Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 03:04:14 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #78 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Position Before Submission (CStovall@nucorar.com) 2. Why we need central authority in taekwondo (Tkdsid@aol.com) 3. Re: Why we need central authority in taekwondo (Ray Terry) 4. Re: BJJ Clip (CStovall@nucorar.com) 5. RE: HapKiDo Vs. BJJ or any style vs. another (CStovall@nucorar.com) 6. Re: BJJ Clip (CStovall@nucorar.com) 7. Defense to Tackle (Brooke Thomas) 8. Deadly techniques (Randall Sexton) 9. Re: Re: BJJ Clip (Edward) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:10:29 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Position Before Submission Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> That was Gary Goodridge. He has fought in everything from the UFC, to Pride, and more recently in K-1. He was never a KSW Black Belt. Some cats from a KSW school offered him a KSW BB if he agreed to "represent" their style in the UFC. From what I have read, he attended all of three classes. The crucifix move he learned from a friend who was a wrestler. He intensively trained that move for weeks before the fights. Right before the event, someone scouted Paul Hererra and noticed that he always shot for a single leg takedown and then relayed this info back to Goodridge. Sure enough, Hererra shot for the single leg and got caught because Gary was ready for him. I remember watching that live when it happened. I was absolutely stunned at the beating he took. It's still considered one of the worst beatings in MMA history. <<>> The worst beatings I've ever seen people take is after they've been knocked to the ground, sat upon, and punched with impunity. It's just a natural thing to do when you're trying to hurt somebody. I saw "the mount" in street fights and school scuffles a heck of a long time before I ever knew there was such a thing as "Gracie/Brazilian Jiu-jitsu". It's also one of the reasons that I knew I had to learn that stuff after I saw it. I basically said to myself, "Yep, that's what happens in a real fight". CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Tkdsid@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:13:37 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Why we need central authority in taekwondo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear fellow tkd'ers I have heard all the arguments now. "THIS is America...why should we send our fees to Korea!" " The last president of the WTF is in jail...the whole thing is corrupt." "What is ITF after General Choi? Will the real ITF please stand up?" Yes, of course, there are issues. Some small and some large. After having gotten my first dan through the kukkiwon, I was tested with a master in Staten Island, NY. It's been a year and I haven't yet gotten my kukkiwon (2nd dan). THAT stuff didn't ever happen with the WTF, nor do I suspect did it happen with the ITF. I strongly advise everyone to avoid splinter taekwondo groups. Train and test ONLY with the AAU,ITF or WTF. Everything else is at your peril and I GUARANTEE the "Hacks" are "Worthless". (I'll let everyone here figure out who I meant by my last remark! Sid Rubinfeld --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Why we need central authority in taekwondo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:22:09 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >After having gotten my first dan through the kukkiwon, I was tested with a >master in Staten Island, NY. It's been a year and I haven't yet gotten my >kukkiwon (2nd dan). THAT stuff didn't ever happen with the WTF, nor do I suspect did >it happen with the ITF. I strongly advise everyone to avoid splinter taekwondo >groups. Train and test ONLY with the AAU,ITF or WTF. People are not WTF blackbelts, they are Kukkiwon blackbelts. The WTF is the world governing body. The Kukkiwon is the World TKD Academy and TKD Headquarters. Thus it really isn't proper to say you are WTF, individuals cannot be members of the WTF. You are Kukkiwon or Kukki-Taekwondo. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:24:07 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: BJJ Clip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> My only point is to go check it out, and see if the reality of real grappling on the ground might change your perspective. You've come to a certain conclusion from watching video clips, and I've come to a certain conclusion from having actually done it. That's where you and I differ. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:32:17 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: HapKiDo Vs. BJJ or any style vs. another Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> That's pure wisdom right there, folks. We live in the world of the knife and the gun, and martial arts of the civilian variety are ill-equipped to deal with the physics of blades and firearms. Even if there were one style that was the "King of all Martial Arts" it would still be incapable of dealing with most "real world violence". As to the question "who is most dangerous"...it's most often not the guy/gal who is CAPABLE of hurting you. I know a lot of trained folks who are about as dangerous as church mice simply because they have no intention of hurting anyone. It's the predators out there who are WILLING to hurt people in order to get whatever they want that are the folks you have to worry about. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:54:13 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: BJJ Clip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> How many people's necks have YOU broken like this? How about your teachers? How about your students? How about anyone that you know? Nobody knows what "sufficient commitment" means because they've never done it. How many pounds of pressure do you think it would take to fracture a man's spine like this? Have any JAMA studies been done on this? And you could do this while moving backwards? While defending the takedown? Puhleeeeeezzzzzzz... Just so you know that I'm "fair and balanced"...Royce's takedown attempt was absolutely terrible. If he did that against a modern MMA fighter or a good wrestler with some striking ability he'd be picking his teeth up off the floor. An uppercut to the jaw could have dropped him in his tracks quite possibly. There's a dozen ways to have thwarted that takedown attempt. But, a "Mortal Kombat Killa Decapitation Elbow" to the back of the neck AIN'T one of them. You might wanna cut back on the hubris there, Bruce. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:16:07 -0800 (PST) From: Brooke Thomas To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Defense to Tackle Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To follow up Mr. Sims comments..."followed by a kind of tackle which exposed the back to a Descending Elbow Srike"...I would imagine that trying to acurately smash the back of someone's skull (who is in full flight) just might have a low percentage of success?....especially if the shooter dives even lower for a single leg take-down and uses his shoulder against the shin to complete the take-down. I find a better defense for me, and depending upon the situation/position, is to strike upwards with the knees as the shooter drops in (trying to be as careful as possible with training partners). Did you see the recent UFC between Kimo and Ken Shamrock? It was over in like 10 seconds as Kimo shot to the legs and Shamrock up-cut with a knee and Kimo was KOed. End of fight. Sprawling is a great defense though then you're on the ground and if you've instinctively wrapped your arms around the shooter, it's not that hard for him to pin your arms to his chest and roll you on your back with him on you facing upwards (followed by a reversal, etc). Then it's good to know a few more position-securing ground moves. Just some thoughts. Brooke Thomas Hapkido Blend --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:28:16 -1000 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Randall Sexton Subject: [The_Dojang] Deadly techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Where do you get new training partners at...as one dies each session? Randy >"......If you don't practice your "deadly" techniques >at mach speed with power and all the >disadvantages of terain and clothing against a person >who is bent on slamming the back of your head on the >ground and wrapping you up like a cheap christmas >present then you really have no idea of what works and >what does not work....." --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 19:28:19 -0600 From: Edward To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: BJJ Clip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Bruce, A question for you. Have you ever "rolled" with a trained ground fighter? I have spend several years learning and teaching HKD. And a couple training in Judo/Ground fighting. I understand your points but unless you have experienced these techniques, it is hard to understand the mechanics. If you are facing a person who knows how to shoot for one or two leg picks your ideas about which strike to choose go out the window. Once you are off your feet and you know the ground is coming up on you fast your ability to execute a precision strike is a lot less likely. You also mentioned that there are no friendly "rolls" when you train in HKD. Is that to mean that when you execute in class a throw from a locked wrist you are always breaking each others wrists in every class? You see my point? There is a heck of a lot to learn from two people playing cat and mouse games with each other. trying to figure out what your liabilities would be in the real world. In HKD we train for NakBup in class to build conditioning. We also train for falls you might want to use if you were outside on say, concrete. There is a difference in training for the art and training for the real world. that's the view from my side of the fence. Edward true to form the tackled >individual executed the strike--- to the Middle of the >Back. The focus of this strike needed to be the base >of the skull and executed with sufficient committment >to fx the spine or separate the skull from the spine >at the Atlas. What I see is that the person performing >the technique had >a.) never had to execute that technique from a >position of disadvantage >b.) never had to execute that technique with >sufficient force to inflict structural damage >c.)was not correctly tutored in acquiring the >appropriate target for a specific situation. FWIW. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest