Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:26:14 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #46 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1900 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: to bruce sims: re craig stovall's "funsey" workout (Howard Spivey) 2. Cho Dan (Master Mac) 3. Sharing a room in Jackson? (Master Mac) 4. Re: Re: Black Belt Exodus (jakskru) 5. One steps and curmudgeons (David Weller) 6. Cho dan (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 7. USA Taekwondo goes high-tech (Ray Terry) 8. chodan (J R Hilland) 9. Re: Core Material (Bruce Sims) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:15:31 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: to bruce sims: re craig stovall's "funsey" workout Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net to bruce sims: 1. i hope you read craig's reply to your post about his "funsey" workout. imo it was very well stated. 2. if you think his squat-and-pushup workout is "funsey", my bet is that you've never tried it. so, why don't you try it for, say, 3 days, every 3rd day, and let us know how much "fun" you truly think it is. craig simply posted an excellent little workout that just about anybody can do, with no equipment, in 15 - 20 minutes, and that will have excellent benefits. as he said (i'm paraphrasing, of course), it should improve your capacity to perform the techniques of just about any martial art. i'm still trying to fathom how you managed to turn that into a rant. why are you so condescending toward everybody and everything you don't happen to agree with? or, to quote somebody far more eloquent than i... "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but not the beam that is in thine own eye?" --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:18:56 -0600 From: Master Mac To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Cho Dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net James Morgan: "I was always taught that 1st Dan was "Il Dan". 2nd Dan was "Yi Dan" and so forth. Where did "Cho Dan" come from and what is it's exact meaning?" James, basically the same thing. "Cho" means beginning, so the beginning or 1st dan is il dan. Yi or Ee dan is 2nd dan. Hope this helps, Mac (see yall in Jackson) --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 22:38:56 -0600 From: Master Mac To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Sharing a room in Jackson? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a couple of students that will be attending the 22nd International HapKiDo and Korean Martial Arts Seminar in Jackson MS on March 11-13 that are looking for someone who may be interested in sharing a room and the expenses. 1 is an adult male and the other an adult female. Please let me know if someone going wants to share a room with them. I'll help you get in touch. Just send me an email. I'm looking forward to seeing some old friends and meeting some new ones. Mac --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Black Belt Exodus Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:10:49 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net well, bruce---if you dont see that negative attitudes really dont help the equation, then there really is no help for ya...and so be it...i dont have a problem with any of the KMA community i am personally associted with, but then again, they all seem to have better outlooks on it. as far as the "non-KMA" stuff us good ol' boys seem to be yucking it up about, i personally believe that since i have made a commitment to martial arts a part of me, then i owe it to myself to make everything i can learn a part of my art...and since i have chosen the path of hapkido ( no forms ), then all the "non-KMA" stuff that the rest of us discuss applies to my training, so therefore it is relevent to the rest of us that train differently than you....hope this helps your disposition. nuff said on this from me..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Sims" To: Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:42 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Black Belt Exodus > With this kind of community, why on > Earth would anyone want to stay? FWIW. > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1900 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 From: David Weller Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:28:07 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] One steps and curmudgeons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I must agree that One steps have the possibility of giving a false sense of security and enhance poor technique. I always ask my one step partners to "try" to hit me in the nose (or where ever). And I ALWAYS return the favor... I've regretted it a couple of times, but I believe it has helped me "keep it real" for myself and my fellow students. Of course this has to be tempered by the students rank. White belts should probably not be trying to really hit the target. Our resident curmudgeon wrote: > > Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:42:27 -0800 (PST) > From: Bruce Sims > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Black Belt Exodus > And the focus of that comment was to ask that if > people can invest themselves in your workout, and > discuss its efficacy, how is it that same energy > cannot be used to perform the hyung specific to each > art and discuss the efficacy of THAT exercize. Its not > an "either/or" question. The same can be asked > regarding many aspects of the KMA. Why do people > practice Japanese sword instead of Korean sword? Why > do people practice Japanese or Okinawan staff instead > of Korean staff? Why practice Fillipino stick, or > Indonesian stick instead of Korean stick. The report > of individuals here is that they practice KOREAN arts, > but DO they? Simply pointing these views up is enough > to have Ray ask me why I am being so negative, but > noone ever quite gets around to explaining why it is > that when discussion comes around to KMA, favor > routinely falls to the most lenient or liberal > interpretation in the discussion. A person could be > forgiven for thinking that discussions of KMA have > less to do with reality than with sharing opinions > about what shapes KMA imagery. Is that what we have--- > a group of good ol' boys yuckin' it up like guys > anywhere albeit with a bit of a KMA tinge to the > discussion? If that really is the case, are we still > feigning surprize to Sandy that people drop-out after > making Cho-dan? With this kind of community, why on > Earth would anyone want to stay? FWIW. > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce > I hope this doesn't sound mean Mr. Sims, but you remind me of some of my young sons friends before they grew up (he's 15, I'm guessing you are around 12 or so..) You tend to say whatever comes to mind with little thought, or conversely with way too much thought, and damn the toes you step on. From your tone in 90% of your posts, I would say the only "legitimate" intellectual intercourse about the "true KMA" you will get is with yourself. Not everything is going to fit into your world view, and you have to learn to accept that and not expect everyone to think like you. It ain't gonna happen no matter how many megabytes you write about the "real" Korean Martial arts. Like someone in AA told me once. "Don't worry if one or two people tell you you have a tail. But if everyone is saying it you better turn around and check your ass." And your comments about practicing non-KMA stuff is just plain asinine. I have studied WTF TKD for going on 11 years (a newbie, for sure!!) and love it. It is my art, my joy and a wonderful addition to my life. But if a Filipino stick school opened up, or a BJJ school or a "name your non_KMA brand of the day" school I would never hesitate an instant to go train there (provided I was interested, and the teaching was decent) knowing full well my base art will always be TKD(and I would not stop that training), but also knowing those other arts might improve my base. What in the world is wrong with that? flame away if you need, Dave Weller PS, I practice my forms daily, and strength train as well (but lots of Mr. Stovalls stuff HURTS!!) and attend class 3 - 4 times per week. If you'd like to discuss any WTF forms in a reasonable, thoughtful manner, I'd be happy to join in. I suspect it's not in you though. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:45:48 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Cho dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: >Several koreans, mostly Kukkiwon types, have explained to be that Il Dan should be used instead of Cho Dan. and J.R. West wrote: "When attaining Black belt, a student has always been referred to as "Chodan", or beginning dan, and then E-dan or second dan. I have never heard of a teacher using Il-dan when referring to a bottom level black belt." So here's how to reconcile these statements. Cho dan is the older term for 1st dan black belts. It is out of favor in Korea because it is too close to the Japanese "Shodan," and since the 1970s the Kukkiwon and others have supported the use of Il dan instead. A lot of Americans are like J.R. in that our instructors came over in the 1950s and the language that we use is still that used by the Koreans in the 1950s and 1960s. Another example of this is "sudo" (knifehand) which is too close to "shuto" (knifehand in Japanese) and has therefore been replaced by "sonnal." "A rose by any other name..." Take care, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:08:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] USA Taekwondo goes high-tech Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net HangAStar Kicks Off Hosted Service Solution with OATI MINNEAPOLIS, Feb. 3 /PRNewswire/ -- HangAStar, Inc. and Open Access Technology International, Inc. (OATI) have kicked off a new set of hosted computer application services for amateur sports organizations and their participating athletes. The on-line services will assist with an organization's member registration processes, which is a daunting task when having to register upwards of 20,000 or more members annually, event management tasks for dozens of events, tournament scoring responsibilities for sometimes several thousand event participants, and sponsorship recruitment for hundreds of athletic organizations such as National Governing Bodies and local athletic clubs. HangAStar and OATI will develop and host these Internet-based application services and terabyte-sized databases at the OATI Data Center in Minneapolis, Minnesota. The HangAStar services will go on-line in March, 2005, and will initially provide services to USA Tae Kwon Do (USAT), the National Governing Body for Tae Kwon Do. The membership management service will provide complete registration and member management services for nearly 20,000 active members. The event management service will expedite the registration process for USAT sponsored competitions and set the stage for complete, integrated tournament management capability as well. By hosting the services at the state of the art OATI Data Center, HangAStar can bring much needed advanced information services to these non- profit organizations at a cost that meets their budgetary constraints and enhances opportunities to grow their membership. And to further assist these organizations and their many thousands of athletes, the HangAStar sponsorship service can bring previously unrecognized, substantial funding opportunities for both the athletes and the organizations. Bob Gambardella, USAT CEO, was in need of taking an established legacy sports organization into the 21st century when HangAStar and OATI were introduced to him. Gambardella expanded on this newly formed relationship, "As we embark on this joint venture with HangAStar, we are confident they will be able to deliver a comprehensive product to assist USA Tae Kwon Do in the delivery of its membership, event and tournament management systems. HangAStar services will allow for an integrative approach for a 21st century sport organization such as USA Tae Kwon Do, resulting in a more efficient membership and events staff within the organization. Given HangAStar's professional and knowledgeable staff, and the countless man-hours they have put into USA Tae Kwon Do's new membership and event program, there is no doubt that our partnership with them will be fruitful." Paris Amani, president HangAStar, and Dr. Sasan Mokhtari, president OATI, have combined their visions to plan for a world-wide presence for HangAStar services. Master Amani is a well known international Tae Kwon Do competitor and gold medalist at a number of national and international events. Amani has been a Jr. U.S. National Team Member and U.S. National Team coach. Amani operates Elite Tae Kwon Do in Houston where he has coached and trained such international competitors as two-time Olympic Gold medalist Steven Lopez and other world champions and medal holders. Dr. Mokhtari is recognized as bringing the application service provider model to the energy industry and building an industry penetration of nearly 95% of wholesale electrical energy entities which utilize OATI hosted services and other advanced information technology solutions. OATI provides key electrical system reliability solutions to the North American power grid and provides expert level consulting services related to information technology. The vision of HangAStar will bring the necessary information technology to the amateur athletic world and match much needed funds between the competitive athletes and corporate and private sponsors. For additional information on HangAStar and OATI services e-mail info@HangAStar.net or sales@oatiinc.com. Quelle: HangAStar, Inc. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:44:02 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] chodan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Many musul terms came from the Japanese (re: the last occupation of Korea by Japan that ended with WWII), but they are now Korean words. Sometimes the Japanese got them from the Chinese. But this is not unusual, most English words can be traced back to European languages. Examples, (Japanese/Korean) budo/mudo, dogi/dobok, kyu/gup (the whole belt system for that matter), dan/dan, do/do (C: tao) ki/ki (C: chi) shodan/chodan, yudansha/yudanja, hapkidoin (in), judoka (ka), etc. I also have never heard the term ildan used for entry level dan. Got our plane tickets today for the big event in Jackson. Looking forward to no snow and seeing old friends. Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com PS. If you ever attend Master West's black hapkido belt class, you will see dozen of folks throwing each other around, some have been in that class for decades, always learning something new. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:44:53 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Core Material Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: ".....For me, I teach Korean Karate, I think that is the best English translation for what I do. For me I accept Korean Karate as a living evolving art, but your point is well taken about core strategies...." OK, now I need to go slow here because I just came out of a discussion of "Korean Karate" and for the life of me I still am not sure how various factions are using the term. Just so you have some idea of where my head is at both Duk Sung Son (TKD) and Kang Uk Lee (TSD) use the term "Korean Karate" and both use Shotokan-esque kata for many of their hyung. But I don't find that either of them claims to teach a Japanese art. So if I am off base on how you are using the term "karate" just work with me for a second. Right now I am gathering that you are using Shotokan related material as a skeleton upon which to hang disparate material, right? The "Korean" refers to inserting as much use of the feet as the hands--- say a 50-50 mix, right again? OK now up to this point I can imagine that you would not have a problem hanging new striking or kicking material on your skeleton. If a particular Chinese execution seems more effective than the Japanese bit, you probably could make the adjustment and pretty well go un-noticed in most circles. But lets say that you start to investigate the manipulative aspects of those same Karate Kata cum Korean Hyung. The Okinawans could do this with greater ease because the stances were narrower and shorter, keeping the center-of-gravity more well-controlled than in the long and deep Shotokan stances. Without going any farther than just this, how are you going to keep faith with your art and maintain a consistent underpinning? No trick question. Just a slow and easy start to what I mentioned in my previous post. A comparable situation that I COULD run into in my own teaching is if I taught Hapkido and Kendo/Kumdo sword--- the footwork is almost antagonistic to each discipline. But Hapkido and Kum-bup fit right together and they ought to since they grew-up togther. Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest