Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 03:05:31 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #91 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Sifu Lee (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 2. Central authority (Tkdsid@aol.com) 3. Re: TKD & more? (jakskru) 4. Moo Duk Kwan Standarization (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 5. Better Art (Frank Clay) 6. The sprawl (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 7. Comparing Martial arts (Shawn Ritchie) 8. RE: TKD & more? (Rick Clark) 9. RE: TKD & more? (Rick Clark) --__--__-- Message: 1 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Sifu Lee Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 23:59:48 -0000 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce Lee did do ground fighting which in his book of Jeet Kune do and in the film game of death and enter the dragon. -----Original Message----- From: mojakwan@yahoo.com [mailto:mojakwan@yahoo.com] Sent: 03 March 2005 03:54 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Sifu Lee I read do you think for a minute if Bruce Lee was alive today he wouldn't be learning how to ground fight?? MC Reply, That's the 4th range :-) Be Well, MC -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.6.0 - Release Date: 3/2/2005 _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Tkdsid@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 21:50:51 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Central authority Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray, I was referrring to the Moodukkwan I saw under the supervisonof C.S> Kim. Now that you point out the subgroups, it strengthens my stand on central authority. Don't you think there is great creativity in universities albeit accreditation? SR --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] TKD & more? Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 23:27:06 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > will continuous work outs and earning the higher belts to eventually the black > belt, protect me from street attacks? I have been mugged a few times and am > tired of it. I am usually the one to stop or try to stop fights. But being > mugged is never something one plans. It's ineveitble in good sir, yes...i say that the black belt can help you----but only if you study HKD....by this i mean that you must get the belt, take it off, and use it like a HKD rope/belt weapon....those of you in the know on this digest will understand what i mean... --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:32:56 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan Standarization Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray is right about the various MDK organization. There are splinter groups that originated from Hwang Kee's original MDK, However, my post referred to the Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation. It is standardized world wide. There is a manual for Gup students and Dan students, Testing material is the same worldwide. All practitioners 4th degree and above test under HC Hwang Kwan Jang Nim, and must demonstrate the standardized material while enduring the famous 8 day Ko Dan Ja testing. All schools are visited twice a year by regional examiners to insure standardization. All instructors are certified through the World Moo Duk Kwan as Kyo Sa or Sa Bom which involves a testing process to insure quality instructors are leading the Do-Jangs. There are exceptions to every rule. I wish I could say it is perfect, but is is not. It is however as close to perfect as I believe it can be given the problem of controlling human nature. no organization will ever get every one one the same page but as a long time MDK member it is a close I have ever seen. JC --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 07:23:53 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Better Art Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Brian, I don't think this is a matter of my art is better than yours. I think it is more the result of an uneducated comment. I, nor I suspect any other here, think that any one art is the best... just that the art we practice is best for us individually. Frank --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:57:47 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] The sprawl Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sid-- I am a Soo Bahk Do practitioner and as such try to maintain the culture, history and philosophy of that art. As with most arts they were developed due to geography, history, culture, etc. There are no martial arts that are they best. I train in Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan because of the leadership of the organization, the philosophy, traditions, history, discipline, respect and technique it offers. I only cross train in Jujitsu because I believe in reality it is important to understand the ground fighting aspects of war. ( I use words like war in place of game, or others because I try and stay focused on reality of real defense) You are right that if you can learn to sprawl and use good under hooks you can take a grappler out of his element and force him to strike with you. The problem is if you are not successful you must be ready to beat him while in his element. This is where many strikers have a false since of reality. They believe they can stop the shoot. In reality they may, but then again they may not. The first several UFC tournaments were won by grapplers. Now many strikers win because they have learned to defend the takedown. Although Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan teaches great striking skills, kicking, punching, elbows, knees, and headbutts. And it teaches Ho Shin Sool while standing. It does not teach a wide variety of ground techniques. Reality forced me to examine my ability on the ground about 15 years ago. I began cross training in Jujitsu before the UFC was a topic to discuss. In response to the Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz fight I saw it also. Chuck wanted to stand and strike, Tito knew he was not the better striker but admitted he wanted to prove he could stand and strike with Liddell. Knowing this and examining the tape several times I don't know if the out come would have been any different but I believe I did not go to the ground partly because Chuck had good defense with the sprawl and under hooks, and partly because Ortiz did not press for the takedown. Respectfully JC --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Shawn Ritchie" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 07:51:39 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Comparing Martial arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Consider that if you study any art long enough you will find elements of each in it. Most people do not study long or hard enough with an open and searching mind to find this. Though if you are looking for an art with ready street applications have any of you explored Sanuces Ryu Ju Juitsu? The style is a newer style (only 40 or 50 years old ) but after only a few months in the school ( coming from an old Korean Military style of Tae Kwon Do) it's effectiveness is undeniably one of the best. Shawn Ritchie --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 09:39:39 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] TKD & more? To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, >From: Jay O'Connor [mailto:joconnor@cybermesa.com] >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] TKD & more? > >Doug, > >> My question is will continuous work outs and earning the higher belts to eventually >the black >> belt, protect me from street attacks? >But it really depends on your instructor and what you are learning. TKD in itself as >techniques for combat; that's what it was designed for. I think this might be open to some discussion. TKD as we know it today is directly related to Japanese Karate, in particular Shotokan. Many of the founders of the original Kwan were either ranked under Funakoshi's system or used the forms taught in Shotokan. What Funakoshi taught was based on his study of Okinawan Karate, and what he taught and subsequently what his students taught was different than that which was taught in Okinawa. Funakoshi's karate was adapted to the needs of the Japanese culture of the time and in particular was taught in such a way as that it was acceptable in the school system. Remember at this time Judo was the preeminent martial art in Japan and in particular the school system. Kano and his supporters eventually had Judo and Kendo being taught in the schools as part of the physical education system. For an article I wrote about this topic see: http://www.ao-denkou-kai.org/new_page_6.htm It's my opinion that Funakoshi had to adapt his teaching to the society at the time, as a consequence the role of combat was diminished and the aspect of physical education or sport were highlighted. Thus, the combat effectiveness of the art taught by Funakoshi was lessened and this would have been transmitted to the Koreans who then taught the adapted versions of his system of Karate. As time has passed the emphasis in Karate and TKD has been to the sport and physical education portions of the arts and the self-defense applications have been lessened. See http://www.ao-denkou-kai.org/the_case_for_vital_points.htm > A lot of TKD schools in the >US, though, focus on the sport aspect; with emphasis on sparring and forms. Not only in the US but around the world, at least from what I have seen. >Sparring is good for learning to react and attack against a trained opponent, but it's > a far cry from street fighting or even covering all that TKD can accomplish. Very true. >Jay Rick Clark www.Ao-Denkou-Kai.org --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 09:53:51 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] TKD & more? To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Dugy, >This is all very interesting reading. I am the 57 yr old who just started the >TKD and I am enjoying it very much. It is keeping me in shape, gives me some >self confirdence and improves my mobility for other actitives. However I am >also taking a video self defense course and the producer of these videos >writes (in his daily column), "Many systems teach high kicking, complicated >wrist maneuvers, hard to hit pressure points and other techniques that most >likely would never work under the stress of a street attack." My question is >will continuous work outs and earning the higher belts to eventually the black >belt, protect me from street attacks? I have been mugged a few times and am >tired of it. I am usually the one to stop or try to stop fights. But being >mugged is never something one plans. It's ineveitble in the area I presently >live and this is my main reason for taking TKD. So, can anyone suggest an >additional source of training. ( I intend to stay with TKD, as I am signed up >now for 6 months and enjoy the workouts and form moves.) Thank you. Doug Let me give you a little food for thought here. Think about the 80/20 rule - basically you get 80% of your business from 20% or you customers, you get 80% of your problems from 20% of your people, you work 80% of the time to have 20% free time, the list can go on and on - but a whole lot of things can be put into the 80/20 rule. Look at the crime statistics and see how, when, where, who, etc. crimes are committed against, then practice to defend against that situation. For example: 1) Do you think it is more likely that you will be assaulted by a grab to the lapel followed by a punch to the head OR a jump spinning side kick? 2) Are you more likely to be grabbed by on the wrist or on the ankle? 3) Are you more likely to be choked from a person who grabs your neck with both hands OR being thrown to the ground and choked with sankaku-jime (triangle choke using the legs around the neck). If self defense is what you are looking for then you should be spending time defending yourself from those attacks you are most likely to encounter, and that can vary from location to location. For example in Scotland one of the most common ways a police officer is assaulted is from a head butt - I don't think that is a very common technique here in the US. BUT for a police officer in Scotland it would be important to practice techniques that would take into account such an attack. Later, Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest