Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:39:26 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #101 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Jackson Mutants (bmac2) 2. Re: Jackson report (Ray) 3. central authority (James E. McHie Jr.) 4. Missing the fun (Rudy Timmerman) 5. New WTF rules (C. Bonner) 6. Re: Self abuse (Beungood8@aol.com) 7. Re: New WTF rules (Ray) 8. Jackson, MS Throw Down (Joseph S John) 9. RE: Stretching with a stepladder (Howard Spivey) 10. Re: New WTF rules (Tony McDonald) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:41:48 -0600 From: "bmac2" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Jackson Mutants Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you to all for another great experience in Jackson. It always feels like home! My students and I had a great time and learned many things. Master Mac, I truly enjoyed your seminar (the parts I was able to witness) I would love to get together and do more. I sometimes feel I am the only one who sees things that way. I also appreciate you and Master Hodder allowing a novice like me to attend the TSD/TKD class. It is great to get out of the teaching mode and into the student mode. On that thought, Thank you Master West for bringing together such a great group of martial artists. It was great to see a couple of my Soo family members there. We did miss you SJN Timmerman, KJN Lorne Keatley and JKN Manfred Fischer. Hope perhaps August or next March will get you futher south. I would like to personally thank Master Hilland, Master Mangum, Master McHenry, Master Hodder and Master West for the one on one knowledge they shared with me and all in their sessions. Hopefully in August I will be 100% and be able to attend all sessions. Following the DDSS rule, Kat ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Jackson report To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:51:12 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Hilland said: > I would also like this opportunity to thank Master West publicly for > recognizing my techniques after 31 years of training in the form of my > promotion to 6th dan. Now that is great news! Congrats!!! Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:12:21 -0500 From: "James E. McHie Jr." To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] central authority Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sid: I believe if you really thought through your proposal for government regulation, you would eventually reject it conceptually. First, this would require tax dollars paying for expensive testing, and would dramatically increase the cost of being a martial arts instructor. I can appreciate that some/many schools teach children and that there is an interest in keeping children safe, but I don't think you are going to find a wide range of political support for at least several million dollars plus ongoing tax expense for federal oversight and regulation of a recreational activity, especially with so many schools, universities and other programs feeling the budgetary pinch. If you attempt to recoup the cost from schools directly, how many smaller schools with good instructors will you put out of business? How many good instructors will simply stop teaching so they don't ahve to hassle with ridiculous regulatory requirements? This will IMO increase the number of "McDojangs", not decrease them. I trained for over three years in a room in the back of a tanning salon with some nicely-padded carpet, with a man I consider to be a good instructor. He had no interest in renting out expensive space in a gym just to have a class full of muscle-heads. If instructors have to rent more expensive space, and have regulatory costs, that will make all martial arts less accessible because those costs will be reflected in increased cost for lessons. Also relating to this point is that what if a fair amount of instructors disagree with these medical tests. Hell we can't seem to come to scientific consensus on issues that threaten the human race, are we really expecting concensus on the mechanics of self defense? For years we've blindly followed the food pyramid . . . now they are practically turning it on its head! Eggs are bad, no eggs are good. Dont' cook something too much, you'll get cancer. Don't cook it enough, and you'll get parasites or somesuch. Global warming, arms races, environmental protection vs. business. Now something else we can put into the federal political machine? No thinks! What about people who don't care about pure effectiveness, but care about history? They want to retain those teachings of their teacher and their reacher's teacher. Maybe it's not always going to be the most 100% effective technique in the world, but it's their lineage, and we do not have a right to say that they cannot teach or give rank in those arts. Second, "minimum" standards conflicts internally a bit with what you are proposing. If there are "minimum" standards that everyone must accept, then what do you do if you don't agree with the standards? Will you have to start accepting people in with rank who have achieved minimum standards at a school across the country? What if that instructor was terrible, but has his instructor's license/certification? You might think that student no more than a green belt in technique, but the have satisfied all the minimum requirements of black belt under a licensed teacher. If you have standards, do not forget that the government will nto only be telling the Richard Hackworths how they must run their business . . . they will be telling you how to run your business, too. Even someone like Pelligrini . . . some people really disagree with how he conducts business, but due to the size of his organization, he is likely to have some influence when it comes to the Hapkido regulatory scheme. For better or worse, you would be stuck with it! Third, who sits on the regulatory board, and what processes do you think you could put in place to guarantee that the licensing board would only have honorable people on it? How many times in history has it occurred that government regulatory boards have themselves suffered corruption, or bribes, or been improperly influenced? If a Hackworth gets on the board, you might not be able to do a whole lot to get him off . . . and that person would have a significant input into how you run your business and conduct your martial arts affairs! What if the board decided that technique is more important than fitness and made standards had no specific physical requirements. You might have to accept a black belt from some school that didn't require any pushups at all! The only person doing the crying then would be you about how the government is forcing you to do things and give rank you don't agree with. I could go on all day on this topic. Is it fair that there are disreputable people who scam unsuspecting students? Absolutely. But as the greater community, we have to be there to reach out to them. Some instructors are more demanding of others regarding their rank . . . but the answer is not to stick the regulatory nose into every dojang! If someone else's black belt is at the same level as one of your blue belts, well sir quite frankly that is no business of yours. In the end, it's a belt, not a super-powered weapon, and students of motivation will want to learn regardless of their belt. I admire your desire to see quality martial arts instruction. And if there is a big movement to form larger private organizations with internal standards, that's ok, because people will have choice. But boy do I disagree with any movement to bring government regulation to the table. Jim p.s. Had a great time in Jackson. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:14:42 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Missing the fun Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere writes: > > Ray and Rudy, we missed you. Sorry for the long post. Hello Jere and everyone else whom I missed so much in Jackson. Congratulations my friend, and Iam even more sad now that i missed your big day. Master Gordon, I am glad you and your folks enjoyed your weekend, and you know how I feel about missing the opportunity to be there with you. alas, such is life, and not much we can do about things that happen unexpectedly. There is always next time neh. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "C. Bonner" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:50:02 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] New WTF rules Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Can someone point me to were it say's hand techniques are scored now, apparently i am blind. Also doe's anyone know which hand tech's are legal now? Any to the head, or just the body? Thank's, Clint --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:03:17 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Self abuse Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/14/2005 12:58:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Each day. Less than one year from full splits for her. Originally taught by to her by her first teacher, Master Park Bu Kwang a student of General Choi. If your are into self abuse, try ankle weights. Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND Doesn't attendance at a Hapkido Dojang constitute self abuse?... ;-) Jack O --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] New WTF rules To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:22:01 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Can someone point me to were it say's hand techniques are scored now, > apparently i am blind. Also doe's anyone know which hand tech's are legal > now? Any to the head, or just the body? I haven't seen the new rules that were mentioned by the Korea Times. But punch techniques have always been allowed to the body. It is just that most judges didn't score them. I'm guessing the change will be to score them more frequently. One study by the Kukkiwon a few years back showed no points had scored by punch during elite level comp. Actually I did witness one, so the report either was prior to that or missed that one. During Pan Am Games TKD down in Peru a reverse punch by the US player knocked down his opponent big time. A score did not appear on the scoreboard. The senior observers halted the match and apparently insisted a point be scored, which is what then occurred. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Joseph S John" To: Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:44:59 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Jackson, MS Throw Down Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net -----Original Message----- Master West...many thanks for the hospitality extended to the military contingent....represented by the "warped/mutant brothers - separated only by birth" (Kip McCormick and I). I had a great time seeing old friends and making new ones. Holcombe, it was nice to finally meet you...I've heard a great deal about you (all positive) from our good friend Hal Whalen (get well soon Hal!). Chris Shirey - great seeing you and yours brother and congrats on 4th Dan...awesome!!!! Kip, as always, you're an outstanding throw down partner. It's truly unique to laugh while my arm is being twisted in several different directions. I am looking forward to seeing you in May for Bob's seminar here in Illinois. Regards, Joe Great Lakes HapKiDo 196A Boles Loop Ft. Sheridan IL 60037 www.greatlakeshapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:44:50 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Stretching with a stepladder Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr Peters, re your reference to stretching with a stepladder... I honestly can't tell whether this is in jest or not... assuming that you are serious, would you mind providing some details? and if you're not serious, congratulations, you just played a nice joke on me. Thanks, Howard "Good Sirs, I have owned a machine(Hurley) for quire a few years and like it very much, although I have made a few modifications to it so it does not hurt my inner legs.(swivel leg pads at the knee). I have found that a stepladder is far more useful tool for stretching though. I like it the best. Respectfully, George" --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Tony McDonald" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] New WTF rules Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:08:31 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] New WTF rules > Can someone point me to were it say's hand techniques are scored now, > apparently i am blind. Also doe's anyone know which hand tech's are legal > now? Any to the head, or just the body? I was just in a martial arts festival in Washington, I sparred under WTF rules, I did a double fisted punch and knocked my opponent on the ground and the judges scored it, Although I'm thinking that it's up to the judge to score or not --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest