Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 03:05:35 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #81 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Open Letter to DD Contributors (ABurrese@aol.com) 2. Re: Open Letter to DD Contributors (Brooke Thomas) 3. You are ignoring my point.... (Master Arce) 4. Re: You are purposely ignoring my point (Brian Beach) 5. Re: Re: Its how you train that counts (Robert Demers) 6. Re: Re: Apples and Oranges (Ray) 7. Bruce.. you have GOT to be kidding me (Frank Clay) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:28:51 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Open Letter to DD Contributors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, Due to time constraints with a book I am working on that has to be done soon I have not joined in with the HKD comments. (My agent in NY has to come before DD right now) I did want to take a moment to say that was a very good post, and will help others see where you are coming from in regards to HKD. I tend to agree with you on most of those points, but I see many who don't. I just had three new students join my HKD class. They said my classes were nothing like the HKD they had previously done. Maybe that is because what they were doing before wasn't really HKD. At the same time, I have to recognize that not every student is there for the same reason, and not every student will have the same commitment. So even though I agree with you on many things, and that is how I practice and live HKD, I know many others do not feel the same way. It is not up to me to change them. I can show and discuss what I do. I can lead by example. I can also talk bad about some of the HKD out there and things that I think hurt the entire art, but I try to limit this because what real good does it do. I can just keep doing what I do, and when people come over and see that it is different from others who just added a few HKD techniques to their curriculum, they can make a decision as to what they want to learn and who they want to learn from. People have different goals and different reasons for training. Some come to my classes and what I do does not fit what they want. So be it. I tell them up front if they want to compete in TKD or Karate tournaments to go somewhere else. I don't do that, and I won't teach you how to win in those. Stuff I teach will get you kicked out of those places, and things you do to win in those environments I'll tell you not to do. Anyway, the point is that you make some very good points, and you clarified what HKD is to you. However, you must realize that not everyone will feel the same, and it is not worth it to get confrontational with people regarding this. I understand your frustrations at times, but it is how you handle frustrations that helps you grow. I better get back to working on that book..... Yours in Training, Alain www.burrrese.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 08:24:58 -0800 (PST) From: Brooke Thomas To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Open Letter to DD Contributors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Sims- It is apparent to me that you do not view me as senior enough on this list to respond to my questions/posts. I can live with that. However I will keep responding to your posts. First of all, I sure would like to see the form of Hapkido you practice. You seem to have the utmost confidence in your art and I envy the comfort that you have achieved in knowing your Hapkido has an answer for any/all situations. I do have few couple of questions though (I always seem to have a lot of questions). As we all know, money has changed the martial arts. If Hapkido was the end-all (key word here) "one-on-one" fighting art, why wouldn't some Hapkido bad-a$$ take on all comers, who signed the right legal documents, and market Hapkido as the new ultimate art? Go to a country that doesn't have any lawyers, get it taped or on pay-per-view, and show that Hapkido can kill any other "art". That's essentially what Helio Gracie did in Brasil many years ago...he put out flyers taking on all comers,...and I imagine lots of these comers had all the dirty tricks/secret moves/vicious gouges/death touches at the ready...and none of these comers took home the win and there were lots of challegers and lots of witnesses. I mentioned "one-on-one" as I believe Hapkido is a great art for fighting multiple opponents, fighting armed opponents, etc. BJJ is a great art for fighting one-on-one. Always remember (and all the BJJ guys laugh about this), all the finger breaking, eye gouges, eardrum/nose/throat stuff you allude to, they can and will do that too...they just do it to you from a better/superior POSITION. Although I do not expect you to respond to this post based on past experience, please consider the question I posed related to the defence from shoots. I would like to hear from you/others what strategies/techniques you employ to defend against someone who is soley trying to get you onto the ground? Brooke Thomas Hapkido Blend --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:03:21 -0800 (PST) From: Master Arce To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] You are ignoring my point.... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As I say, go down to Torrance or send one of your blackbelt students down to Torrance to roll with one of their boys. Sign the waver, no rules. Use all the deadly techniques you wish. I suspect they will go along with whatever you're after. --- Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF MASTER TERRY! :) http://www.masterssite.com/images/MtrArce.gif __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Brian Beach Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:52:47 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: You are purposely ignoring my point Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Or just go down the road - http://www.graciejiujitsu.net/ Carlson Gracie Team - Jr. and Sr. are there. On Feb 27, 2005, at 6:05 AM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > As I say, go down to Torrance or send one of your blackbelt students > down to Torrance to roll with one of their boys. Sign the waver, no > rules. Use all the deadly techniques you wish. I suspect they will > go along with whatever you're afte --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Robert Demers" To: Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 17:03:35 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Re: Its how you train that counts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net " Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Its how you train that counts > > Dear Edward: > > ".....Is that to mean that when you execute in class a > throw from a locked wrist you are always breaking each > others wrists in every class? You see my > point? There is a heck of a lot to learn from two > people playing cat and mouse games with each > other.trying to figure out what your liabilities would > be in the real world......" > > I am not able to make up for all of the mistakes > people have made about Hapkido up to this point. On > this net alone I have read that people train Children > in Hapkido. I have read that people "compete in > Hapkido". I have heard that people eschew forms > training and weapons but still call what they do > Hapkido. I have no control over what other people do > but I can tell you that many of the dialogues on the > DD go 'round and 'round because people have bent > Hapkido so many different ways that it has become a > kind of joke any time someone wants to tout THEIR > particular art. It routinely gets bumped up against > the Japanese arts and found wanting. Then its bumped > up against BJJ and found wanting. Then its bumped up > against TKD and TSD and found wanting. Against > Kendo/kumdo and found wanting. Lets just stop a moment > and take a look at the question you asked. > > In Hapkido a partner works to stay a quarter-second > and a quarter-inch ahead of the technique you are > doing. It helps a LOT to know what is coming. In this > way you can execute the technique as hard as you want > and the person goes with it. You are NOT Throwing your > partner. You are using your partner as a target > against whom to train muscle memory. On the street a > person would not know you are going to do an Outer > Wrist Throw and would have his wrist fractured. On the > other hand, if the Hapkido practitioner is NOT up to > fracturing a persons' wrist, then I suggest that he > not pull his Hapkido out of its holster. > > In Hapkido I am NOT playing "cat and mouse". Its not > about playing "head games". The intent is lethal > force. The PURPOSE is to teach a student what they are > able to do, give them the power to be able to do these > things and then help them to develope the Character > NOT to use such tactics. Maybe the focus is MThand. > Maybe its a sword. Maybe its a glaive (aka: wol-do), > but the purpose is always the same.This is one of the > great conundrums of martial arts that practitioners of > martial sports are simply never going to understand. > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce " Hey Bruce, Thanks for your input and I totally agree with you. I learned this once when I tried a Hapkido technique out on a friend who was drunk and was being beligerant. He just sorta stood there and smiled at me because he wasn't feeling any pain. Bottom line, if you are going to use Hapkido then ya, you have to be willing to hurt someone. ^oo^ Bob --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Apples and Oranges To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:18:03 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > There is no need to debate anything because as long as > there are qualifiers we will be talking about two > different things. Examine some of the posts that have > been offered in response and you can draw your own > conclusions. > > 1.) Signing waivers. The waiver is only to limit -your- legal action once you are busted up. > 2.) Safety protocols. None needed. > 3.) Types that you are friendly with. Well, you are just a friendly type of guy... :) > The outcome is predictable as long as a limit is > placed on the Hapkido. No limits... well no firearms. They'd probably let you use a blade if you really wish (like I say, they are a little crazy). Go for it. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:31:45 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruce.. you have GOT to be kidding me Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, Have you ever been on the mat with one of these guys? They have a mantra... Tap, Snap or Nap. Just because someone chooses not to gouge an eye does not mean they don't know how to. Further, there are Hapkido games annually in Korea. Unless of course the Koreans are not doing real Hapkido either? Its time to awaken from the fantasy. You could not make it through a seminar with a teacher who is well respected, and you want to talk about what you would or would not do in real life? It seems to me that you have a very closed mind. I got on the mat with them. My first time, I came very close to going asleep, except I happened to bite down. I was pinned in such a manner that I could not breath or tap. My only alternative was to bite down. It worked and I enjoyed a few more bouts with those boys. Being friendly with someone just keeps you alive. Go into a BJJ school of someone you don't know with that attitude and see what happens. Better yet, film it. f. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest