Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 03:04:19 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #60 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1900 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Music to hit people to (Jye nigma) 2. RE: Ground Techniques Revisited (CStovall@nucorar.com) 3. Re: Terms (Bruce Sims) 4. RE: HKD, Ground work, and cross training (CStovall@nucorar.com) 5. RE: hapkido ground techniques (Howard Spivey) 6. RE: music to train by (Howard Spivey) 7. RE: RE: Music to hit people to (Kip McCormick) 8. Re: RE: HKD, Ground work, and cross training (Edward) 9. Re: Re: Terms (Edward) 10. Re: Re: Terms (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:41:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Music to hit people to To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you like KRS-1 don't forget about public enemy and in the same vein check out dead prez. Dead prez actually has a song about the pros and cons of training in martial arts, and they have a song about doing push ups. Man I could do forms, sparring, etc etc to any of their albums or mixed tapes (that's traditionally a tape that contains remixed and promotional music from artists). Their song walk like a warrior is somewhat laidback and good for forms, or stretching. Way of life sample (about martial arts training): http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/clipserve/B0001MDPOK001010/0/103-0065177-3222223 50 in the clip sample (about push ups) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/clipserve/B0001MDPOK001009/0/103-0065177-3222223 Walk like a warrior sample: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/clipserve/B0001MDPOK001002/0/103-0065177-3222223 Edward wrote: If you are listening to KRS-1 and BDP but you are looking for something more current you might want to check out Outkast. They have a song called Bombs over Bagdad that is great for getting your sweat on, as the kids say. Thanks for the Nina Simone tip. I would have never thought to use her during sticky lock flow drills. Cool. Edward --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' --__--__-- Message: 2 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:05:54 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Ground Techniques Revisited Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<< I have seen a lot of the Hapkido joint locks (wrist twist, wrist lock, arm lock, "standing" arm bar, etc) that work standing up fail miserably if tried executed from the ground as they're too easy to roll/drop away from. Obviously you can't lower your weight on a lock if you're already down.>>> This is an interesting observation. I've actually submitted people with wrist locks while rolling, and I can say from experience that the opportunities to wrist lock someone from the ground are somewhat limited. They most often occur while in the guard, and when the person is resisting the cross armlock (juji-gatame) by gripping his own hands/wrists/sleeves. >From my understanding, aiki-based wrist locking applications work best when combined with certain stepping patterns and level changes. As you hinted, on the ground you can't step or change levels so you're kind of just left with attacking the wrist without any additional leverage other than what you can muster with weight shifting or positional change. For this reason (and my own experience) they're fairly easy to beat on the ground because of the articulation of the wrist (they just squirm or twist out), using the "off-hand" to wrestle out of the attack, and just by generating muscular tension to resist and "ride out" the attack. Having said all that, I've begun watching more for wrist locks while on the ground because they can end things VERY quickly when applied correctly (just have to be careful). Grabbing and twisting the fingers would also change the dynamics a bit, but we're just not willing to go THERE in my club. <<< One last point I would like to make before I get off this subject. Ground techniques (BJJ or whatever!) are a little more tricky than just grabbing someone's nads, poking them in the eye, biting their thigh, etc...yes, I know that may work 90% of the time,...until you face someone drunk/stoned/numb enough not to feel it and you JUST might need to know an escape or two before you try and get outta Dodge.>>> For me, developing a "game" (in this case a "ground game") is kind of like filling a big glass container with different sized rocks. Some rocks are big, and some rocks are small. The eye-gouging/nut grabbing stuff is all fine and good because it certainly works. For me, that stuff represents the little pebbles that fill in all of the cracks and gaps that's left after I've put in the big rocks. The big rocks represent positional dominance, escapes based on technique and leverage, and submissions/chokes/attacks that have been "fire tested" by myself and others. You can learn how to gouge someone's eye in five minutes. It can take years to become a competent grappler (or puncher, or kicker, or weapons practitioner, etc). The ART in "Martial Art", and the SCIENCE in "Martial Science" begins and ends with the big rocks. Just some stuff to chew on. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:07:18 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Terms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".... Does anyone here know the Korean for Uki/Tori? We always used the term partner." How about "Sun Soo" ("attacker") and "Hoo Soo" ("defender")? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:37:46 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: HKD, Ground work, and cross training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<< If I use ahn-Son-Mok Sul(Boo Chae, outward fan wrist lock) on a person and take them down to the ground and then I sit out into Juji-gatame (cross armlock/reverse armbar) and they tap (for training) or the arm breaks (IRL) have I diluted HKD in some way. I don't think so>>> I don't think so either. If everyone agrees that Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu is the core root art of Hapkido, then there's sure been a lot of "dilution" since Choi, Yong Sul. Evidently, at some point someone came along and said "this stuff needs more striking", and various kicking and striking methods were added. Weapons like swords, knives, fans, and canes found their way into the Hapkido arts. I believe GM Ji came along and added material to deal with Boxing style punches, and Judo style attacks. Who knows what the next big evolution will be? One thing's for sure, the so-called "purists" are hurting more than helping because the people that came before them were not purists by any stretch of the imagination. Lots of changing and evolving occurred, and this didn't happen by accident. It was driven by the practitioners and the leaders. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:00:31 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: hapkido ground techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net brooke thomas wrote: "I have seen a lot of the Hapkido joint locks (wrist twist, wrist lock, arm lock, "standing" arm bar, etc)that work standing up fail miserably if tried executed from the ground as they're too easy to roll/drop away from..." please pardon me if i'm misinterpreting your meaning, but it seems to me that if i'm on the ground on my back , with an opponent on top of me, and i apply any joint lock (even a finger lock) that makes him roll or drop away, that means he's no longer going to be on top of me, right?... am i understanding you correctly? further... "Unfortunately I think I may have spoken too much BJJ-speak on a KMA forum and I do not have the Korean terms to explain what KMArtists may alredy refer to as the exact same thing(?)..." no problem brooke, just use the english terms! btw, out of curiosity, do the brazilians use japanese or portuguese terms to refer to bjj techniques? i know at the very least that they use "jiu jitsu" rather than jujustsu, probably because the closest you can come to the hard "j" sound in brazilian portuguese is the letter "d" before either an "i" or an "e", and that sound doesn't exist in the portuguese spoken in portugal. in brazilian portuguese, the j's in jiu jitsu are pronounced roughly like the zh sound in english (think of "azure"...). if you already know all this esoteric stuff, sorry... regards, howard --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:05:59 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: music to train by Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net to craig stovall... anybody who listens to both audioslave and living colour is ok in my book... ever try throwing in a little steve vai or recent king crimson? --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Music to hit people to Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:10:41 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What about Kenny G? The Village People? Macy's Top 10 MUZAK hits? Barry Manilow? The Carpenters Greatest Hits? We've only just begun, to inflict pain... Kip --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 19:19:30 -0600 From: Edward To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: HKD, Ground work, and cross training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cheers. Either Darwin was wrong or evolution IS good. Edward CStovall@nucorar.com wrote: ><<< If I use ahn-Son-Mok Sul(Boo Chae, outward fan wrist lock) on a person >and take them down to the ground and then I sit out into Juji-gatame (cross >armlock/reverse armbar) and they tap (for training) or the arm breaks (IRL) >have I diluted HKD in some way. I don't think so>>> > >I don't think so either. If everyone agrees that Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu is >the core root art of Hapkido, then there's sure been a lot of "dilution" >since Choi, Yong Sul. Evidently, at some point someone came along and said >"this stuff needs more striking", > Who knows what then ext big evolution will be? One thing's for sure, the so-called "purists" are hurting more than helping because the people that came before them were not purists by any stretch of the imagination. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 19:20:18 -0600 From: Edward To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Terms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks! After 5 years that is the first time I have heard these terms. Edward Bruce Sims wrote: >".... Does anyone here know the Korean for Uki/Tori? >We always used the term partner." > >How about "Sun Soo" ("attacker") and "Hoo Soo" >("defender")? > >Best Wishes, > >Bruce >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1900 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Terms To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 17:47:44 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ".... Does anyone here know the Korean for Uki/Tori? > We always used the term partner." > > How about "Sun Soo" ("attacker") and "Hoo Soo" ("defender")? Listmember Panama City Ramon also mentioned this a couple years ago... "I learned that Tori (receiver) and Uke (attacker) are based on the basic terms Defense or Maki and Attack or Kongyok so this would be MakiSa for defender and kongyokSa for attacker or they can be Makiui for when you are the defender and kongyokui when you say I am the Attacker." Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest