Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:48:21 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #153 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Master titles (Brian Locke) 2. Re: Master Pak (J R Hilland) 3. The real KMAIA (Tkdsid@aol.com) 4. Yet more TKD orgs (Ray) 5. Han loses heartbreaker (Ray) 6. Saei, Diaz win lightweight TKD title (Ray) 7. Last Word on Master Pak (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 8. US National Qualifier Questions & Answers (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:31:16 -0400 From: Brian Locke To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master titles Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just wanted to chime in with my two cents on this subject, even though I may not be as qualified as some to do so. I am only a second dan in TKD but have trained for quite a few years. I have not personally had any problems with the rank of some instructors I have worked with and never really considered the consequences that "phonies" play on the integrity of the arts as a whole. But after long and reflective thought on the matter it seems there is legitimacy with the passion I have seen here in this thread from other instructors and practitioners. The obvious problem I see is the compromise in the art's integrity but also individuals who propose a master status when in fact they posses very little knowledge and/or experience in their particular art. But the underlying destructive nature in which younger or less experienced individuals who train under these "masters" creates dangerous and misguided intentions. I understand and recognize my nativity with in the martial arts, so it is with this statement I hope you all not read too deep into as I tend to over simplify: I have always viewed the belt ranking system as a statement of control. The higher degree of rank, the higher degree of control or self discipline that student should poses. Should there be respect shown to these individuals who hold high rank? Yes. It is this degree of self control and discipline that should be reflected in the belt/rank that individual holds. Again, I understand I may be over simplifying this topic, but I believe all philosophy, which belt rank really is, has a foundation cemented in a very real concept. When I step onto a mat with a purple or red belt I understand that their control may not be as sharp as mine so I must always be defensively aware of their intentions. Even when they are on the defensive, their perceived lack of control and self discipline may put me in harms way. This philosophy is magnified ten fold when dealing with individuals who hold rank of a higher degree but have not committed themselves to art and the discipline it requires. It just puts us all at risk. I hope I have not offended any one too much. Semper Fi Brian Locke --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:14:26 -0500 From: J R Hilland To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Master Pak Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net And if you ask 10 different people what GM means, you will get 10 different answers. Very entertaining! Here is my answer - From the dictionary: grandmaster n : a player of exceptional or world class skill in chess or bridge. <<<....And as I stated, technically everyone using the title grandmaster for kwanjang is wrong. There is no such title..... ....At any rate, virtually anyone can be a kwanjang. It doesn't mean grandmaster. I think that most people put far too much stock in this term... and it is purely a western concept.....>>> --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Tkdsid@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:00:22 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] The real KMAIA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have mentioned here that Chubby Wannabe has ripped me off. I have confronted him and his response was to make a vile reference to my mother and make a thinly veiled threat against me. What slime. SR --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Yet more TKD orgs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Don't try this at home By ERIN VER BERKMOES / Niles Daily Star Wednesday, April 13, 2005 10:49 AM CDT NILES - Students at Brandywine Elementary School, were given a taste of Korean culture on Monday afternoon. Brandywine Elementary students were given the opportunity to experience a different culture, with a demonstration from the UTU XPL Tae Kwon Do demonstration team, from Seoul, South Korea on Monday afternoon. The students witnessed the shattering of boards as well as traditional sparring from the Tae Kwon Do students. The UTU XPL Demonstration Team, who are the 2004 World Champions, gave the students a musical martial arts display. The children ranged in age from 7 to 15 and were here in the United States for two weeks, training and doing different demonstrations. The students were able to see the children shatter boards, with their hands and feet, as well as acrobatics and gymnastics. They even did a bit of sparring. Grandmaster Gyung-Chae Lee, who is a ninth dan (black belt) is from Seoul, South Korea and his student Grandmaster Soon Pil Hong Ph.D, of the Universal Athletic Club on Ontario Road in Niles watched over the students during their visit here. Master Hong, is also the coach of the U.S. Tae Kwon Do team and an instructor at Southwestern Michigan College. He is also affiliated with the University of Notre Dame and Lake Michigan College. In South Korea, Tae Kwon Do is part of the culture, it is part of the school curriculum and the children there start learning it at an early age. School there goes year round and the students practice 1 to 2 hours each day, which allows them to be quite skilled at a young age. The Korean students came to the United States, so that Master Hong's students, who include Brandywine Elementary student Jesse Roberts, could train with the best of the best from Korea, and also to get the word out there about authentic traditional martial arts, including Tae Kwon Do. Master Hong along with his student Dr. Trevor Neal who is the current director of the Universal American National Tae Kwon Do Union. The UANTU was founded in 1985 by Master Hong, to give the U.S. practitioners a traditional foundation for their learning and certification. "We promote the martial arts, because they are good for people of all ages," Neal said. "It teaches you discipline, leadership skills, courtesy and self-esteem. It is also a good a form of exercise and and can relieve stress." Teachers were presented with a copy of the March issue of the Tae Kwon Do Times, which features Master Hong and Dr. Neal on the cover, so that the students could learn more about the sport after the presentation. Dr. Neal became a student of Master Hong in 1998, after researching area dojangs, along with his son Alex who was only three at the time, but he has been interested in martial arts his whole life. He grew up in Monmouth, Ill. and there wasn't a place there for lessons, so his father would drive the 8-year-old 32 miles, for a half-hour karate lesson. He also was able to take a Judo class at the local YMCA when he was 9. Choosing Master Hong, was an excellent choice for Neals', in July 2003 they were rewarded with an invitation to South Korea to test for their black belts, at the Kukkikon in front of Master Hong's instructor Grandmaster Lee. The Neals returned to Korea again last summer to complete their second-degree black belts and regard South Korea as their second home. They also have attained black belts in Hapkido through Master Hong. In 2004 Neal was named Secretary General of the Universal Tae Kwon Do Union, which is one of the world's largest Tae Kwon Do, organizations. He is the first non-Korean to hold an office in the UTU. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Han loses heartbreaker Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jason Han Loses Heartbreaker in Fourth Round of World Championships April 13, 2005 ustu.org United States lightweight Jason Han (Monterey Park, Calif.) advanced to the fourth round of the World Taekwondo Championships in Madrid on Wednesday before losing a heartbreaking sudden death decision to Japan's Takahino Niimi. After a first-round bye, Han defeated Karel Nosek of the Czech Republic (8-0) and Othman Bulares of Qatar (7-4) before losing to Niimi (6-6 (1-0)). In the women's lightweight competition, Nia Abdallah (Houston, Texas) lost her opening round match to Nohemar Leal of Venezuela, 5-2. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Saei, Diaz win lightweight TKD title Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Saei, Diaz Win Lightweight Taekwondo Title By Associated Press MADRID, Spain -- Hadi Saei of Iran won the gold medal in the men's under-72 kilogram category, while Edna Diaz of Mexico took the women's under-63 kilogram title Wednesday at the world taekwondo championships. Saei dominated Russia's Alan Akoev to win 5-2. Carlos Vasquez of Venezuela and Japan's Takahino Niimi won bronze. Diaz led Su Li Wen of Taiwan in the second round, but then had two points deducted for penalties -- leaving the final tied at 3 and sending it to an extra minute. Neither woman scored in extra time, leaving the decision to the judges. The decision "was very tight -- the victory could have been for either of us," Diaz said. Bronze medals went to Thailand's Chonnapas Premwaew and Australia's Carmen Marton. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:05:42 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Last Word on Master Pak Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Clay We both have a lot of time and experience in the Martial Arts. I believe in this issue you have missed the point that I am trying to make. FIRST- I am not in any way trying to discredit Master Pak's ability as a martial artist and instructor. SECOND- I agree that we in the US misuse the terms Kwan Jang and Grandmaster. Although many senior Koreans use both terms. THIRD- Master Pak began his training in Tang Soo Do (Soo Bahk Do) Moo Duk Kwan. He teaches what he was taught in the Moo Duk Kwan, He wears the Moo Duk Kwan trim (Midnight Blue). He earned the right to wear the masters belt and the dan trim while he was a student of the Moo Duk Kwan. He was promoted to the Ko Dan Ja level in the Moo Duk Kwan. He has a certificate from Hwang Kee Kwan Jang Nim that shows his promotion. He chose to use the term Grandmaster. What is he grandmaster of ? The name Hwa Rang World Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation. FOURTH- the difference between him and Hwang Kee Kwan Jang Nim, and the other original five Kwan leaders. is that they (the five originals) assumed rank out of necessity. Because no one had rank. Master Pak and others assume the title because they chose to leave an organization over political reasons or they got there feeling hurt, or didn't get there way, or what ever reason. FIFTH- I am not throwing stones at anyone. I am just stating fact. If someone starts an organization that is different in concept, in technique, in philosophy. They may deserve the title. To just leave one organization to start a new one, while teaching the same concepts, philosophies, and techniques should not in IMHO constitute a higher title. Maybe this has you upset because you use the title grandmaster. I don't know you. Maybe you deserve the recognition. My point is If I have a Sam Dan student leave my school and leave the Moo Duk Kwan organization to start a new school, under a new organizational name. Is he a grandmaster. I don't think so. This is my last comments on this subject. Maybe we can just agree to disagree Respectfully; JC --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] US National Qualifier Questions & Answers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net US National Qualifier Questions & Answers from USA Taekwondo Q: I have a nine year old blue belt boy and he wanted to compete in the Olympics. Does he need to go to one of the qualifiers or is the qualifiers for another competition. Also, under the Olympics webpage it states about Elite Open divisions and World Class, what is the difference in competition, criteria, and rewards? A: This year at the Junior Olympics there will be 2 divisions- the World Class division and the Elite Open division. The Elite Open division is just that.. an OPEN tournament in which as long as you get the application in by the deadline, you are able to compete. In order to compete in the World Class division, you must qualify at one of the 6 National Qualifier tournaments. The top 4 at each National Qualifier will be eligible to compete in the World Class division of the Junior Olympics. The medalists at the Junior Olympics in the World Class division will be eligible to compete in USA Taekwondo Developmental camps and clinics to be hosted by USAT later in the year. The World Class division offers additional exposure and is intended for those athletes wanting to continue through the Developmental Pipeline to eventually be a world class athlete. Q: Does every division have to qualify at the National Qualifers (i.e 8 yr. black or 6 yr. green)? A: The World Class division is for the Junior division (6-17 year olds- green, blue, red, and black belts) and the Senior division (18+- green, blue, red, and black belts). If an athlete wants to participate in the world class division at the Junior Olympics or Senior Nationals, that athlete must qualify at one of the 6 National Qualifiers. If not, they are free to enter into the Elite Open division of the associated tournament and will be accepted if all registration materials are received by the posted deadline. Please note that the Elite Open applications are not available yet. Q: Can you tell me when the applications for the Elite Division Open will be available? My daughter is 10 and a black belt and she wants to compete in the tournament? A: Applications for the Elite Open division at the Junior Olympics will be available the week following the US Open. Q: Why do the dobak pants of Juniors have to be plain white with no stripes? The Adidas Company likes to use stripes, and they make a nice uniform in fit and appearance. Are the same restrictions applied at the Seniors or the Open? A: If the stripes on the pants signify the brand or trademark of the dobok, they will be allowed. Anything else will not be allowed. Q: Will there be Ultra division competitions at the Nationals and the various qualifiers? A: There will not be ULTRA divisions at the National Qualifiers but there will be an OPEN tournament for Ultras in conjunction with the Senior Nationals in San Jose from October 27-30, 2005. Q: Is it my understanding that if a Junior athlete wants to compete in the world class division they must qualify at a regional? If they want to compete in the elite division at the Juniors then it is a non qualifying / OPEN tournament? A: If a Junior or Senior athlete wants to compete in the world class division, they must place in the top 4 at one of the 6 National Qualifiers. The Elite division for both the Junior Olympics and the Senior Nationals will be an OPEN tournament. Q: What happens if a color belt student places in the world class division but then decides not to attend Jr. Olympics? Could her place be given to the next student in line? A: At this time if someone drops out of the colored belt division for the World Class division, we will not be replacing them with another competitor from the Qualifiers. This is something that we would like to look into for future years. Q: My son is currently 7 years old. He will turn 8 on June 10th, prior to the Nationals in San Antonio. He is going to compete at the San Jose qualifier in March. Can he qualify in the 6-7 age group or must he fight in the 8-9 age group in March? Also, for clarity, if he places in the top 4 for Junior Sparring in his weight division he automatically has a spot in the National Tournament, correct? A: Because he turns 8 in 2005, he will be competing in the 8-9 year old age group for the National Qualifiers and the Junior Olympics. The top 4 from each division at each National Qualifier for the Junior and Senior sparring divisions will have a spot in the World Class division of the Junior Olympics or the Senior Nationals. Q: My 7-year old son, a blue belt, last year won 1st place in both Connecticut and Rhode Island. Does he have to go to a national qualifier? A: Yes, anyone wishing to compete in the World Class division at the Junior Olympics must compete and place in the top 4 at one of the 6 National Qualifiers regardless of their finish at last year's state tournaments. Athletes may not qualify for the World Class division of the Junior Olympics or the Senior Nationals tournament by placing at state tournaments. You can only qualify at a National Qualifier. Q: What result is needed in the national qualifier tournaments, to be eligible to compete in the nationals? A: Athletes will need to place in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd (top 4) in order to qualify to participate in the World Class division at the Junior Olympics or the Senior Nationals. Q: What is the honorarium for referees at the National Qualifiers? A: Referees at the National Qualifiers will receive $50 per day, double occupancy hotel, and meals. Q: Are you considering separating the 14-17 year old black belt group for competition? A: This is something that we are considering and bringing up to the WTF. Currently, we are following the WTF protocol for competition and divisions. The WTF specifies the guidelines for the 14-17 year old division for the black belts. Because the World Class division of the Junior Olympics will be the selection process for the Junior team competing in Aruba, we must follow these guidelines in order for the athletes to be eligible for competition in this international competition. Q: It is stated on page 11 of the San Jose Qualifier packet under the heading "Eligibility for 2005 National Qualifier Tournament" that "Competitors who with to compete in the 2005 US National Taekwondo Championships must qualify by competing in the Senior Sparring Division at one of the National Qualifier Tournaments." Does this mean every individual in all events included in 2005 Senior Nationals will need to qualify? A: Any athlete that wishes to compete for a spot on the USA team must make the top 4 at the Senior Nationals in the World Class division of the Senior Division. In order to compete in the World Class division, athletes must make the top 4 in one of the 6 National Qualifiers. The Ultra and Junior Black belt divisions at the Senior National competition will be an OPEN competition with no qualification for this event. Only the Senior division will need to qualify to compete in the World Class division. Athletes 33+ may compete in both the Ultra Open division and the Senior division. Q: On your release dated Dec. 10, posted on your website, you listed the event structure, qualification division Jr. division as 14-15, green, blue, red, black division. Is there truly a 14-15 yr old black belt division? A: Not at this time. There is a 14-17 year old black belt division but not a 14-15 year old black belt division. This question is something that is on our agenda to look into for the future. The 14-15 year old division is for colored belts only (green, blue, and red). Q: Is there a World Class Division for color belts and 12-13 year old black belts and younger? A: Yes, the World Class Division at the Junior Olympics is for ages 6-17 and green, blue, red, and black belts. Q: If he/she places at the World Class Division in a possible color belt division, does he/she have the possibility for developmental camps? A: If he/she places at the Junior Olympics in the World Class division, he/she will be invited to USA Taekwondo Developmental Camps, clinics, seminars, etc. and included in the High Performance Pipeline. Q: Do members of their respective Military Branch Taekwondo Team have to qualify at these "National Qualifiers" in order to compete at nationals? A: Yes, everyone must qualify at one of the 6 National Qualifiers in order to compete in the World Class Division at the Junior Olympics. Q: Do winners of the Elite Open Division at the Junior Olympics receive special opportunities? A: USA Taekwondo reserves the right to include the winner of the Elite Open division at the Junior Olympics into the High Performance Pipeline. Q: We have a blackbelt competitor who is 14 years old but not a U.S. Citizen yet. Does it mean she can't compete in the Regionals? A: All 14-17 year old black belts must be US Citizens and will be asked to show proof of citizenship in the registration process. All others including 6-13 year old black and colored belts and 14-15 & 16-17 year old colored belts may be US residents in order to compete. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest