Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 12:27:14 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #59 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1900 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Groundfighting (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Ground Techniques Revisited (Brooke Thomas) 3. Re: Music to hit people to (Edward) 4. HKD, Ground work, and cross training (Edward) 5. RE: Drunken Kung Fu vs. Karate (Chrysten Pobje) 6. RE: Music to hit people to (CStovall@nucorar.com) 7. Re: RE: Music to hit people to (Jye nigma) 8. IOC Board seeks Kim's ouster (Ray Terry) 9. RE: RE: Music to hit people to (Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 23:58:29 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Groundfighting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dakin writes: > I have learned two systems of hapkido, and they used different ground > grappling. USHF hapkido's ground grappling came directly from > Brazilian > jujutsu. Kongshin hapkido was more combative, and used a lot more > jointlocks. It was very much a unified system. The story I like to > tell, though, is about my 2nd dan test in USHF hapkido. We had to > escape with someone else on top, both from the mount and the guard. > Everyone else was passing the guard, etc., but my tactic was much > simpler. Grab the nuts, and the guy gets off. Then you stand up. If > the nuts are not available, gouge the eyes. If the eyes are not > available, twist the big toe or ankle. Jabbing an index finger into > someone's ear hurts a lot too, or so I'm told. Not to badmouth the > grapplers out there, 'cause most of 'em are in great shape and tricky > as > hell, but really I'm a big guy, so if I drop my weight on someone, I > get > a big unfair advantage in ground grappling. So I tell my students to > get OFF the ground as quickly as possible, and to fight as dirty as > possible... Good advise Dakin. I always tell my students to use whatever works and avoid takedowns wherever possible. We would use every means available to achieve success in surviving, and we would not likely grapple with a grappler or box with a boxer etc. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:33:07 -0800 (PST) From: Brooke Thomas To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Ground Techniques Revisited Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Stovall- Your explanantion of fighting from the guard, "randori" on the ground, instant decision making, and date rape scenarios have summarized exactly what I was getting at. Position is king (up or down)...and yes, we all want to stay standing and knock out the bad guy(s) but what if the bad guy SOMEHOW gets superior position, then what? I have seen a lot of the Hapkido joint locks (wrist twist, wrist lock, arm lock, "standing" arm bar, etc) that work standing up fail miserably if tried executed from the ground as they're too easy to roll/drop away from. Obviously you can't lower your weight on a lock if you're already down. Unfortunately I think I may have spoken too much BJJ-speak on a KMA forum and I do not have the Korean terms to explain what KMArtists may alredy refer to as the exact same thing(?). Does Hapkido has similar ground escape techniques? I neither care nor have a financial interest in who gets credit for applications that work when you find yourself on the ground with someone trying to stop you from breathing. One last point I would like to make before I get off this subject. Ground techniques (BJJ or whatever!) are a little more tricky than just grabbing someone's nads, poking them in the eye, biting their thigh, etc...yes, I know that may work 90% of the time,...until you face someone drunk/stoned/numb enough not to feel it and you JUST might need to know an escape or two before you try and get outta Dodge. After all, there is nothing stopping the drunk-ex-high-school-wrestler from ALSO sticking his fingers in your eyes, rupturing your most precious assets, giving you a wet willy, etc., WHILE he has better position than you...:-) Food for thought. Brooke Thomas Hapkido Blend --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 23:45:07 -0600 From: Edward To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Music to hit people to Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you are listening to KRS-1 and BDP but you are looking for something more current you might want to check out Outkast. They have a song called Bombs over Bagdad that is great for getting your sweat on, as the kids say. Thanks for the Nina Simone tip. I would have never thought to use her during sticky lock flow drills. Cool. Edward Burdick, Dakin Robert wrote: >Tim wrote: > > > >>Who knew D-dog was a hipster, fo' shizzle!? You been taking lessons >> >> >from >Kip? > >Nope, I took a position at Indiana University-Purdue University at >Indianapolis, which is a much more diverse campus that IU Bloomington, >and my rap education is therefore rapidly advancing. I have discovered >a deep love for KRS-1, and although my office mates explain that he and >I are real old school has-beens, I'm trying to stay current. Currently >my favorite tunes to play while my partners and I are pounding on each >other are: > > KRS-1, "The Lessin" > The Disposable Heroes of Hiphipcrisy, "California Uber Alles" > Ludacris, "Southern Fried Intro" > Brand Nubian, "Soldier's Story" > Boogie Down Productions, "Gimme Dat (Woy)" > >Oh, and definitely check out Nina Simone's "Sinner Man." Even more old >skool than Chris, but definitely awesome music to do sticky hands to. >And Christina Aguilera's "Genie in a Bottle" is my favorite music for >sparring. And if you are looking for stuff en francais, check out Axel >Bauer's "Achille." Very nice! What does everyone else listen to while >punchin' and kickin'? > >Dakin >Hep-Hep Hapkido Federation >dakinburdick@yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1900 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:10:09 -0600 From: Edward To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] HKD, Ground work, and cross training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Y'all. Just my quick 2 cent addition here. I have been training in HKD for about 5 year now, so I know nothing about it yet. I started training in Judo for a few years because I wanted a variety of training to compliment my muscle and reflex development. After a while my Judo Instructor told me that we had stopped doing Judo a while ago so we started calling it combat grappling. Because we were not letting the "Rules" of Judo limit what we did. Eventually this stuff made it into the HKD class. We all really enjoyed the ability to free spar from standing to ground and back up again if possible. If you ever want to watch the confidence of a 3rd or 4th Dan TKD person fade offer to spar them with take-downs and ground fighting. Kicks are fewer when they are allowed to be caught. I was never taught ground work as part of my HKD training. When ever I asked my Masters about terminology for different ground techniques, I was given Japanese terms. Does anyone here know the Korean for Uki/Tori? We always used the term partner.How about korean a good old fashion O-soto-gari throw, in English it would be a major outer Leg Reap. Is cross training effective? I would think that by now if one system was totally complete the answer would be clear. To me the answer does not seem clear. One of the reasons I love training in HKD so much is that it is flexible and adaptable to what is most effective. If I use ahn-Son-Mok Sul (Boo Chae, outward fan wrist lock) on a person and take them down to the ground and then I sit out into Juji-gatame (cross armlock/reverse armbar) and they tap (for training) or the arm breaks (IRL) have I diluted HKD in some way. I don't think so. Sorry that got longer than I was hoping it would. Coming out of lurk mode will do that to you. Edward --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Chrysten Pobje" To: Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:58:10 +1100 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Drunken Kung Fu vs. Karate Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "I didn't think there actually WAS a style called Drunken Kung-Fu (or Drunken Fist, or Drunken Boxing, etc.). I thought that was just something that was made up for the movies (Jackie Chan being the main culprit). Jye, is this a real style? Do you have any info or web resources?" In answer to the above, yes there is a style called DrunkenKung Fu. I saw it demonstrated in Beijing in 1992 by he then Grandmaster. I also bought the Chineese English manual. The movie you are referring to was a Jacking Chan modernisation of an early seventies movie called the Drunken Master. This style also appeared in another movie which I think was called something like 'Kung Fu vs Ninja'. It is a very difficult style to learn beacause of the flexability required to execute the moves just like somwone who is drunk, which makes it very difficult overcome someone who is doing this style. Sinbad Sword practioner "Protect the lives of the weak as you would protect your own" --__--__-- Message: 6 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:09:00 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Music to hit people to Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Man, don't even get me started on this subject. Music is fuel for the soul, baby! Ok, I'm already started. Check it... More Human Than Human - Rob Zombie Living Dead Girl - Rob Zombie Follow Me - Puff Daddy (Godzilla Soundtrack) Battle Without Honor or Humanity - Tomoyasu Hotei (Kill Bill Soundtrack) Show Me How to Live - Audioslave Demolition Man - Sting (Demolition Man Soundtrack) Conan the Barbarian Soundtrack (all tracks) - Basil Poledouris Space Lord - Monster Magnet Sabotage - Beastie Boys So Watcha Want - Beastie Boys Where the Hood At - DMX Wicked - Ice Cube Momma Said Knock You Out - LL Cool J 99 Problems - Jay-Z Hot Blooded - Foreigner Desire - U2 Let the Bodies Hit the Floor - Drowning Pool Cult of Personality - Living Colour Click Click Boom - Saliva Back in Black - AC/DC Immigrant Song - Led Zeppelin In Bloom - Nirvana CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:42:23 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Music to hit people to To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Whoa...go head Cstovall!!! Ice cube, DMX, JayZ...whew, we got a fighter on our hands...lol. I typically train to either my own music, or to people like dead prez, wu tang clan, mobb deep, big pun, etc I love hip hop. Now when I work out with weights, I listen to rock and roll...typically 60's-80's rock and was the "tradition" established by my personal trainer before I moved. I found that being a hip hop artist myself, when I listen to hip hop while trying to lift weights it's distracting because I can't stop listening to and analyzing the lyrics, whereas with listening to rock, it's just uncut power transmitted by their instruments and voices. Hard to explain. Jye CStovall@nucorar.com wrote: <<>> Man, don't even get me started on this subject. Music is fuel for the soul, baby! Ok, I'm already started. Check it... More Human Than Human - Rob Zombie Living Dead Girl - Rob Zombie Follow Me - Puff Daddy (Godzilla Soundtrack) Battle Without Honor or Humanity - Tomoyasu Hotei (Kill Bill Soundtrack) Show Me How to Live - Audioslave Demolition Man - Sting (Demolition Man Soundtrack) Conan the Barbarian Soundtrack (all tracks) - Basil Poledouris Space Lord - Monster Magnet Sabotage - Beastie Boys So Watcha Want - Beastie Boys Where the Hood At - DMX Wicked - Ice Cube Momma Said Knock You Out - LL Cool J 99 Problems - Jay-Z Hot Blooded - Foreigner Desire - U2 Let the Bodies Hit the Floor - Drowning Pool Cult of Personality - Living Colour Click Click Boom - Saliva Back in Black - AC/DC Immigrant Song - Led Zeppelin In Bloom - Nirvana CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1900 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:39:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] IOC Board seeks Kim's ouster Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net IOC Board Seeks Korean Official's Ouster By STEPHEN WILSON Thursday, February 10, 2005 (02-10) 10:50 PST TURIN, Italy (AP) -- IOC leaders recommended Thursday that Kim Un-yong be expelled permanently from the organization because of corruption charges in South Korea. He would be the highest-ranking delegate kicked out of the IOC. Kim, an IOC vice president under suspension since last year, violated ethical principles and "seriously tarnished the reputation of the Olympic movement," according to the International Olympic Committe's ethics commission. A final decision goes to the full IOC general assembly, which meets in July in Singapore. A two-thirds vote of the 100-plus members is required for expulsion. IOC president Jacques Rogge has a "zero tolerance" policy on ethical misconduct. IOC spokeswoman Giselle Davies said the board _ acting on the ethics commission's recommendation _ voted unanimously in a secret ballot to oust Kim. Rogge doesn't vote and two board members were absent, leaving 12 delegates to vote. Kim, 73, will be entitled to defend himself at the IOC session either in person or in writing. He is currently in jail in South Korea. Kim, who finished second to Rogge in the IOC presidential election in 2001, was suspended from all of his IOC posts a year ago after his arrest on embezzlement and bribery charges in South Korea. That country's Supreme Court upheld his two-year prison term last month, clearing the way for the IOC to consider expulsion. Kim has maintained his innocence and called the charges politically motivated. His daughter, Helen Kim, sent a letter to Rogge last month urging the IOC to act "in fairness" and maintain his IOC membership. One of the most powerful figures in international sports, Kim played a leading role in Seoul's hosting of the 1988 Olympics and was instrumental in getting taekwondo approved as a medal sport starting with the 2000 Sydney Games. Ten IOC members resigned or were expelled in 1999 in the Salt Lake City scandal. Kim received a severe warning in that case. The IOC board already proposed the expulsion of Bulgarian member Ivan Slavkov, who was implicated last year in an undercover BBC program on alleged corruption in the host city bidding process. Kim was convicted of embezzling from the World Taekwondo Federation, the World Taekwondo Headquarters and other sports organizations he controlled. He was also convicted of embezzling $676,000 from money donated by South Korea's Samsung Electronics Co. The money was given to the World Taekwondo Federation and the General Association of International Sports Federations, both of which were headed by Kim. He was accused of using the money to help finance his IOC presidential bid. --__--__-- Message: 9 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Music to hit people to Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:54:12 -0500 From: "Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)" To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Every time I pop in the Mortal Kombat soundtrack my two boys come out of the woodwork and we have a fun free-for-all sparring and wrestling match......fun way too fun!.....they LOVE it. Brian Woodard -----Original Message----- From: CStovall@nucorar.com [mailto:CStovall@nucorar.com] Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:09 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Music to hit people to <<>> Man, don't even get me started on this subject. Music is fuel for the soul, baby! Ok, I'm already started. Check it... <>> --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest