Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 03:04:09 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #148 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Man dies during tae kwon do match (Ray) 2. Re: rank, title, art... (Christopher Spiller) 3. Re: Rank discussion (brent b) 4. hapkido central (James Allison) 5. Beer and the Martial Arts (Brooke Thomas) 6. Dan # 2 and 3 (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 7. Re: Of Masters and Grandmasters.... (Bruce Sims) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Man dies during tae kwon do match Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Man dies during tae kwon do match in Mahwah Monday, April 11, 2005 Brian Aberback MAHWAH - A New York State man collapsed and died Sunday while participating in a tae kwon do tournament at Ramapo Ridge Middle School, police said. Charles Hatcher, 46, of Dover Plains in Dutchess County, was engaged in a match in the school's gymnasium when he collapsed about 3:10 p.m., said Lt. Robert Sinnaeve. The cause of death was not known, but Sinnaeve said police were investigating whether Hatcher had any medical conditions. Several people in attendance at the tournament performed CPR on Hatcher until police and volunteer Ambulance Company 1 arrived and took over providing first aid, Sinnaeve said. Valley Hospital paramedics also assisted, he said. Hatcher was taken to Good Samaritan Hospital in Suffern, N.Y., where he died a short time later, police said. It was not immediately clear whether Hatcher regained consciousness before reaching the hospital. The annual all-ages tournament is not affiliated with the school district. Police did not say who sponsored the competition. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:47:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: rank, title, art... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net J R Hilland said: >>Agreed. Specially if you change the wording to 'did' provide a good source of information. But now all the posturing and nonsense just doesn't do a thing for me with the exception of the 'Journal' and 'ATM' and even ATM is getting political.<< Sir, I assume you mean "Aikido Today Magazine" when you mention ATM? I always found that "The Aikido Journal" was better than ATM (more in depth articles and better writing as well as some great presentations of the history of Japanese arts). ATM always seems a little ... New Agey for me. YMMV. Taekwon, Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:56:26 -0700 (PDT) From: brent b To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Rank discussion Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all, soap_box == on The on going discussions on rank never cease to amuse me. What does rank mean to me? Let's see now - my nephew, who started TKD 8 years ago, is now my equivalant in rank in TKD. Now, granted, I'm old and somewhat decrepit but I've been in the martail arts since 1975. I've been in my present Korean martial art for only 16 years. Of course, I also have an in-law who is now well above me in rank who has also been doing TKD about 12 years. And his kids both now out rank me as well. So what does rank mean to me? Not really a whole lot. Without being brag-ish, I know a whole lot more about martial arts and how to teach it than any of them. Get on the mat, show me what you have and I'll let you know if I'll let you teach me. I won't call you master, no matter who you are. I don't care if you're certified or not. Show me what you know. That tells me if you out rank me. soap_box == off Brent (how blunt can you be) Balfanz __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "James Allison" To: Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:30:06 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido central Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I noticed in one of the post on Hapkido Central that someone mentioned that Myung Jae Nam was the president of the International Hapkido Federation. Actually he was the president. But He died in 2000 or 2001. Just for the record. Respectfully yours in Hapkido, James Allison P.S. Looking forward to seeing everyone this weekend at my school for some good old fashion Hapkido training with Do Ju Ji Han-Jae. If your going to be here you are going to miss a good one. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:47:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Brooke Thomas To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Beer and the Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net OK, I cannot passively sit by and read that the best beer comes from across the pond. California easily has the best beer in the world now with products from Bear Republic in Healdsburg, Stone Brewing in San Diego, Sierra Nevada in Chico, and Anderson Valley Brewing in Anderson Valley (to name just a few). So there. I am desperately trying to add a martial arts tie-in here somewhere....oh yeah! Don't drink and throw! Brooke Thomas Hapkido Blend --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:09:15 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Dan # 2 and 3 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Carfantan: Both Dan number 2 and 3 live in Korea. They are active in the promotion of Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan. Both members are respected martial artist but were not recognized by Grandmaster Hwang Kee as active members of the Moo Duk Kwan, but rather members of a splinter group using the name Moo Duk Kwan. Recently they were at the central Do-Jang in Korea and Master Lee, Boem Joo sent me a picture of them. They both appeared in the picture to be healthy. How was your visit with HC Hwang Kwan Jang Nim in Belgium? Did you meet Guzman Sa Bom Nim from Mexico? Did you tell them I said hello? I recently call HC Hwang Kwan Jang Nim so I know he is back from from Euro Soo Bahk Do visit. I did not get to talk with him however. JC --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:26:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Of Masters and Grandmasters.... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "......"Master" doesn't mean lordship or have any worship connotations. At least not at our school. Master is used in most all trades. We have master plumbers, master mechanical, master of arts in college, master sergeant, master gunnery, chief master, and even a master hard drive. In martial arts, "master" means someone has reached a certain level in their training and instruction - nothing more....." I was given to believe that the concept of "master" was not a part of Korean culture until the introduction of missionary schools and Western pedagogy. Apparently the concept of a school master in the administrative sense collided with the concept of a teacher. The Japanese (to keep this in a MA perspective) had dealt with this in the Ryu-Ha system by designating a Soke or "inheritor" in the administrative role and a "Shihan" or "Hanshi" in the instructors role. On rare occasions these two roles might merge but apparently there was greater stability in keeping the two roles separate. Since the Koreans never had the equivalent of the Ryu-Ha system, I sense that their culture never reconciled the administrative role with the teaching role. The concept of the "master" as both teacher and administrator is probably a ham-handed attempt at this reconciliation. As evidence I point to the broad spectrum of terms used to try to define this position, none of which are completely accepted across the board. For my money I can accept the term "Kwan Jang" or "director" and "Saengsa" or "teacher". What need we have for all those other terms is beyond me. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. 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