Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:21:14 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #24 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Stayin alive (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Fees continued (L. Veuleman) 3. Re: Fees (Bruce Sims) 4. Re: Hwarangdo (ABurrese@aol.com) 5. Re: Re: Fees (David Zapencki) 6. RE: Re: Fees (Rick Clark) 7. RE: Taekwondo @ 57 (another long article) (CStovall@nucorar.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 01:22:02 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Stayin alive Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net MC writes: > On to $99, $129 or $159/month. For someone with as much experience and > skill teaching as a James Allison, Elder Uncle Rudy, or GM West, that's > open everyday except Sunday, maybe even has the option of some > lunchtime day classes I'd say they should be able to earn a wage > capable of supporting a family, no different than a Doctor, Lawyer, or > Accountant. If that's $129/month then that's fair and I would hate see > folks like that working at Quik Trip from 6am to 2pm or midnight shift > so they could teach Karate in the evenings full time. Hello Charles: Like many old timers, I always thought I should teach martial arts for the love of it (funny thing IS that I always had to pay myself, and I have NO idea why I got the impression that I should teach free). I ran my school as a non profit club for more than thirty years, and I took in all the strays who could not pay (most of them made other choices, and few actually had NO money). I charged a nominal fee to the rest to keep things going . I did not need the money, because I had a full time job. Alas, a severe back injury at the jobsite took care of that, and now I am at retirement age with no pension, and my (full time) hobby of martial arts is what I have to rely on to keep me alive. Let me just say that the folks whom I took care of when they had no money are not to be found anywhere, and I strongly suggest that anyone teaching martial arts charge a fee that will allow them to live a decent life after retirement age. The service we provide is more than worth it, and I guarantee that you will NOT survive on teaching freebies all your life. Not bitter, but surely no longer living in the dreamworld that martial arts should be taught free like so many still believe. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:10:15 -0800 (PST) From: "L. Veuleman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Fees continued Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charles and Micheal <> Thats kinda what I thought too, sorta the basis for my argument. << the fees stated for Shreveport is about par for the Daytona Beach area. But that might be high for other areas or quite low for other areas... I know some of my buddies in California charge quite a bit more but that is ok for their area.... >> I am not too familiar with the area, bout how many people? I think Shreveport is around 100K, and Bossier 25K (just an estimate). They are "twin cities" seperated by the Red River. Lots who work in S'port live/play in Bossier, and vice versa. I would think California would be pretty high as well. I wonder what the highest is, anywhere? <> Very true. I had a good friend I offered lessons to, he took for about 2 months, did really well, then just quit coming. He still came over to my house every day like normal, but just made excuses all the time regarding the workout. Thats soooo crazy how society is.... << I agree in South Carolina (46th in percapita income) The median income in rural suburbia is about minimum wage to $7.50/hour. Sometimes thats also a 20 year old single mother of 2 or a 25 year old single mother with a 6 year old that really needs to be in your program because his 26 year old former role model (baby daddy) is no where to be found....>>> We have lots of missing baby daddys in this area :) <> Thats awesome she didn't charge you rent, and kept the program low for the income of the area. I had a great gym owner who really hooked me up too so that the program could continue for the kids as well. > Again, isn't that crazy how the human mind works. Didn't we all have a friend in high school whos parents gave them a car, they wrecked it doing something stupid, then the parents gave them another. People don't care when its free! I would have been walking! My dad let me BORROW his ol beat up F150, and if anything would have happened to it, things would have been BAD for my health. Sorry, getting off subject... <>> I do think one should take rank into consideration when thinking about schools fees. One of our guys, Joe Dupaquier, offers private lessons with any of his black belts of the students choice, the 1st dans are worth say 10 per hour, 2nd dans 15, 3rd dans 20, and so on. Thats kinda neat. I don't know if those are the exact prices, I haven't been to his school in about a year. While talking about him, he charges around 70 per month too. He (6th Dan) is in Mandeville though, which is one of the very wealthy suburbs of New Orleans. There are two other 'big' schools (he is 300+) charge 99-115 (these numbers are from about a year ago when we talked) Seems like martial arts are doing good in that area!! Don't we all wish we had that kinda market! You know, when I was writing about my initial reaction to that place charging so much, I never thought about the older (read:more experienced) guys on the list who probably charge that much. You guys deserve it. You've been teaching for so long, and put in your time, and probably have grandchildren schools. But I can't help my reaction from a 3rd Degrees's TKD school in North Louisiana. Just seemed a bit high to me. Charlie Veuleman 2nd Dan --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 04:53:54 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Fees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reading the last few posts I was struck by a thought and wanted to toss it out for feedback. Regarding fee policies, I wonder what people would say about having monthly and testing fees for gueppies only. Dan ranks would only pay test fees but no monthly fees. I have a couple of philosophical reasons for this but wondered what people thought of the overall policy. Comments? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:14:54 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hwarangdo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, Thanks for posting the Korea Herald piece. That's the article I first read and learned about the new site in Sokcho. I'm looking forward to visiting there. Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "David Zapencki" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Fees Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:27:11 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I could see it if the dans are teaching... Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Sims" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 6:53 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Fees > Reading the last few posts I was struck by a thought > and wanted to toss it out for feedback. > > Regarding fee policies, I wonder what people would say > about having monthly and testing fees for gueppies > only. Dan ranks would only pay test fees but no > monthly fees. I have a couple of philosophical > reasons for this but wondered what people thought of > the overall policy. Comments? > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Fees Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:49:12 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Bruce, > From: Bruce Sims [mailto:bsims@midwesthapkido.com] > Reading the last few posts I was struck by a thought > and wanted to toss it out for feedback. > > Regarding fee policies, I wonder what people would say > about having monthly and testing fees for gueppies > only. Dan ranks would only pay test fees but no > monthly fees. I have a couple of philosophical > reasons for this but wondered what people thought I guess it would depend on the circumstances but the first thought that popped into my mind was: Are the dan ranks still learning and being taught or are they simply practicing the techniques they have been taught previously. Sort of comes down to a rather basic concept for me, and the longer I am in the martial arts the more I believe it - as a 1st dan you are finally ready to be taught by your instructor. *IF* the dan grade are still being taught and not simply being led through the movements then they are receiving something of value. If however, as a 1st dan you have been taught, and are not really receiving further instruction, if they are taught the same things as the 1st gup and simply follow along and work up a sweat, AND if they are being used for assistant instructors. Some sort of fee remission would probably be in order. The less instruction they receive and the more they are being used to teach classes should play into the calculations. I don't want to down play the importance assistant instructors teaching and how much they learn from assisting. But I have seen too many times once a person reaches dan level that they are not being taught or if they are it's very limited. Another factor that will play into this is how many dan grades are there in the club? Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:07:02 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Taekwondo @ 57 (another long article) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Doug...let me take a crack at helping you out. I would not lift weights if I were you. Now, take into account that I'm a huge advocate of weight lifting, and I use it extensively in my personal conditioning program for martial arts. However, there's plenty that you can do to get back into shape without ever picking up a barbell, and lifting weights in your situation (57 trying to get back in shape) is kinda like putting the cart before the horse. For now, I would concentrate on bodyweight protocols, and increasing flexibility/joint mobility. The very first thing you could consider is using the very art that you're learning to get back into shape. TKD is marvelous in that its core postures and movements are physically challenging, and their performance elicits some pretty impressive physical changes. Work on your stances while you're watching TV at night. You should be getting familiar with the front stance and/or horse stance. You may have been shown the side/back stance by now (depends on the teacher's curriculum). Get into those stances and hold them for time. Holding a static front stance is one of the best exercises you can do. It strengthens the support leg, increases muscular endurance, and increases flexibility. Ditto for the horse stance. Hold them for 5 to 10 seconds, and then increase the time as your strength and endurance increases. You'll be surprised at how great of a lower body workout you'll get in a very short period of time. In fact, don't even think of it as a "workout". Just do them as "active rest" while you're piddling around the house or watching TV. I'm a big fan of static holds because the muscular tension increases strength, and the absence of movement lessens the chance of injury. This is a double benefit for those that are on the "comeback trail". Work those kicks. I'm sure you have the front kick by now. Work that kick, but think of it as a "stretch" rather than a "kick". Get a chair (or something to hold onto with one hand for balance) and work the front kick in "4-count" fashion. From the standing neutral position, you lift and chamber the knee (1) and then try to hold it there for a pause. Great for the abs and hips. Next, SLOWLY extend the kick out (2) and hold it extended for a pause. Great for hamstring flexibility and quad strength. Next, re-chamber the kick (3) and hold for a pause. Finally, put the kicking leg back down (4). Repeat. Awesome way to develop strong, fluid kicks, as well as develop strength and flexibility in the legs. You'll find that you can work all of your kicks like this. Doing them slowly and deliberately with a pause at each stage builds strength, endurance, and flexibility. The chance of injury is also reduced. Every great kicker I've ever known works their kicks like this at least some of the time. Before I move on I want to impress upon you a very important lesson that I wish I had learned a LONG time ago. "Working out" and "getting in shape" does not necessarily involve getting sweaty and out of breath all the time. I truly believe that a lot of Americans don't get into things like Yoga (especially men) because it's been hammered into us that "getting into shape" involves killing ourselves on the tread mill or lifting so much weight that we require a monthly visit to the proctologist. Not so. The strengthening/stretching stuff is just as beneficial as the "killer cardio" stuff, and lays the foundation for the more intense exercise that you might want to take up later. Anyway... I'm also going to prescribe for you one of my bodyweight protocols. In case you saw the earlier e-mails about the 20-minute squat/pushup workout...ummmmm...don't do that one just yet!!! I'm going to describe one of my "rehab circuits" that I use to recover from intense lifting and grappling sessions. It's also a good baseline program for someone who needs to get back into the habit of just working out with their own bodyweight. I'm actually doing this circuit over the next two weeks as I'm putting the barbell down for a while, and preparing for some pretty intense BW protocols. This is also the year that I'm going to give "kettlebelling" a serious twirl, and I'm using this circuit to sort of get my "house in order". First of all, the reps are done very SLOWLY and DELIBERATELY. Thus the name "rehab circuit". The idea is to create muscular tension, get the blood flowing through the whole body, and move the joints through some range of motion without a lot of stress. You should actually feel fresher at the end of this workout than when you began. I actually did this circuit last night in my jeans and t-shirt as I watched Ken Burns' great new documentary about Jack Johnson. Again, you'll get the most out of it if you don't even think of it as a "workout". It's active rest...something to be done when you'd otherwise be holding down the couch. It's not very intense and won't satisfy the adrenaline junky, but I will let the results speak for themselves. My shoulder injury is fading away, and I jumped out of bed this morning like a jackrabbit on ephedrine. This particular circuit is as follows: calf raises, squats, pushups, crunches, hip bridges, and "supermans". Six moves, whole body...slow and steady wins the race. 1. Calf raises: these are pretty standard. Just stand with feet slightly apart, and raise up on the toes. Do them slowly and squeeze a little at the top. Some people like to make them a little more challenging by sliding a book or board underneath the toes to increase the range of motion. Do between 10 and 20 reps. 2. Squats: I don't like squatting on the balls of the feet like the Furey cult, but I will let folks make up their own mind. I prefer feet flat, feet shoulder width apart (or slightly wider), toes pointed SLIGHTLY outward (as long as they track the knee), arms folded in front of chest (think of 'I Dream of Jeannie'), lower back is flat or SLIGHTLY arched (no rounding in the back), and chest "up". Again, do them slowly and don't squat farther than parallel when you begin. I actually like to "pull" myself down into the squat the same way that power lifters prescribe. This is sometimes a hard concept to grasp, but think of your hamstring as a bicep. Flex the hamstrings as tight as you can and let them "pull" you slowly down in the squat as opposed to just relaxing the legs and dropping. This has numerous benefits. First, it's a safer way to squat sense you're maintaining a position of tension through the entire movement. Second, you're activating more muscles and getting more bang for your exercise buck. Third, you'll find that it's easier to come back up out of the squat as you relax the hams and contract the thighs, hips and glutes. This equals more, better, safer reps. Do between 10 and 20 reps. 3. Pushups: Pretty standard fair. Like the squats, flex your biceps and slowly "pull" yourself down into the bottom position. Slowly "grind" your way up by flexing the triceps, shoulders, and lats. Create tension, and you will create strength. You will also get a nice "pump' in the muscles, and this seems to help me recover from injury. There's a million ways to do pushups (ok, only a thousand), but I prefer to do them with hands a little wider than the shoulders and with arms/elbows kept close to the torso. If you want to be "Mr. Pecs" then do them with hands and elbows wide, but I like them my way because it reinforces good punching doctrine (elbows always down until they don't need to be). Do between 5 and 10 reps. 4. Crunches: ok, there's REALLY a million ways to work the abs, but this is a good way to do crunches that I learned from a great grappler. Lie down on your back with your knees bent and your feet pulled in near your rear (just like you're going to do sit-ups). Put your arms straight out and place your hands palms down on your knees. Now, contract your stomach as hard as you can and slowly pull your shoulders off the floor. Your hands should slide up and over your knees until your wrists are now touching the knees. This is as far as you go. The key is to NOT think "sit up". The key is to think "contract stomach and let the rest take care of itself". This will insure that you don't jerk your neck and hurt your back. The lower back remains in contact with the floor at all times, only the shoulders come up. Slow and steady. Do between 5 and 10 reps. 5. Hip bridges: alright, you cannot let another man see you do this next exercise. In fact, most women will make fun of you too. Ok? This reeks of mid-80's, leg warmer and spandex aerobics classes, but it's one of the best exercises you can do. Lie down in the sit-up position like before, and place your hands palm down on the floor beside your hips. Now raise your pelvis as far into the air as you can (I see you laughing Mike Tomlinson!!!) by flexing the hams and glutes and pushing off with the feet. If it's any consolation most good BJJ guys do a variation of this very exercise, the only difference is that they do a combination "twist and reach over the far shoulder" along with the hip bridge. This is a good core exercise, and really lays the foundation if you want to get into the more advanced bridging work down the road (reverse pushups, hand supported bridges, neck bridges, etc). It also reinforces good mechanics for certain positional escapes. In case you can't tell, I'm tying HARD to justify an exercise that is sprinkled with fairy dust by the looks of it. Just trust me. Do between 5 and 10 reps. 6. Superman: lie face down on the floor with your legs straight, and your arms stretched out straight in front of you. See, you look like Superman flying. Now SLOWLY arch you back and lift your arms and legs off of the floor while keeping them as straight as possible. See, now you look like Superman having a back spasm. Seriously, most Americans battle back pain because the lower back (the spinal erectors in particular) does not get adequate work and maintenance. This movement will remedy that. When you get good at it, you will be supporting your bodyweight on your lower abdomen and pelvis. You should feel a terrific contraction through the lower back and all along the spine. Try to hold for a pause. Contract and relax this movement in a SLOW and CONROLLED fashion. Do no more than 5 to 10 reps. Repeat each exercise and the prescribed reps in sequence, and that constitutes one circuit. The idea is to pick a time (say 30 minutes to an hour) and just go through the circuits back-to-back. Do as few or as many as you want. Rest as little or as much as you need. I don't even count how many circuits I do. Again, I just do this as I watch TV. Last night I barely had a sheen of sweat going when I finished. For me, that's about right. Took a shower, hit the rack, and slept like a drunken baby. This morning...joints felt good...muscles felt good...mission accomplished. Repeat 3 to 5 times a week and reap the long-term benefits. This type of "active rest" exercise is a good habit to cultivate. Do this rehab circuit along with the TKD movements that I prescribed and you will be well on your way. At the very least, this stuff will lay the foundation for more intense work later as you increase your conditioning. But, plenty of time for that later. I hope you either enjoy this, or find something else that works for you. Feel free to drop me a line with any questions. Thanks for the bandwidth Ray. 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Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest