Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 03:03:53 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #47 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1900 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Black Belt Exodus (Bruce Sims) 2. Re: Cho dan (Ray Terry) 3. Re: Assinine? (Bruce Sims) 4. Re: Sharing rooms (Klaas barends) 5. 9th Golden State Open (Ray Terry) 6. hyung efficacy (Neal Konecky) 7. Re: Hung Up On Funsey?? (Bruce Sims) 8. re: badges (tim walker) 9. RE: RE: Black Belts That Quit (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 10. RE: Thank you! (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 11. RE: Cho dan (Rick Clark) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:10:28 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Black Belt Exodus Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "......I say good for you. The problem I have is the way in which you flash the badge. Being a live-by-the-code KMAist might be the right thing for YOU, but that doesn't mean that other people who are walking a different path are wrong....." Then if you can come this far with me, the last step is a no-brainer. In the time that I have been on this net and off and on and off etc etc there has been a huge range of people with different takes on the KMA. There are folks who cheerlead for each of the five major Hapkido personalities, folks who love/hate forms so on and so forth. Believe it or not I don't have a problem with any of the views. Hell, I even made a case for keeping "F-F" engaged in dialogue in the belief that we need to entertain all views. But, my particular hot-button is that we practice Korean martial arts. To say that we practice Korean martial arts is to say that we study military practices, or activities derived from military practices, in the hope of imbuing ourselves with a particular kind of spirit that brings us out of the best part of ourselves so that we may bring our culture out of the best part of itself. Now Americans have their way of doing things, and the Australians, Nigerians and everybody else around the world. I personally like the way Koreans do business and I work to understand their decision-making process, the influences and force that make them tick and so forth, all with an idea towards understanding how I might incorporate what they do into my own life to make me a better person. I am NOT asking or demanding that anyone else do this. My/their doing it, or not doing it, is not right or wrong or good or bad. There is however as much a place for this approach as any other and I do not, in ANY sense get the message that people are tolerant of this. What I hear VERY clearly and more often than not is "I know what I want to believe; don't bother me with the facts. When I want to know something I will tell you what I want to hear." In this sense I have come to expect that stalwart upholding of tradition for nothing more than its own sake will always be the red-haired step-child at the party regardless of what people might report to the contrary. I take time to make sure that R-H Step-child doesn't get sent off to the neighbors for the night too quickly. Thats it. Thats me and its just that simple neat and tidy. Nothing incredibly complex or sinister. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cho dan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:45:08 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > So here's how to reconcile these statements. Cho dan is the older term > for 1st dan black belts. It is out of favor in Korea because it is too > close to the Japanese "Shodan," and since the 1970s the Kukkiwon and > others have supported the use of Il dan instead. Exactly. The way several korean instructors have explained it to me follows the logic? that a Korean 1st Dan is better than -just- a Beginner Dan (i.e. better than the Japanese) and thus Il Dan should be used instead of Cho Dan. Not saying I agree, just repeating their words. I think it is mainly a Kukki-TKD-ism. ??? What term do the ITFers use? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:13:18 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Assinine? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Dave: ".....And your comments about practicing non-KMA stuff is just plain asinine. I have studied WTF TKD for going on 11 years (a newbie, for sure!!) and love it. It is my art, my joy and a wonderful addition to my life. But if a Filipino stick school opened up, or a BJJ school or a "name your non_KMA brand of the day" school I would never hesitate an instant to go train there (provided I was interested, and the teaching was decent) knowing full well my base art will always be TKD(and I would not stop that training), but also knowing those other arts might improve my base. What in the world is wrong with that? If I have to explain to you why it is inadviseable to mix and match material from disparate arts, I doubt you are ever going to understand. Suffice to say that not everyone has your liberal take, but the difference is that I can make room for your liberalism in my world. I don't any indication that this is works the other way around. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Klaas barends Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:35:34 +0900 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Sharing rooms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > 1 is an adult male and the other an adult female. Please let me know > if someone going wants to share a room with them. I'll help you get > in touch. Just send me an email. Just a crazy idea, but he, why don't they share rooms??? -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ Dutch HKD Federation http://www.sangmookwan.com/ SangMooKwan International Training Center Korea --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:10:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] 9th Golden State Open Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 9th Golden State Open Tae Kwon Do Chip Saturday, March 26 California State University, Los Angeles 5151 State University Drive Los Angeles, CA 90032 Sanctioned by: California State Taekwondo Assoc Directed by: Wung Hee Lee For more info: 626.286.6500, FAX = 626.286.7300 --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:12:44 -0800 (PST) From: Neal Konecky To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] hyung efficacy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net And the focus of that comment was to ask that if people can invest themselves in your workout, and discuss its efficacy, how is it that same energy cannot be used to perform the hyung specific to each art and discuss the efficacy of THAT exercize. Mr. Sims, Perhaps conditioning workouts meet with such a significant response because a) we all need conditioning regardless of whether we study TKD, KSW, Hapkido, etc )and the myriad subsets thereof) b) at least in my experience, my Masters/Instructors have told us that they are there to teach MA, not physical conditioning. If you want to get stronger, faster and more flexible, you have to workout in addition to MA.Further, given the "epidemic" of obesity, it is clear that there is a dearth of widespread knowledge of physical conditioning. You might also want to consider that when discussing technique, it is usually helpful for everyone to 1. practice the same style 2. see the same thing at the same time and 3. in my experience, interpretation of poomse are typically best done in person as a hands on experience. (You might want to consider the responses to your efforts to unify a terminology for Hapkido) Unless and until you are able to cure these difficulties, you might want to accept the limitations of the medium or simply choose not to participate in it as it clearly does not satisfy your needs. (Clearly, given the nature and tone of the responses to your posts, you may want to consider that a) the list has a very bad attitude b) the list participants are not of sufficient maturity and understanding to appreciate your wisdom c) your conduct. However, in deference to your obviously superior education, training and knowledge, I would truly like to know your interpretation of the side kick and middle punch executed simultaneously in Tae Beck. Neal Konecky The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments. George Washington __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:40:24 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hung Up On Funsey?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Howard: You are either not reading my posts in their entirety or you are willfully choosing to read something into the post which is not there. Nobody said anything about doing or not doing Craigs workout. My question is that if one can find time for Craigs workout, why not find time for more traditional training such as hyung? If one can find time to discuss Craigs workout--- or roast me--- how is it that you are not responding to the matter written about "core material" which is actually more germane to the issue. You are apparently hung up on the term "funsey" but you never quite got around to make a productive contribution to the actual issue I was raising. You may not realize it Howard, but you are affirming exactly what I originally commented on a few posts ago. Folks would rather talk about superficial, opinion-driven generalizations than apply themselves to what they say they are here for. This is a Korean martial art forum. But when matters of Korean martial arts come up the discussion routinely favors liberal, superficial and political discussion were all people have to risk or contribute is their opinions--- and we all know about opinions. Excuse me but where does anything get fixed, or at least resolved? Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "tim walker" To: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 21:58:51 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] re: badges Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Badges?! We don't need no steenking badges!! timo "What's so funny about peace, love, and spaghetti westerns?" --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Black Belts That Quit Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 20:58:40 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >they are even sources for a number of referrals after thy have left. The >sad fact is that I will probably never see the training at the dojang >again. I don't take it personally, I just except that they have moved on to >something else. It is a hard lesson to learn that while you may have >dedicated yourself to practicing for a lifetime, very few other people ever >will. This is a true statement. Not everyone looks at training as a life time path for development. I'm always surprised to find how many students don't practice at home or just view class as an event to show up for. I believe is that there is a place in the Martial Arts for everyone. If someone wants to: Earn a black belt and quit... Get more exercise... Learn Self-Defense... Win trophies at tournaments... Try something exotic... Have something to do twice a week so they are not bored... Become a life long Martial Artist... I think its all fine as long as they are well behaved, focused and helpful in class. There is a place for everyone. Not everyone who takes a music lesson becomes a professional musician... It's just the way life is... Jason --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Thank you! Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 21:05:29 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kat, It's great that your students can pull together like a family an over come such a crisis. Please extend my congratulation to Jenny on her promotion. She truly deserves it, I know she's had to overcome a lot the least of which was the broken knee! Jason -----Original Message----- From: bmac2 [mailto:bmac2@mail.ev1.net] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:12 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Thank you! I would like to publically thank and congratulate my students for their support and dedication. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Cho dan Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 22:13:14 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Guys, > > So here's how to reconcile these statements. Cho dan is the older term > > for 1st dan black belts. It is out of favor in Korea because it is too > > close to the Japanese "Shodan," and since the 1970s the Kukkiwon and > > others have supported the use of Il dan instead. > > Exactly. The way several korean instructors have explained it to me > follows > the logic? that a Korean 1st Dan is better than -just- a Beginner Dan > (i.e. better than the Japanese) and thus Il Dan should be used instead of > Cho Dan. > > Not saying I agree, just repeating their words. I think it is mainly a > Kukki-TKD-ism. ??? > > What term do the ITFers use? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com What a Crock of PC! So - E-dan is not similar to Ni-dan? OR Sam-dan is not similar to San-dan? OR O-dan is not similar to Go-dan? Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest