Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:07:44 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #145 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Pellegrin (Beungood8@aol.com) 2. GM Seo (Chris LaCava) 3. Re: John Pellegrini and False Claims (Chris LaCava) 4. Re: The Back/Julie's Post (Steve Roberts) 5. Moving on... (Ray) 6. RE: Mr P (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 7. hapkido central (J R Hilland) 8. rank, title, false art... (J R Hilland) 9. RE: Chiropractic care (Howard Spivey) 10. RE: Driving in the US or the UK?? (Ken Nessworthy) 11. Re: hapkido central (Ray) 12. Future Dojang Owner (Vincent DeSalvo) 13. RE: hapkido central (Rick Clark) 14. Warning for the Back (Vincent DeSalvo) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:28:17 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Pellegrin Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net All arguments and innuendo aside;\, all you have to do to make your mind up about John P is watch any of his "Hapkido " videos. His lack of basic motion and the comical way he breaks balance and finishes his joint locks tells you all you need to know about his ICHF. I must ad that I received the video as one of many in a trade. He performs his techniques like a "lousy " yellow belt..... Jack --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:04:27 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Seo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jason wrote: <> People have to remember that GM Seo is just a "man" who make good and bad decisions just like we do everyday. Although I may not agree with many of GM Seo's decisions, but when someone like Rudy (who has many years under his belt actually training) stands by him to this day, that means something and should be taken into consideration. To steal a line from Bruce..... Take this "For What It's Worth." (FWIW) Take care Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:39:02 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: John Pellegrini and False Claims Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here is a honest and straightforward way to clear up many issues one way or another for many people about Pellegrini... For those of you who know... please list each of John Pellegrini's ranks and include: date, person who issued the rank and location. By doing this, everyone can the facts about attaining each rank and also be able to verify each one. I'll start... 1st Dan - (??/??/89-90) by GM Michael Wollmershauser at Chester Holubecki's Isshin Ryu Dojo in Orange City, Florida 2nd Dan - ? 3rd Dan - ? 4th Dan - ? 5th Dan - ? 6th Dan - ? 7th Dan - ? 8th Dan - ? 9th Dan - ? This is something that doesn't have to involve any negative attitudes becuase this is nothing but gathering facts and verifying them. I know this would help me and others to better understand where John Pellegrini is coming from and be able to identify when people are "just being jealous." Take care. Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:02:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Roberts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The Back/Julie's Post Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Julie, Thank you for your post on chiropractic. It has been quite helpful for me. Here in Chicago it seems that there is a Chiropractor on every block, so I just assume that most people go to one. Another therapy that I found to be very helpful for a shoulder tendinitis problem that I had (which brought my guitar playing career to a halt for a bit) has been Feldenkrais. A good Feldenkrais physical therapist here in Chicago helped me learn how to move...and helped save my a##. Since Feldenlrais was a judo guy, his ideas work well with the martial arts. Due to the help and encouragement from many list members, I'm going to carefully resume training when I return home permanently in May. Maybe sooner if I can find some Hapkido in Appleton, Akron, or Richmond. Steve --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Moving on... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Folks, it is about time to move off the negative posts and get back to the positive ones. Yes, I've been as guilty as anyone, but let us move on and up. Thanks. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:50:23 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Mr P Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray stated: "Since folks seem interested, Mr. P's background is apparently the following... He was in Benko's MTA (a TKD group), " If anyone cares, when I was with the ITA, formally the MTA, headed by GM Benko, I recieved an email from the ITA denying that they provided Mr. P ANY rank at all.. James Morgan --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:59:50 -0500 From: J R Hilland To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido central Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I believe the oldest standing hapkido dojang is still in Taegu run by the 8th student of Choi Young Sul. A nice city surrounded by mountains. Everyone played together well for a while in the history of hapkido.... "Choi, Yong Sul worked for the expansion of hapkido, which led to the development of many black belts. During 1956, Suh, Bok Sub opened the second hapkido school. After 1959, many of Choi's students openend up schools. The three prominent branches were Sung Moo Kwan Hapkido, Sin Moo Kwan Hapkido, Kuk Sool Won Hapkido. However, after 1960, many hapkido practitioners felt the need to unify hapkido and oversee its development. Many influential figures of the Taegu are, with the central figure being Choi, Yong Sul, held forums for that purpose. September, 2, 1963, Kidohae was formed as a government recognized association for the purpose of development and expansion of hapkido martial arts. Ever since its inception to this time, Kidohae has stood at the forefront of hapkido. Up to the 1970's, Kidohae functioned well. However, due to it localization in the Taegu area, there were separations from Sin Moo Hapkido and Sun Moo Hapkido of the Seoul area, and Kuk Sool Won Hapkido of the Busan that wished to part ways and form their own centralized association. What was once one association had separated into many." - http://www.kidohae.or.kr/eng/habkido/modern_gido.asp Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:22:00 -0500 From: J R Hilland To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] rank, title, false art... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rick: VERY well said! Taekwondo times and rags like that are the ones deciding who is legit and who is not by catering to the paid advertisement. But now they are adding such silly non-Korean titles as supreme (what every happened to SBN and KJN?).... After all a grandmaster is a level of chess player and the other place that grand is used is from the Klan. Growing up in southeast Texas, the term 'grand' in front of a name has a very bad connotation for me and I still cringe when I hear it. Besides, any one who has been in a specific art for a number of decades knows who the real players are and those who are not, regardless of what they want to call themselves and how much they advertise. Personally, I am happy with the name my parents gave me. <<>> Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:39:56 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Chiropractic care Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Speaking just from my personal experience, I have to agree with this. About 4 years ago, I developed awful pain deep in both of my hip joints. It kept me from training frequently. At one point I was walking with a cane. I went to MDs for about a year seeking relief, and got little. They never did diagnose what the problem was, and just kept trying different (and expensive) medications on me, none of which helped a bit. Then my hapkido teacher persuaded me to visit his chiropractor. I was skeptical at first, because I didn't know that well-informed chiropractors treat things other than back conditions, but I went anyway, figuring I had nothing to lose except a $5 insurance copay. What a good thing that I did. The chiropractor diagnosed my problem on my very first visit (I had some nasty things called myofascial trigger points, which are little knots of chronic contraction in the middle of muscles that "refer" pain to another area of the body). Since these things can't be treated with drugs or surgery, the average MD can't seem to do much for them - assuming they even diagnose them correctly in the first place. The chiropractor started treating me with ultrasound, and within 2 weeks the pain was only about 25% of what it had been, and within about 2 months the condition was basically under control. I still go to him twice a month for maintenance, since sometimes certain types of stretching seem to set the trigger points off again (I get them in the gluteus and adductor muscles). I also understand that certain massage therapists treat trigger points successfully. If any of you ever develop chronic pain anywhere in your body, I'd really recommend ruling out trigger points as a first step, and based again on my own experience, I'd recommend checking out a well-informed chiropractor or massage therapist. Good luck... "I have seen many devastating and atrocious procedures and "treatments" done to people in the medical field in the name of "healing." What many people do not realize is that the human body has a tremendous amount of healing potential. As a chiropractor, I would encourage all martial artists (and all people for that matter) to seek chiropractic care. Chiropractic is not only helpful for "back aches, neck aches and headaches" but for a multitude of other issues that concern the human body." --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Ken Nessworthy" To: Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:01:54 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Driving in the US or the UK?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Rick.. Rick Wrote: Our roads are marked a bit better I think, and we don't have roundabouts (which were a terror for me). Plus if you make a mistake on a turn you don't have to drive and drive and drive to turn around. So it's not so bad. I have my very first car wreck in the US, scared the hell out me. But not as half as the guy that I hit in his car. LOL :o) Ken (5 days left) --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] hapkido central To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > However, after 1960, many hapkido practitioners felt the need to unify > hapkido and oversee its development. Many influential figures of the > Taegu are, with the central figure being Choi, Yong Sul, held forums for > that purpose. September, 2, 1963, Kidohae was formed as a government > recognized association for the purpose of development and expansion of > hapkido martial arts. Ever since its inception to this time, Kidohae has > stood at the forefront of hapkido. > > Up to the 1970's, Kidohae functioned well. However, due to it > localization in the Taegu area, there were separations from Sin Moo > Hapkido and Sun Moo Hapkido of the Seoul area, and Kuk Sool Won Hapkido > of the Busan that wished to part ways and form their own centralized > association. What was once one association had separated into many." - > http://www.kidohae.or.kr/eng/habkido/modern_gido.asp I also noticed the above at the Kidohae site. They perhaps used Kido for the org name as that was the name that Hapkido was going under in the early 1960s. More history, or another angle on it... an old write up: In May of 1961, General Park, Chung-Hee (1917-1979) overthrew the Korean goverment, an action which ultimately resulted in his being elected President. In 1962, Ji moved to Kwan Chul Dong, in a space in back of the Hwa Shin Department Store. By this time, he had built his Sung Moo Kwan school up, and it was financially strong. With assistance from Major Lee, Dong-Nam, Ji was given permission to instruct the military Supreme Council in Hapkido techniques. Ji then received a government post teaching Hapkido to the President Security forces (a position he would hold until Park's death in 1979). During this time, he moved his school to Suh Dae Mon (West Gate section), which he felt would give him greater exposure to the public. In the early 1960's Park, Chung-Hee lifted important restrictions banning Japanese goods from Korea, and JI, came across a book on Japanese Aikido. Ji saw that the Japanese characters for Aikido were the same as for Hapkido. Discouraged that a Japanese art had the "same name" as Hapkido, he decided to drop the "Hap" from its name, calling his art simply, "Kido." In 1965, Ji, Han-Jae left the Korea Kido Association and established the Korea Hapkido Association. There were several reasons. First, the Korea Kido Association appointed Kim, Jung Yoon as secretary-general Kim, who was a university graduate, dominated the policies of the association, and Ji did not like the situation. Second, the students were trained in Sung Moo Kwan under the name Hapkido, and Ji did not like the new term "Kido." They continued to call their martial art Hapkido, and continued to teach it the way they learned it. And lastly, Ji, Han-Jae was appointed Chief Hapkido Instructor for the president's Security forces and had become a powerful person. This power translated into the ability to successfully operate his own organization without help from others who were being less then ethical in their lives as martial artists. Three dominate Hapkido organizations began to immerge during the next five years. These included the Korea Hapkido Association (founded in 1965 by Han-Jae Ji), the Korea Hapkido Association (founded in 1969 by Jae-Nam Myung), and the Korean Hapkido Association (founded in 1971 by Kim, Moo Woong). Eventually, in 1973, the leaders of these organizations met and agreed to unify their association one. The new association was named Dae Han Min Kuk Hapkido Hyub Hwe (republic of Korea Hapkido Association). In 1984, Grandmaster Ji moved to the United States and founded Sin Moo Hapkido. That same year, Grandmaster Kim, Moo-Woong resigned from the Republic of Korea Hapkido association, and founded the International Hapki Federation. Grandmaster Oh, Se-Lim became the president of the Republic of Korea Hapkido Association, and late in 1984, he renamed it the Korea Hapkido Association (the name Ji had used in the 60's). Today here are still several dominant Hapkido organizations in Korea. These include, the Korea Kido Association (In-Sun Seo, Pres.), the Korea Hapkido Association (Oh, Se-Lim, Pres.), the International Hapkido Federation (Myung, Jae Nam, Pres.). The Korea Hapkido Association is still the most prominent Hapkido organization in Korea, and graduates of the Sung Moo Kwan make up the majority of its instructors. (Oh's KHA later changed the name to KHF) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Vincent DeSalvo" To: Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:19:51 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Future Dojang Owner Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Way to go Valerie Crawford; go for it. Just remember, when the going gets tough, the tough get tougher. Good Luck, Vincent DeSalvo --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:40:25 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] hapkido central To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, > From: Ray [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] > More history, or another angle on it... an old write up: > In the early 1960's Park, Chung-Hee lifted important restrictions banning > Japanese goods from Korea, and JI, came across a book on Japanese Aikido. > Ji saw that the Japanese characters for Aikido were the same as for > Hapkido. Discouraged that a Japanese art had the "same name" as Hapkido, > he decided to drop the "Hap" from its name, calling his art simply, > "Kido." I find this interesting, both Korean and Japanese use Chinese characters. I wonder that he would not have seen the Chinese characters for Hapkido before this time and recognized that they were one in the same. After all there is more than one instance where there are Korean pronunciations of arts that are well know in the west by other names. Kwon Bup / Kempo there are of course others. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Vincent DeSalvo" To: Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:43:11 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Warning for the Back Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Knife and Back, man that a bad combination from what I have learn from people who have had that done. One suggestion is to give Yoga a tried for 2 to 3 months depending on how often you go. It help me and I know several others. Besides stronger lower back muscles will make your techniques seem effortless. Good Lucky on this. Vincent --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest