1 ratio for a very logical reason...the lower body has more muscle mass and can handle twice the work as the upper. This protocol has numerous benefits. The obvious benefits are strength-endurance and lactic acid tolerance. Very important qualities for someone that is training to fight. For me, there were some hypertrophy benefits, so don't be surprised if you pack on a little muscle with this routine. However, that's contingent upon sprinting through the sets...fast movement will stimulate the larger, white fibers. Slow movement will stimulate the smaller, red fibers. Your cardio will go through the roof. IMHO, this program is immensely more beneficial to cardiovascular health than slow, long-distance running. I did this routine (along with other stuff) through the spring and summer of 2004, and have recently laid off on it because of a rekindled love affair I'm currently having with the heavy iron. I plan to start back up on this protocol next week. I don't mind telling you that my training partners thought I was a FREAK when I was doing this. My work capacity and recovery ability was pretty spooky. Honestly, I never anticipated the magnitude of the benefits when I first designed this routine. Even if I did become slightly winded during an intense portion of a sparring match, I could QUICKLY recover. The tank was full, and life was good. Caveats (there are many). If you embark on this...take it slowly. Don't rush in unless you're already a BW exercise freak, and don't try to add too many sets too soon. Add 1 set each time to beat your prior PR, and don't be afraid to repeat the same number of sets on subsequent workouts (sort of like a step-ladder cycle). The reason is simple...you will eventually hit the wall on this program, and you want to get the most out of the routine before you have to switch things up. I recommend doing this protocol twice a week if your schedule will permit. Three a week is fine, but you will burn out if you're training MA on top of this (unless you're 16 and jacked up on Biotest supplements). I recommend twice a week for three weeks, and then take a week off from it. If you made amazing progress during the three weeks, then start back on week 5 at 60-80% of your personal record sets. If you didn't make amazing progress then start back where you left off (or maybe 90% of your record sets). Also, don't be pissed if you don't set a record every time within a cycle (or even fail to equal your last performance). They can't all be dandies. Just do it, and reap the benefits over time. No single session is important...it's the cumulative work over time that does the trick. It's also OK to back completely away from "record mode", and just do this protocol "light and easy" for a couple of weeks. Doing the sets slow and steady with 15 to 25 sets over the 20 minutes makes for a great recovery workout. Beating your record each time just makes it fun, and provides an internal motivation. In fact, if you lift weights or grapple a lot this light version of the protocol will really help to work out the kinks while still raising (or just maintaining) your work capacity that will in turn carry over to your other activities. The first time I did this protocol I breezed through 25 sets ("breezed" is my pet phrase for sweating and panting). That's 250 squats and 125 pushups in 20 minutes. Not world class, but not too shabby. The key to remember is that we're talking full range of motion, and fast movement...that makes a BIG difference. You could do those same 250 squats and 125 pushups in a lot less time than 20 minutes if you did them in bigger sets or just did them straight through. The PROBLEM is that your quality of movement will slow down and your form will worsen as you fatigue. This is not slow burn cardio training...this is bust your tail & recover, bust your tail & recover, repeat until the buzzer sounds. This ain't aerobics...this is ANAEROBICS. I played around with this for a couple of months and eventually worked up to 35 sets on a consistent basis...that's 350 squats and 175 pushups in 20 minutes. Again, nothing Olympian in terms of performance but the benefits were astounding. Cardio through the roof, looked better in the mirror, and the muscular endurance of a high school wrestler. My eventual goal is a score of 40. I think it's possible for me even with these long legs, but I'm going to tell my wife to have the paramedics on stand-by. It would probably help to have a training partner to heckle...ummm, I mean provide motivation, but I usually do these on my own. What you will find is that you will eventually hit the wall on this, and you will have to do something to shake things up. Again, periodize the work by working for three weeks (or four or five...depending on your recovery ability), and then taking a full week away from it. Start back at some percent of your previous best and work back up. This will minimize some of the burnout, but you will likely find that you quickly hit that "magic number" that you just can't get past. The thing I did to work around this is to shake things up by doing a cycle with the 20 minutes split into 2 10-minute rounds. What you will find is that you do about 60% of your total work during the first 10 minutes of the single 20 minute time frame. So, by splitting it into 2 rounds of 10 minutes, and taking a 5 minute breather in between...you'll have a better "second half" because you will have recovered. Just add the scores from the 2 rounds to get a new cumulative record. You can even take this a step further and divide the 20 minutes into four 5-minute rounds with 2-3 minute rests in between. These really become sprints at this point as you rush to cram as much work into each 5-minute interval. Again, you add more rest, more recovery, and your overall amount of work should increase. Just one way to shake things up. Eventually, we'll have to be more slick than that in terms of varying the intensity (load) because the volume of work will only get so high before we hit the limit and then regress. In weight training, we could just load more weight on the bar (intensity) and cut back on the sets and reps (volume) before working back up (think of the classic 5x5 protocol for weightlifting). Basic periodization. However, we're working with a static load (our body) so we need to either add weight or change the leverage. One thing you could do after hitting the wall is cut way back on the sets per 20 minutes, but add intensity by holding a 5-10 pound weight (or more) in your hands and doing the pushups with your feet propped up on a low stool or platform. This makes the movements harder, thus the need to taper back on the volume of work before climbing back up the ladder. Another thing I advise is to change the core movement altogether. For example, instead of the squats and pushups you could do lunges (5 each leg) and some other pushup variation (or maybe dips). Maybe do Hindu squats and Hindu pushups ala Matt Furey. If you're getting really world class then you could do pistols and handstand pushups. Do a few cycles of something different and then go back to the original squats and pushups. This has numerous benefits. First and foremost, it provides a new goal to increase since you're doing a completely different set of exercises. Second, it keeps things mentally fresh because you've changed things up (everything gets boring in time). Finally (and perhaps most important), it reduces the possibility of repetitive stress injury. You can do any movement you like, but I had great success with the squats and pushups. The possibilities are almost endless. You'll notice that this protocol is "push" biased, so you may want to throw in some chinups somewhere to balance things out. You could even do a three part complex if you have a chinning bar. 10 squats, 5 pushups, and 5 (or maybe 3) chinups. Who knows...it's your body...do with it what ye like (within the limits of the law, of course)! Other protocols of note: Karl Gotch Bible - everybody should do the "Karl Gotch Bible" just once if for nothing else than to say they've done it. Take a shuffled deck of cards and start turning them over one by one. Each card represents an exercise. Turn a card, exercise, turn the next card, exercise, repeat...simple. Red card means squats. Black card means pushups. Face cards are ten and everything else is face value. Take out the jokers, or leave them in and have them represent some outrageous number (like 50). Without the jokers it's 170 pushups and 170 squats...not well balanced in my opinion but it will "kick thy arse" if you get in there and do it seriously. The idea is to get through the deck as quick as possible. I can't remember what my personal record is (like you care), but I've heard that 12-minutes is considered pretty sexy. The Tabata Interval: This interval was uncovered through research in Japan, and has become sort of an icon on this side of the ocean. Everybody's talking about Tabata. Tabata is just 6-8 HARD intervals of 20 seconds with a 10 second rest period in between. I believe the original Tabata interval involved sprints on a recumbent exercise bike, but we crafty Americans have taken it and bastardized it all over the place. You can do Tabata rowing, Tabata bike sprints, Tabata kettlebell swings, Tabata burpees...whatever. The Crossfit folks prescribe Tabata squatting, and their group has done a lot to popularize this interval stateside. Basically, you do as many squats as you can in 20 seconds, rest 10 seconds, and then start the next 20 second round. 6 to 8 rounds are recommended. You "score" your performance by taking the number of squats done during your worst round (usually your last). So, if you could only do 8 squats in the final round, your overall score would be...ummm...8!!! Again, the idea is to drive up your score over time, and the increased performance marks your increases in overall work capacity and athletic qualities specific to that task. You could also do Tabata pushups, but I only recommend 4 rounds (stick with that 2:1 ratio...trust me). Research has shown this interval to produce incredible gains in cardiovascular endurance when done with the bike. I have not done a lot of Tabata, but the few times I did it knocked me on my backside. It is one of the most intense protocols you can do, and fits very well with bodyweight exercises. Give it a rip. I appreciate the bandwidth...thank you, Ray!!! This stuff was actually part of an e-book that I was going to produce and publish (for FREE no less). The original vision was for a book with a ton of stuff related to bodyweight exercises and the use of unconventional training apparatus. Kind of like Matt Furey without the soul sucking greed attached to it, ya know? If you try it and get good results, drop me a line and let me know. If you have any questions, drop me a line and let me know. If you try it and have a cardiac event, drop Ray a line and let him know so that he can contact his lawyer. You see, I'm not a real human being...I'm a government Artificial Intelligence project gone horribly wrong. Train hard! Craig Stovall CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest