Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 10:56:52 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #77 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: BJJ Clip (Bruce Sims) 2. Re: BJJ Clip (Bruce Sims) 3. BJJ... (Clint Cayson) 4. Being well rounded (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 5. HapKiDo Vs. BJJ or any style vs. another (Don Kirsch) 6. RE: Brazilian jujutsu (CStovall@nucorar.com) 7. Question for Rudy (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 8. Position Before Submission (Brooke Thomas) 9. University of Missouri Museum Korean Archery Exhibit Online (Kickin' Family) 10. Re: Position Before Submission (Ray Terry) 11. Re: Re: BJJ Clip (Ray Terry) 12. Grandmaster applies sport's discipline to political conflict (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:43:27 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: BJJ Clip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "......If you don't practice your "deadly" techniques at mach speed with power and all the disadvantages of terain and clothing against a person who is bent on slamming the back of your head on the ground and wrapping you up like a cheap christmas present then you really have no idea of what works and what does not work....." Yes. This is exactly my point. I will tease out a single example. In the clip, there is a smothering of kicks or strikes followed by a kind of tackle which exposed the back to a Descending Elbow Srike. True to form the tackled individual executed the strike--- to the Middle of the Back. The focus of this strike needed to be the base of the skull and executed with sufficient committment to fx the spine or separate the skull from the spine at the Atlas. What I see is that the person performing the technique had a.) never had to execute that technique from a position of disadvantage b.) never had to execute that technique with sufficient force to inflict structural damage c.)was not correctly tutored in acquiring the appropriate target for a specific situation. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:49:37 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: BJJ Clip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "....Bruce, the only thing that I can say is go find a BJJ purple belt, get on the mat with them and roll around for a while. Not a fight, just a friendly little roll. You may be surprised at what conclusions you come to from actual experience as opposed to watching 12-year old challenge match footage from the comfort of your chair....." Yes. That is exactly my point. I don't know how other people see Hapkido arts from the comfort of their commercial posture. As far as I am concerned in Hapkido there is no "friendly little roll". From where I sit--- or stand--- or recline-- Hapkido is a martial art, not a martial sport. The purpose is to end the fight not accrue adulation or garner renown. That is my only point. Nothing more. Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:23:11 -0500 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] BJJ... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Mr. Tomlinson, After reading your post, I came to a point that you gave more adulation to a BJJ fighter. No disrespect but I find it hard to understand that BJJ is the most dangerous martial art. I'm not an expert in the field of martial arts but I know one thing that most of us would agree - it depends on how the person (martial artist) fights. Not all the time you get the same probability of tossing the same side of a coin. My point is that any martial art is dangerous; it is the persons' fighting skills matters. Just a simple thought. Respectfully, Clint -- __--__-- ~~snip~~ I'm sorry for breaking anyone's bubble on here but if you think for an instant that you can go into a real fight with a skilled BJJ player and gouge his eyes out, use a debilitating kick on him, or any of the other techniques you practice at half speed at best you are living in a self pontificating dangerous dream world. This is not directed personally at Bruce so take this as a blanket statement from someone who has wrestled, done submission grappling, done judo, and teaches Hapkido. If you don't practice your "deadly" techniques at mach speed with power and all the disadvantages of terain and clothing against a person who is bent on slamming the back of your head on the ground and wrapping you up like a cheap christmas present then you really have no idea of what works and what does not work. ~~Snip~~ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:46:44 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Being well rounded Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael I am on the same page with you here. My base is Soo Bahk Do and I am in the Moo Duk Kwan Federation. I believe it is a well rounded art, however I have been cross training in Jujitsu for about 15 years now. Being a one dimensional fighter only works when the person you are fighting is in the same dimension. I agree it is not as easy to strike a grappler during the shoot as some think it is, However if you prepare to sprawl and can avoid the shoot a striker can take the grappler out of his game and be very effective. I think this is a question of why a person is training to begin with. If you are training because you enjoy the art and the exercise then cross training may not be important. If you are training because you want to be realistic about full contact fighting when there are no rules, then cross training is important. I don't mean being a 9th degree in 12 twelve styles. That is fiction. I mean have a good base, an then fill in the blanks by cross training. Respectfully JC --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Don Kirsch" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:45:31 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] HapKiDo Vs. BJJ or any style vs. another Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just wanted to throw in my two cents on the subject of HapKiDo vs. BJJ or any style vs. any other style. This is from the perspective of someone who cut his teeth during the kick boxing and Texas tournament scene of the 1970's. When any one style meets another style it's usually the practitioner who is best at his art who wins the fight (or match). I don't know much about BJJ or the Gracies but they appear to be very skilled in what they do and that's why they win fights and their style has become so well known. If you are enjoying the art you are studying don't get caught up in this age old debate of which style is the ultimate style. As someone who is reaching the magic half way point of 50 years young I can tell you no matter how hard you try you do lose some speed and strength with age. There is always going to be someone a little younger and stronger or maybe who practices what they do better and more often than you. The aging part you can delay by proper conditioning and constant training. The practicing part just requires continual quality practices. If you get the opportunity to train with someone from another art don't let your ego get in the way of learning. Every style has its strengths and weakness. The more you learn about your art of choice and the others you encounter the more well rounded of a martial artist you become. Paraphrasing Master Rich Hodder the ultimate martial arts style is "ching, ching, pow". The sound of the chambering and firing a 45 pistol. If you really want to be the biggest bad ass on the block go to the firing range and shoot 1,000 rounds a day from either hand and different firing positions. There probably is the ultimate bad ass some where in the world. Most likely they are either in solitary confinement in the federal prison system or over in the deserts and mountains hunting the bad guys. Just my opinion. Regards to all Don Kirsch --__--__-- Message: 6 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:12:38 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Brazilian jujutsu Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I'm reminded of the INFAMOUS challenge match where Ryan Gracie supposedly bit a chunk out of a guy's ear after getting the back position on him. Evidently, the guy was pretty verbal about his supposed ability to "bite and gouge" his way out of the jiu-jitsu style hold downs and positions. I guess that was Ryan's idea of "irony". Then again...he has a reputation for being a bit "out there". CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. 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Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:37:17 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Question for Rudy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rudy: A while back you mentioned something about doing some concrete breaking out in the parking lot during the Jackson seminar like you did two years ago. Will you still be doing that? Thank you. James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:39:51 -0800 (PST) From: Brooke Thomas To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Position Before Submission Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael & Craig- Awesome last posts! It would seem that the likelyhood of having an altercation with someone with any kind of "training"...that training very likely will be wrestling. How many ex-high school or ex-college guys wrestle? Therefore it just might be a great idea to train to defend the shoots and in the event you do go down, know how to fight to get favorable position. Is this cross-training or training in two arts at once...or taking your eye off the Hapkido ball? That's for you to decide. Out of curiousity, wasn't there a Kuk Sul Won guy that fought in the first few UFCs? I remember seeing him win his first fight where he won using a crucifix while raining down elbows on his opponents unguarded noodle. Did anyone here see HBO special "Smashing Machine: The Life and Times of Mark Kerr"? Here is a former high school/collegiate olympic-hopeful that worked his art (under the tutlege of Mark Colman) into the "ground and pound." His type of frontal attack looked far more scary to me than the Gracie video Jye posted. Essentially face your opponent, look for a shoot, dive to the legs, get POSITION, and pound his head flat. Could that type of attack happen in the street, in a bar, in a house? Is knowing how to defend against that type of attack only useful in a cage? Brooke Thomas Hapkido Blend --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Kickin' Family" To: Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:57:09 -0600 Organization: Kickin' Family Subject: [The_Dojang] University of Missouri Museum Korean Archery Exhibit Online Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://coas.missouri.edu/anthromuseum/minigalleries/koreanarchery/intro.html **bows** - Bert Edens Springdale, Arkansas --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Position Before Submission To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:19:09 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Out of curiousity, wasn't there a Kuk Sul Won guy that > fought in the first few UFCs? I remember seeing him > win his first fight where he won using a crucifix > while raining down elbows on his opponents unguarded > noodle. I think that was Gary Goodridge. He has continued to fight, but I don't see much KSW in his technique. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: BJJ Clip To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:33:37 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > "....Bruce, the only thing that I can say is go find a > BJJ purple belt, get on the mat with them and roll > around for a while. Not a fight, just a friendly > little roll. You may be surprised at what conclusions > you come to from actual experience as opposed to > watching 12-year old challenge match > footage from the comfort of your chair....." > > Yes. That is exactly my point. I don't know how other > people see Hapkido arts from the comfort of their > commercial posture. As far as I am concerned in > Hapkido there is no "friendly little roll". From where > I sit--- or stand--- or recline-- Hapkido is a martial > art, not a martial sport. The purpose is to end the > fight not accrue adulation or garner renown. That is > my only point. Nothing more. fwiw, I suspect Royce and/or others would be glad to go up against (most?) any unarmed challenger of any background and have no rules involved. Their dojo is just down the road, a few hours, and many have walked in for a roll. These guys are pretty crazy. And given they've been doing these matches for many years for fun -and- profit, they have gotten pretty good. But you gotta sign the waver first... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:47:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Grandmaster applies sport's discipline to political conflict Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Chan-Yong Kim Power in humility Martial arts grandmaster applies sport's discipline to political conflict By Jenny Marder www.presstelegram.com Long Beach, CA CERRITOS -- At the start of every tae kwan do fight, the competitors must bow to each other. The bow, vital to the event, connotes respect and humility. Grandmaster Kim said it's in the humility where strength resides. "If you are humble, people tend to respect you," he said. Chan-Yong Kim is trying to grab one of two empty seats in the March 8 City Council election. Every morning, the 69-year-old grandmaster wakes up before sunrise, loads up his bicycle basket with campaign literature and begins crisscrossing the city to collect votes. He starts with the early risers at parks and other public areas, before going door to door. "I scare a lot of people," Kim jokes. "I'm tall and husky." But what else could you expect from an international martial arts legend? Kim, who has a ninth-degree black belt in tae kwan do, a ninth-degree black belt in yu-do and a sixth degree black belt in hapkido, owns a tae kwan do studio in Cerritos and has taught countless students. He also trained his son Jimmy Kim, who won the sport's 1988 Olympic gold medal, despite a broken toe and 102-degree fever. Kim is confident that his background has prepared him for city government. As a referee chairman of the World Tae Kwan Do Federation, Kim is accustomed to resolving conflict, a skill that he said will come in handy as a council member. "People look at me as Korean," he said. "But when you referee, you have to be neutral. You have to forget about what country you're in, what religion you are, what color you are. ... And as a City Council member, I am not going to play politics. I'm going to use my philosophy, my belief and my integrity to gain my ground." Education is central to Kim's campaign. He thinks the city should offer more after-school tutoring programs. "I strongly believe that in a capitalistic society, some are very rich and some are very poor, and there needs to be an open avenue for less fortunate people to excel at their education." If elected, Kim plans to work closely with the school board to provide such an avenue by giving students after-school access to computer rooms, meeting rooms and open space for sports and academic programs. He also wants to see more neighborhood watch programs, additional funding for police and improved traffic flow. It was Councilwoman Laura Lee who first inspired Kim to become involved in public service, Kim said. She approached his studio three times and asked him to join a commission. The first two times, he said, "No Laura, I cannot do that, I don't have time," Kim recalled. "The second time, I said, 'Sorry I can't do that." The third time though, Kim recalls Lee telling him, "It's about time for you to do something for your community." He knew she was right. So he joined the Property Preservation Commission, where he has served for the past two years. Kim has formed a structured campaign team, headquartered around the corner from his studio. There, office walls are blanketed with profiles of each candidate, statistics on previous city elections and an aerial map of the city that volunteers refer to for walking precincts. Educating voters is also key to the campaign. Kim's brochures, modeled after a ballot, stress that each voter has two votes, with Kim's name highlighted and magnified. "I am a nice fellow and can be approached in any direction," Kim said, in slightly broken English, adding with a smile, "but if somebody approaches me, I know how to punch and kick them, too." --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest