Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 14:05:17 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #86 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Happy Birthday Mr. Dean Sr. (Master Mac) 2. Bruce said (J.R. West) 3. TKD clip (Patrick Baeder) 4. I really must have my two pennies... (Eric Walker) 5. true story (J R Hilland) 6. Way of the Water? (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 7. Off The Rails (Donnelly, Eamonn) 8. Martial Art (Brian Locke) 9. Re: Re: Thoughts from a killers' point of view.... (Neil Burton) 10. Re: Wanting to chime in...maybe.... (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 21:12:17 -0600 From: Master Mac To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Happy Birthday Mr. Dean Sr. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wishing Mr. Jeffery Dean Sr. a very happy birthday today! Mac --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 21:25:22 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruce said Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce said: " Its not like things have changed a whole helluva lot since 1973" Welcome home brother....JRW --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:01:44 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Baeder To: the Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD clip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the midst of all the BJJ vs. HapKiDo talk, here is a happy little diversion... http://www.compfused.com/directlink/665/ Patrick Baeder Auburn Academy of Martial Arts 323 Airport Road, Ste. F Auburn, Alabama 36830 334-502-7221 www.auburnacademy.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 22:17:30 -0600 From: Eric Walker To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] I really must have my two pennies... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've been a long time lurker on this DD. I've read the twists and turns and watched as many have come and gone. Read the arguments the attaboy's, and the gentle advice to newbies. I've always enjoyed the exchanges between personalities. I think that Mr. Sims is right. You people are talking at cross purposes and making lots of assumptions about each other. I haven't been training nearly as long as many of you, and do respect your opinions, and am interested in the manner in which you each like to train. However, I must miss my hapkido class tommorow night because if I went I would be setting a bad example for my thirty employees that show up for a training meeting. There's a woman that loves me and wants to spend time with me as I do her. I love to fish and debate about philosophy, cook and turkey hunt. I also really enjoy hapkido. It has given me more than I could have ever expected. It's brought me closer to peace with myself and people around me than anything so far in my life. Yet, I don't live to train. I'm not looking for an unfriendly roll either. There's a man that has taught me everything I know of hapkido. Does that make my qualifications too narrow? He teaches grappling and knife defense. Even defense technique against an attacker with a Glock 40. His experience is quite broad and indeed he shares common history with Master West as well as Masters/Drs. H. Kimm and J. Park, and is, I would figure, the contemporary of many of the masters in the 50+ group on this net. I would hate to see what would be left of a 200+ pound 24 year old ANYBODY that was foolish enough to take him on. A thin and unassuming looking guy, but the most precise practioner, with something else, a *mastery* of the art of hapkido. I've been on the other end of his technique and watched him grapple with well trained people much younger and bigger than him. I've seen him take lumps from smart-ass "what about this or this or this" types/noobs and look bad because as he's told me, "You have two choices, you can let him make you look bad, or you can break him." I believe it and think that this pertains to this discussion. He's certainly the best fighter I've ever encountered, although his knees hurt him and he's thin on top. (LOL) His instruction to me concerning this basic tenet of self defense; "Your going to go to the ground in most fights and in a life or death situation, the attacker is probably bigger and stronger than you are. You'd best hurt him before you make it to the ground." I take this all to heart. You can't have qualifiers for self defense. You must gouge rake, smash whatever necessary to survive. Am I able to train like I would like to? Not right now, I have to get up for another long day tomorrow. Am i interested in turning myself into an overmuscled monster so that i can roll around on the floor with dudes and win in contests of strength and will? (Power to you if this is your bag I love to watch you guys go at it!) No. Am I interested in beating down a crazed crackhead that is set on cutting me for some demented percieved wrong or doing anything I can to protect somone I love? Yes that's what canes, knives, nickel plated 1911's and hapkido are for. Am I underqualified to say this because I've never trained/"rolled" with anyone from the Gracie BJJ Way? Perhaps, but then I don't need to have someone shoot me in the shoulder with a .38 so I can know what it feels like, or what to do to avoid it. Shouting into the wind can be fun and instructional. I wouldn't know what to do if I didn't have at least a small amount of time to devote to it! With all due respect, Eric Oh and BTW Mister Sims said: "Now WHERE do they get to show what THEIR art can do. There are the battlefields, undercover LEO work, or the odd attack by some carzy with a knife. Other than that one can probably expect to go their whole life and never use the techniques one trains for..." Speaking of this, I heard Dr. Kimm was in Kuwait working with the first ground troops to be sent into Iraq just days before they went in. I wonder why that old guy could have been there? I think they were about to have a real fight... Best wishes --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:59:50 -0600 From: J R Hilland To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] true story Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I stopped keeping up with the latest martial arts trends a long time ago. What is the MMA? <<>> --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 08:44:51 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Way of the Water? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There seems to be a lot of machismo on the group recently. Like Jere, I'm hoping it goes away soon. Rather than add to it, let me just quote from the Dao de jing: "The best are like water. Water benefits all things and does not compete with them. It flows to the lowest level that people disdain. In this it comes near to the Way. In their dwellings, they love the earth. In their hearts, they love what is profound. In their friendship, they love humanity. In their words, they love sincerity. In government, they love peace. In business, they love ability. In their actions, they love timeliness. It is because they do not compete that there is no resentment." You can find this at http://www.san.beck.org/Laotzu.html if you're interested. Craig Stovall mentioned "guillotine choked" and "full telephone armlock" and such, which were terms I hadn't heard before. If you were confused as well, check out the following link on Shoot Wrestling, which describes them. http://groups.msn.com/NubreedMartialArts/combatgrappling.msnw?action=get _message&mview=0&ID_Message=648&LastModified=4675508351147239386 Oh, and thanks for that 11 year old self-defense story Ray. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com PS: Did I mention that when I went to his last seminar in Indiana, Hal Whalen announced that I'm not as big an a-hole as everyone says? Thanks Hal... I think! LOL :) --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Donnelly, Eamonn" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:04:32 -0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Off The Rails Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Snip Mr. Sims..next time you come to Florida please contact me..I would love to meet you... if you need my phone number or if you need someone to pick you up at the airport just let me know... I think it would be good for us to get together Endsnip This is only the latest in a series of postings, where the content (reading between the lines) may be construed as not in keeping with the admirable intent (as I understand!!) of the otherwise excellent DD. >From the DD website "The_Dojang is -the- email discussion forum for the Korean martial arts, e.g. Tang Soo Do, Hapkido, Taekwondo, Kuk Sool Won, Hanmudo, HwaRangDo, TaeKyon, Soo Bahk Do, Han Pul, Yudo, etc." "Please only join if you're interested in learning more about Korean martial arts and in receiving daily e-mail on this topic." I respect anyone and everyone who takes the time and effort to contribute in a positive way on the DD, so that we can all learn more about the KMA and self defence in general. Please can I respectfully ask that before we submit a posting that we remind ourselves of the purpose of the DD. Thanks Eamonn "Holier Than Thou" Donnelly Confidentiality Note: The information in this electronic mail ("e-mail") message may be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by privilege, work product immunity or other applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient the retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you receive this electronic mail ("e-mail") in error please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0) 24 7686 2000 or by e-mail at postmaster@cel-international.com. Thank you. Registered in England No. 3877626 Registered Office 256 Foleshill Road Coventry CV6 5AB --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 09:25:24 -0500 From: Brian Locke To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Martial Art Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, since every one and their brother has chimed in on this "Which Martial Art is the best" subject, I guess I will throw my hat in the ring. I have been reading the posts on how BJJ appears to be a legitimate style in 'real world' defense because most street fights end up on the ground. I must say I have ended up on the ground a few times, both as the giver and the receiver of punishment. But the thing I seem to have missed in all these posts are thoughts on 'spirit'. By 'spirit' I mean will to win/survive. I have been in a situation where I was scared to death and had a much larger and stronger opponent/attacker trying to hurt me. But this person did not fear for his life. I DID. And because of this I was able to subdue this man. I guess what I am trying to say is that the martial art you train in, and train diligently in, can be just as affective as any other when combined with that true fighting 'spirit'. I really feel it is as simple as that. Two opponents of equal strength and skill face off against each other..who will win? The one who wants it more. I apologize if some one else has already touched on this subject and I missed it. Thanks for your time Semper Fidelis Brian L --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 09:41:15 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Burton Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Thoughts from a killers' point of view.... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all I hope I am not being disingenuous but am I the only person who wonders why some of these threads are not taken offline? I am sure to the participants they are interesting, but there is a point at which any poster should be able to see that the majority of people do not need to read a post. I enjoy the vast majority of posts on the DD, but I must confess to beginning to get fed up of spending time deleting posts that have no relevance to me, or to the reasons I signed up to this group. Thanks and Regards Neil --- Bruce Sims wrote: > “…..Look killer...it's a funny thing to me that > you're > the only one that I get into a beef with...time and > time again. It's a funny thing that you seem to be > the ONLY person that folks get into a beef with….” > > Yes. I guess that’s true. I am what this society > would > probably call a “killer”. I can’t pretend something > like “it was my duty at the time” or I didn’t “let > it > get to me”. I didn’t ask for that comment but yes, I > suppose you are correct. And the only thing I can > tell > you is that if I had some magic power the first > thing > I would use it for is to bring those people back. I > know I can’t but I do remember what it is like to > take > away a persons’ life. I do remember that. > > I hear you talking about how I am somehow a kind of > wannabee, sitting here behind this keyboard. And, > you > are very right I have not experienced any of those > techniques you mentioned, and if I thought that I > could trade those experiences for the ones I have to > carry right now I would make the choice in a second. > And, you are probably right to accuse me of dealing > with sports in the abstract. Maybe that’s a fair > accusation —I don’t really know for sure. I “can” > tell > you that I know what death is, so when I speak of > that, I know THAT is not in the abstract. I do know > that. In a way, its a little like when I first got > home from overseas and I went to school and all > these > kids were all caught-up in going out and getting > drunk > or high like it was really something incredible. And > I > was kinda sitting listening (at the ripe old age of > 22) to this and wondering what planet these spoiled > rich kids were from when 6 months before I had to > keep > myself tanked just to be able to look at myself in > the > mirror. See what I mean? It’s a matter of > proportion, > isn’t it? People sitting around in the safety of > their > community and deciding what constitutes "real > combat", > after which they go out and hoist a few and go home > to > their cribs. Know what I mean? > > Now, you were very right to say that I am not > interested in a “friendly roll”. I am not interested > in an “unfriendly roll”. I train. I teach. I do > research. Sometimes I share stuff if I think it will > help out. If you have a problem with me--- if I am > the > ONLY person you have a problem with---- thank God > that > you have only problems with one person. Thank God > you > don’t have to kill that person because you have > differences. I originally came to this Net to > connect > with people who shared a love or interest in Korean > martial arts and Korean culture and Korean > traditions. > To date I have probably spent more time explaining > myself, what I believe and why I believe it than I > ever really needed to. As far as I can tell it have > done no good because people are still saying the > same > things to me now as they did before I made the > effort > to communicate my side of the discussion. > > Now this isn’t suppose to be a “poor > me”/”pity-party” > letter for Bruce.And it’s a little late for all of > that “poor-RVN-vet-welcome-back-parade” bullshit. > Too > late for me anyhow. All I wanted to say is there is > an > awful lot of talk about “serious intent” in combat. > There has also been a lot of loose talk about who I > am > and what I am about. Fact is that all you know about > me is what you may have gossiped-up among these > discussions. That’s pretty much it. Then you draw > some > conclusions about how all those pieces come together > so you can feel better. Its not like things have > changed a whole helluva lot since 1973, except, > actually I stopped really caring what people thought > quite a while ago. Its not like it makes a big > difference to me if I make these posts or not, ya’ > know? Now, this IS a “martial art” net, and what I > carry inside is the result of having consigned > myself > to a code in the name of some greater good for my > society. So strictly speaking what I carry are the > consequences of being involved in a martial venture. > Make sense? Its part of life being life and I will > bet > dollars to donuts someone will come back with a post > asking what the f*** Sims’ post had to do with > Hapkido > or martial arts or ???. And that response will be > exactly the reason I felt it was import to send this > along in the first place. No big deal. That’s all. > FWIW. > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:44:14 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Wanting to chime in...maybe.... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net True...it's really childish as people in essence are speaking of a tree and arguing over it's any branches. ***The tree is martial arts and the many branches although different, stem from the same tree. Jye Dang. I have read this 'post to post' commentary for some while. Its pretty nuts. We're calling each other names, making PS comments that dog someone out, battling over crap. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest