Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 03:05:00 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #128 - 3 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. MINNEAPOLIS SCHOOL (Chuck Luntz) 2. Re: Hapkido/DRAJJ comparison (Bruce Sims) 3. Re: Re: Hapkido/DRAJJ comparison (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Chuck Luntz" To: Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:40:06 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] MINNEAPOLIS SCHOOL Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Can anyone suggest a Kukkiwon style Taekwondo school in Minneapolis, MN around the Abbott NW Hospital area. One of our students is relocating soon. They would like to continue with the same style and forms (Taeguk). Thank you in advance. Chuck chuck@charlesluntz.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:09:38 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido/DRAJJ comparison Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Michael: "......What kind of work has been done comparing the style of aki-jujutsu that was taught by Takeda Sokaku at his school in Japan and the original hapkiyusul that DJN Choi taught, before the kicks etc. were added by the early hapkidoists? Records are so vague about DJN Choi's life in Japan, but certainly the original hapkiyusul and Takeda Sokaku's aki-jujutsu must have looked a lot alike, if not identical... Comments?...." You may want to look at the Hapkido history thread on the newly organized Hapkido section of AIKIDO JOURNAL net. I am addressing this very issue but its a bit larger than being able to be explained in 25 words or less. Here are just a few thoughts. 1.) Usual investigation seems to link Takeda and Choi Yong Sul. This may not be entirely accurate. I think that the person to investigate is actually Yoshida Kotaro who is often represented as a student of Takeda but may have been more of an "organizer" and "recruiter of muscle" for the Black Dragon Society. 2.) Proceeeding from Point One, if you examine "2nd Generation" individuals such as Choi Yong Sul, DoShin So, Mas Oyama, and Richard Kim you may begin to see that all of these people had a rather eclectic MA experience and a rather vague or non-specific history before moving on past the 1950-s. 3.) I suggest that Yong Sul Chois' comment in his interview that he taught "yawara" was exactly right on the money. If you examine the derivation of the term "yawara" you find that it has its origins in the use of various and sundry techniques--- a kind of eclectic approach if you will--- whose sole focus is the undoing of ones' opponent. There are no "ryu" for "yawara" though many ryu HAVE a "yawara component". Think of this like "hoshinsul" material for TKD, or Chin Na material for Chuan Fa. 4.) I suspect that with continued probing I will find that Choi Yong Sul was probably recruited by Yoshida to be trained and put to work (on call, as it were) for work in anti-union and political situations where the conservatives such as might be found in the Black Dragon Society could get by bullying what they had lost following the Boshin War. Now---- Before you tune-up on me let me just add that it doesn't make a hill-of-beans to me one way or the other. Choi Yong Sul would not have been the only person to come back from Japan and try to parley his knowledge of fighting into a money-maker. We all know that there were plenty of Korean people who came back with a lot smaller credentials in Karate that went on and started "kwans" which focused on "korean" arts. So all I am saying is that we need to look at the history of the Hapkido arts without the rosey and romantic crap we have been fed for years and let Hapkido arts stand on their own merits. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido/DRAJJ comparison To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:11:59 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Dear Michael: > > "......What kind of work has been done comparing the style of aki-jujutsu that > was taught by Takeda Sokaku at his school in Japan and the original > hapkiyusul that DJN Choi taught, before the kicks etc. were added by the early hapkidoists? Records are so vague about DJN Choi's life in Japan, but > certainly the original hapkiyusul and Takeda Sokaku's aki-jujutsu must > have looked a lot alike, if not identical... Comments?...." > > You may want to look at the Hapkido history thread on the newly organized ... > ... Good historical info from Bro. Bruce. Sounds like a fun research topic. But what are your thoughts on similarity of the two arts, DRAJJ and Hapkiyusul? Have you ever had a chance to compare/contrast DRAJJ and HKYS? Just curious. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest