Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 08:12:21 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #57 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1900 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Seminars (Rudy Timmerman) 2. seminars (Rudy Timmerman) 3. Re: Mixing Martial arts (Jye nigma) 4. Re: Groundwork (Bruce Sims) 5. Multi-Master (Charles Richards) 6. re: cho dan (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 7. Ground fighting and one steps (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 8. Re: Diggin' Dakin (tim walker) 9. RE: More Ground Questions (CStovall@nucorar.com) 10. sports bodies promoting human smuggling (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 23:29:57 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cindy writes: > Message: 11 > From: "Cynthia Moe" > To: > Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 20:43:15 -0600 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Thanks for a great seminar > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I wanted to publicly thank Grandmaster Rudy Timmerman and our dojang > cousins > at Timmerman's Martial Arts for a great seminar and a wonderful time > at the > Sault this past weekend. Hello Cindy: I am glad to hear that you had a great time at my last seminar. To me it does not matter what rank a person is. The great ATTITUDE and training/work habits are what counts, and these traits are always in ample evidence by Master DeWitt's students... you represent him well:) --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 23:42:42 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Christy writes: > I recently attended Grandmaster Timmerman's NKMAA seminar. I have > attended several of his seminars, and I am always pleased and > impressed!  His > DoJang has such a "family" setting and we are always treated as > members of that family! Hello Christy: Thank you for your kind post about our seminar and the NKMAA family. IMHO, martial artists should ALL be welcomed with open arms and train in harmony together. Somehow I fear that this brotherhood among martial artists is not what it used to be, and that is a shame. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 05:05:37 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Mixing Martial arts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My post about an individual with numerous dans in various arts was just pointing out that it is common to see that. My post wasn't investigating their claims. For all I know, they could have studied TKD and Hapkido at the same time. I was just pointing out that I have personally seen alot of instructors who hold a 9th dan in this an 8th in that, etc etc etc. Jye Gladewater SooBahkDo wrote: I have just been lurking around and reading the post since my return from the Ko Dan Ja Shim Sa, but I had to respond to this. "9th dan TKD, 8th dan hapkido, 6th dan Judo" IMHO this is ridicules. For a person to mix martial arts styles has been going on for many years prior to the UFC. Bruce Lee did it in the 60's and 70's but he was not the first. Here is where I have a problem. To legitimately earn 8th dan can take a life time, to earn this high rank in 3 or more styles is impossible. I can understand a person who has earned a 5th or 6th dan to add to his technical ability by cross training. I do not believe cross training in a style earns you the right to adopt a rank. To earn a legitimate rank you have to humbly start as a beginner with a legitimate instructor and work very hard for years allowing yourself to adopt the philosophies, history, traditions, as well as learn the techniques. Differences in these areas is why there are different styles to begin with. Cross training is good, I myself do it. But legitimate rank in multiple systems (at least at 5th dan and higher is IMHO a play to impress new potential students, and shows a lack of humility) Don't be fooled. just because a person from TKD, Hapkido, Soo Bahk Do, or any other style can teach a few grappling techniques does not mean they are a Jujitsu 7th dan. JC _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1900 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 05:17:20 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Groundwork Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jere: Absolutely! I don't think the intended goal can be stressed enough. I still remember the change on the faces of people watching JR during a presentation that included a Vertical Wristlock. Just about everyone was probably familiar with this as an Aikido technique and effective come-a-long. With a single step backwards and a snap of the hands JR demonstrated that it was also an effective technique for Fx-ing the wrists. What I got from the audiance rxn was that 1.) "wow; impressive!!" and 2.) "over-kill." I think this second rxn needs to faced-down honestly and I sense this is the quiet part of your response. If the intent of the person is recreation, or competition, or restraining someone there is room for that--- even in Hapkido. I think, first and foremost, that people need to remember that competition and restraining individuals was not the original point of Hapkido. If I find myself in a superior position on the ground I am looking to stop the fight, any way I can. To this end we use a variety of chokes, breaks and PP work. If I can humanely pin the attacker, so much the better, but my goal and the goal of the art is not garnering points and a trophy. The goal is self-preservation. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 05:26:12 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Multi-Master Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read "Ko Dan Ja Shim Sa, but I had to respond to this. "9th dan TKD, 8th dan hapkido, 6th dan Judo" IMHO this is ridicules. For a person to mix martial arts styles has been going on for many years prior to the UFC. Bruce Lee did it in the 60's and 70's but he was not the first. Here is where I have a problem. To legitimately earn 8th dan can take a life time, to earn this high rank in 3 or more styles is impossible." MC Reply, Master JC, I encourage you to take a Han Mu Do Seminar with Dr. Kim, H.Y. KJN. He is 9th Dan Hapkido, and holds masters rank in TKD and Judo, and I believe is an IR for Judo. And if he's in a good mood you might even get to see the slide show going back to his experience with our beloved TSD. You are correct in that he has chosen to focus on his Hapkido Blend (HanMuDo), but he has committed his life to learning and sharing the Korean Martial Arts so it is possible to earn a masters grade in multiple systems. Agreeing with others and past archives, I think one can really only master one style in a lifetime, but could effectively cross train in a few other related arts, and even reach a adept level of proficiency in the augmenting arts. As with the Stoval workout discussion, you will often find the cross training fills a void in your root art, but also strengthens or helps you better understand concepts or basic motions in your root art. Train with Jung Do in your hearts The rest is commentary, MC --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:29:08 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] re: cho dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I want to thank all of you that responded to my request about the meaning of "Cho Dan". It feels good to get so many replys to a question that you may have. Again thanks, and I'll see you guys, and gals, in a few weeks in Jackson! James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:20:12 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Ground fighting and one steps Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have learned two systems of hapkido, and they used different ground grappling. USHF hapkido's ground grappling came directly from Brazilian jujutsu. Kongshin hapkido was more combative, and used a lot more jointlocks. It was very much a unified system. The story I like to tell, though, is about my 2nd dan test in USHF hapkido. We had to escape with someone else on top, both from the mount and the guard. Everyone else was passing the guard, etc., but my tactic was much simpler. Grab the nuts, and the guy gets off. Then you stand up. If the nuts are not available, gouge the eyes. If the eyes are not available, twist the big toe or ankle. Jabbing an index finger into someone's ear hurts a lot too, or so I'm told. Not to badmouth the grapplers out there, 'cause most of 'em are in great shape and tricky as hell, but really I'm a big guy, so if I drop my weight on someone, I get a big unfair advantage in ground grappling. So I tell my students to get OFF the ground as quickly as possible, and to fight as dirty as possible. As to one-steps, we used these progressions: For TKD: 1 steps 1 steps with sparring style attacks 2 steps 3 steps 1, 2, and 3 steps chasing the opponent down Ditto, but with any attack That was ok, but really quite limited. Sparring was our only out. Now here's what I do for HKD: 1 Escape and counter, 4 strikes 2 Sticky hands in a line - one person attacks, the other defends 3 Sticky hands and legs, as above 4 Sticky hands and legs, in a circle 5 Free sparring, no holds barred, no pads, light contact By the time you get good at stage 2, you are looking pretty good. Stage 3 is better than most sparrers. Stage 4 is a BLAST. And if you can get to stage 5 (which means you spend a lot of time training and getting used to your opponent), it looks like a kung-fu movie. FUN! Anybody else have training progressions they are willing to share? Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "tim walker" To: Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:55:29 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Diggin' Dakin Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Who knew D-dog was a hipster, fo' shizzle!? You been taking lessons from Kip? timo "What's so funny about peace, love, and roots?" --__--__-- Message: 9 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 10:14:17 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: More Ground Questions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Brooke, I hope you don't mind me chiming in here, but I wanted to offer some thoughts and see if you agree with me. I think a lot of times people look at BJJ as being the "gold standard" for ground fighting/grappling, and then look at other arts to see if "they have that stuff too". IMHO, BJJ is far superior to just about anything else out there in regards to fighting on the ground, but NOT because of its technical depth in relation to other arts (although it certainly has a broad and deep technical catalog). It's "superiority" comes from two very simple and critical pieces. 1. Emphasis on actively fighting from the back. This is just a fancy way of saying that they do a lot of guard work (or bottom scissor, or leg scissor, or dojime, or whatever you prefer to call it). On the ground, being on top is preferred, and both parties will strive to attain this position. Eventually one will win out due to skill, size, or strength. This results in most real world ground struggles moving toward a state of "one guy on top, one guy on bottom". BJJ accepts this as a basic assumption (remember: this was an art developed by fairly small men), and has developed the use of the guard as a primary fighting tool. It is the "yin" of groundfighting with the "yang" being domination from a mounted position variation. The guard is critical because without it you have to assume that you can easily and swiftly reverse/sweep/throw an aggressive attacker off of you from the bottom of a mount, and either get back to the feet or dominate your opponent from your new position on top. Anyone who's been on the ground knows the folly of this assumption. It ain't that easy to reverse things once you're on your back. So, fighting from the back and using the legs to control the opponent's body, and using this as a base to set-up strikes/chokes/sweeps/submissions is the only logical avenue for people who have two arms and two legs. Arts that DON'T teach or emphasize the use of the guard have a glaring hole in their curriculum as it pertains to fighting on the ground, and especially in regard to contending with a larger and stronger enemy (i.e., woman vs man). 2. Very strong emphasis on randori. This is just to say that "rolling" is an integral part of their training. Just as someone can't really say they've boxed until they've put on the gloves and mixed it up, someone can't really say they've grappled until they've gone live against some sort of real resistance, IMHO. BJJ teaches static technique under ideal conditions (a form of kata) just like any other art, but this is where most arts leave off. BJJ's training culture takes it a step further and allows you to "fire test" your stuff against a real live training dummy. The physical and mental advantages of doing this are almost too numerous to name. It engrains adaptability, builds poise under fire, tempers the body, reinforces good technique, eliminates hesitation, and promotes "in the moment" problem solving skills. Again, a lot of arts fail on the ground NOT because their techniques aren't good, but because this critical sparring piece is not a central part of their training culture. Just something to consider... 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Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:04:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] sports bodies promoting human smuggling Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FYI... I've been contacted in the past about supporting these TKD and Judo teams. Perhaps you have, too. =================================================== Pak sports bodies promoting human smuggling [World News]: Islamabad, Feb 9 : Pakistani sport bodies are being accused of using their tours abroad to promote a human smuggling racket. Norwegian Embassy officials have reportedly approached the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) with the charge that human smuggling is being carried out in the garb of sports teams, notably taekwondo and judo. Sources told the Dawn that the embassy had sent a letter to the FIA passport circle in Rawalpindi, saying that some taekwondo and judo teams recently visited Norway ostensibly to take part in a competition. But their members did not return after the event, it stated. The embassy urged the FIA to interrogate the management of such clubs and verify credentials of players who had applied for visas to take part in tournaments in Western countries, the sources said. "We will certainly net all those who are involved in human smuggling in the garb of attending sporting events abroad," Deputy Director of FIA passport circle, Rawalpindi, Akbar Khan Hoti told the paper. -- Asia News International (ANI) --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest