Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:36:22 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #142 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Warning for the Back (Bruce Sims) 2. TKD Schools (Art VanVranken) 3. TSD Rank (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 4. Re: Re: Mr. Cushings comments about John Pellegrini (Ray) 5. RE: More on the Ki Hap (I think) (Ken Nessworthy) 6. Hwa Rang Do's food eating tactics (Don Kirsch) 7. Re: Pellegrini and False Claims (tim walker) 8. RE: Pellegrini's website (Howard Spivey) 9. Re: Re: Warning for the Back (jakskru) 10. RE: RE: More on the Ki Hap (I think) (Rick Clark) 11. World Traditional Hapkido Team? (Bernard Redfield) 12. Re: Jason Landass Proxy Defense of John Pellegrini (Vic Cushing) 13. Re: Mr. Cushings comments about John Pellegrini (Bob Ingersoll) 14. RE: Re: Mr. Cushings comments about John Pellegrini (Rick Clark) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:33:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Warning for the Back Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "...My injuries: I think this little anecdote will describe my dilemma: After a couple months of PT for a bulging disk in my back, the therapist said I could start up hapkido again...just no jumping, falling and very easy on the kicking!....." I think I missed your comment earlier about the back if you mentioned it in your first post. Important Safety Note: Listen to your clinician!!!! You are retaining this person for their expertise and I will tell you already that they will err on the conservative side 101% of the time. I got fed-up listening to doctors talk about how MA is bad for the body so I went out and found a doctor who knows something about athletics and the stresses on the body. He probably would still rather see me quit, but at least I make sure I am listening when he says "goes easy for blah blah weeks or so." Also, in about 6 months you are going start blowing off the maintenance program for your back. Don't. Make it a regular part of your training from now on. It won't hurt you and you can consider it as kind of an insurance policy of sorts. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:35:26 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Art VanVranken" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD Schools Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Got a friend who needs to locate in VA near Rocky Mt . Or have you heard of Monetta Taekwondo Academy? The friend is in his early 60s, a retired State Employee. Not very flexible but a dedicated student 2nd Dan TKD mostly ITF style! [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of IMSTP.gif] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type Image/jpeg which had a name of BackGrnd.jpg] --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:58:15 -0500 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] TSD Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JC, I think a lot of us believe legitimacy of rank is important. Otherwise we wouldn't have it. Not so sure about title. I don't use it myself, for me it is enough that my KJN gave it and my seniors choose to use it when they refer to me. I too have a problem with people jumping here and there just to inflate their rank. But you seem to be saying that any rank increase outside the US Moo Duk Kwan Soo Bahk Do Federation is not legitimate. Now I don't know Ho Sik Pak, and I am not trying to defend him, but I believe that that attitude is elitist and just plain wrong. I know a lot of very very good practitioners outside the federation. Most of the splits were due to politics, and they are continuing to this very day. And lets face it, martial artist continue to grow as long as they continue to practice and seek. Danny Dunn <<>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Mr. Cushings comments about John Pellegrini To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... So everytime I read a > negative statement about John Pellegrini's rank I can't help but feel as > though the person who made the statement is also showing a great deal of > disrespect to GM Seo. Agreed. And it is very sad that Gm Seo has clearly brought this upon himself. There is just no one else to blame... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Ken Nessworthy" To: Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:19:27 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: More on the Ki Hap (I think) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net MC, I agree with what you say whole heartily. I myself know of two Sam Dans who go by the title of KJN which is appalling and totally disrespectful to the art of TSD. I also have been asked by my students to 'award' myself the rank and title of master, but I tell them that I would never do that as I am not in it for rank or recognition and unless I have the bruises the aches and pains of a grading then I have not earned it. This is why I drive 500+ miles once or twice a month to train with senior instructors and at the same time put my family life on hold. Ken (7 days to go) --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Don Kirsch" To: "the_dojang" Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:21:02 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hwa Rang Do's food eating tactics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net post from Ray : " Learn Hwa Rang Do's food eating tactics... :) " I've never seen Japanese, Chinese or Korean food eating tactics but ... I have seen full fledged Mississippi food eating battle strategies . It's an awesome sight to behold ! I particularly like vertical envelopment of the desert tray. Regards to all, Don Kirsch --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "tim walker" To: Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:17:37 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Pellegrini and False Claims Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Neener-neener-nee-ner. Here we go again. Tell me how it ends, I'm gonna go kick the bag. timo "Primum non nocere" --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:27:35 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Pellegrini's website Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Irrespective of Mr Pellegrini's rank and hapkido ability, he is directly responsible for anything on his website. If the site administrator made a mistake in posting any of his credentials, Mr Pellegrini should have caught the mistake before the changes went live - presumably, he knows the difference between the two organizations. The buck stops with him. Jason Landaas wrote: "As to his credentials listed on his website. Did it ever occur to you that someone else does his site and that maybe that person is the one who mistakenly refered to the Korea Kido Association vs. the World Kido Federation. Just food for thought." --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Warning for the Back Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:20:57 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net just my two cents.... as i get older, i find that i have to adjust my training...my body just wont take the pounding like it did when i was in my twenties....HOWEVER...its not that i stopped training intensely, i just started training smartly....never used to stretch, never seemed to need it...now i stretch before i workout, but after i warm up and i not only stretch the big muscles, but the smaller ones as well. i cut down on lifting super heavy weight all the time, now i lift heavy once a week....i cut back on the frequency of my weight training, from 5 days to 3, and i always stretch the muscles again after i finish. also, i replaced the weight training with body weight exercises and more HKD at home, as well as adding some MMA type training. also, it helps to drink alot of water. and if you are having joint related problems, try glucosamine chondroitin supplements. start making sure you always use good form...eliminate sloppiness and you will be less prone to injury. lastly, follow bruces advice and continue the exercises you did/ are doing/ will do for your back or knees...add them to your current regime. i tore my infraspinatus muscle and my rotator cuff about two years ago...i elected to rehab rather than surgery, and i still do my rehab exercises at least once a week... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Sims" To: Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 4:33 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Warning for the Back Also, in about 6 months you are going start blowing off the maintenance program for your back. Don't. Make it a regular part of your training from now on. It won't hurt you and you can consider it as kind of an insurance policy of sorts. > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 17:44:58 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: More on the Ki Hap (I think) To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Ken, > From: Ken Nessworthy [mailto:ken.nessworthy@blueyonder.co.uk] > MC, I agree with what you say whole heartily. I myself know of two Sam > Dans > who go by the title of KJN which is appalling and totally disrespectful to > the art of TSD. 3rd dan KJN? Oh well soon enough there will be some 1st dan grand master out there. > I also have been asked by my students to 'award' myself the rank and title > of master, You don't do it your students do it. If you think I am trying to be funny - just ask yourself who promoted all of the 10th dan and 9th dan to that rank not to far after 1945. Do you really think the top guy was promoted by someone else? > but I tell them that I would never do that as I am not in it > for > rank or recognition and unless I have the bruises the aches and pains of a > grading then I have not earned it. This is why I drive 500+ miles once or > twice a month to train with senior instructors and at the same time put my > family life on hold. > > Ken (7 days to go) Ken, good on you mate for the commitment to travel and learn. When I go to the UK to teach seminars it always strikes me how we in the US we don't have an understanding of age (history) they way you guys do, and for the most part you guys don't have an idea of distances the way we do. By the way I am looking forward to the next couple of weeks of having a decent beer:-) Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 18:00:22 -0400 From: Bernard Redfield To: Subject: [The_Dojang] World Traditional Hapkido Team? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My friend is a limo driver and just called to tell me at Kennedy Airport, NY The World Traditional Hapkido Team arrived, they are here for one day for demos around philly, for Tsunami Disaster relief. Anyone hear of this?? b --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 18:31:33 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Vic Cushing Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Jason Landass Proxy Defense of John Pellegrini Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ...."Mr. Cushing, if you think so little of John Pellegrini and his organizations why did you join his organization and accept a 5th Dan certificate from him?" Because I made a mistake. ....."I also find it funny that you and many others will make negative statements about his rank which was given to him by GM Seo, yet you yourselves also claim rank awarded to you by GM Seo. I don't see how you can hold such a double standard. Making statements about somenone's rank also makes a statement about the person who awarded that rank, in this case GM Seo. So everytime I read a negative statement about John Pellegrini's rank I can't help but feel as though the person who made the statement is also showing a great deal of disrespect to GM Seo." First of all I didn't say anything whatsoever about GM SEO.  I pointed out that the rank that John Pellegrini was awarded wasn't from Dae Han Ki-do Hwe.  True or false?   Truth is an absolute defense against defamation and as usual John never speaks up... always one of his true believers.  I have heard John Pelligrini say some very negative things about GM SEO. No one ever heard me say anything negative about GM SEO's teaching skills though I have great reservations about the double branding that World Kido Federation did. .  They issued certificates that purported to be issued by both World Kido Fdeeration and Korea Ki-Do Association which was not true.  I left that organization because of that very questionable business practice. ...."As to his credentials listed on his website. Did it ever occur to you that someone else does his site and that maybe that person is the one who mistakenly refered to the Korea Kido Association vs. the World Kido Federation." John Pellegrini very carefully controls his public image and his web site so it is just a bit naive and misleading to suggest it was the webmaster's fault that he made a false claim Now you can read chapter and verse about my training including the time I was in the ICHF because I posted it warts and all on my web site..  Where is the comparable training history for Joh Pellegrini, who awarded him what ranks at what dates, etc?  He lists the last few years of relative high rank, but never reveals the foundation of his trainining. While I am an open and fairly friendly person and don't see the need for rank posturing (and just wear a plain black belt with no stars or stripes), and usually don't put any mention of rank in my postings for you it will be quite acceptable for you to call me Master Cushing since I outrank you even in the ICHF system.  For someone who wants John Pellegrini to have respect you don't seem to be modelling the behavior very well. By the way you might want to correct your web site since he isn't recognized by Kido Hae. ...."In 1990 Grandmaster Pellegrini officially named his style of Hapkido "Combat Hapkido". The name clearly identifies it and sets it apart from other "traditional" styles of Hapkido. It is also referred to as the "Science of Self Defense". In 1999 the Combat Hapkido System was officially recognized and accredited as a legitimate "Kwan" of HapKiDo by the WKF/KKA (Kido-Hae). " Vic Cushing --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Bob Ingersoll" To: Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:38:02 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Mr. Cushings comments about John Pellegrini Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I want to take this opportunity to echo the comments made by my brother ICHF member, Jason Landas. Shouldn't we spend more time training and teaching rather that criticizing one GM after another. I have been with GM Pellegrini since the beginning. After some regretful years with another Hapkido GM, GM Pellegrini and ICHF rescued me from throwing years of Hapkido training in the garbage. I would hope that Mr. Cushing would be more professional and set an better example for his students to follow. This topic raises it's evil head more times than it should. Those Master's who find the time to sit at their computer for the sole purpose of making accusations are not doing themselves any justice or helping their own creditability. Get a life and move on. I don't think that many people really care about what other Hapkido groups are doing. I know I don't. Master Bob Ingersoll CA State Director ICHF Director / IPDTI Self Defense America 565 Broadway Avenue Seaside, CA 93955 (831) 394-4133 www.selfdefenseusa.com We use and recommend Strider Knives Surefire Flashlights --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 20:07:09 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Mr. Cushings comments about John Pellegrini To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Bob, It's been some time since I have seen you or your guys, hope all is well with you and yours. Discussions about who's rank is legitimate or not, who is a true master, or who is not is simply a waste of time for everyone concerned. No matter the credentials or background of someone there will be those out there who don't believe they should be recognized. Some of those are legitimate complaints and others not. The bottom line is when a person gets on the mat - can their students perform technique at a level that is commiserate with their rank. The only reason I opened this post was because I recognized your name and wondered what you had to say. Other than that I have simply been deleting the posts I see with subject lines like the one above. Remy Presas told me a long time ago that when groups or individuals began to run my reputation down then I was probably doing something right. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Ingersoll [mailto:capi15406@sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 6:38 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Mr. Cushings comments about John Pellegrini > > I want to take this opportunity to echo the comments made by my brother > ICHF member, Jason Landas. Shouldn't we spend more time training and > teaching rather that criticizing one GM after another. I have been with > GM Pellegrini since the beginning. After some regretful years with > another Hapkido GM, GM Pellegrini and ICHF rescued me from throwing > years of Hapkido training in the garbage. I would hope that Mr. Cushing > would be more professional and set an better example for his students to > follow. This topic raises it's evil head more times than it should. > Those Master's who find the time to sit at their computer for the sole > purpose of making accusations are not doing themselves any justice or > helping their own creditability. Get a life and move on. I don't think > that many people really care about what other Hapkido groups are doing. > I know I don't. > > Master Bob Ingersoll > CA State Director ICHF > Director / IPDTI > > Self Defense America > 565 Broadway Avenue > Seaside, CA 93955 > (831) 394-4133 > www.selfdefenseusa.com > We use and recommend Strider Knives > Surefire Flashlights > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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