Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:44:46 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #158 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. HKD Summercamp 2005 (Klaas barends) 2. Re: The_Dojang digest, Grand Master Means !!! (Raymond Navarro) 3. Fair judging (Ray) 4. Korea leads (Ray) 5. Laws (Frank Clay) 6. Re: The Other Shoe..... (Bruce Sims) 7. RE: To Bruce Sims - Do you practice a Korean art? (Howard Spivey) 8. Re: Re: The Other Shoe..... (Ray) 9. Middle East politics in TKD (Ray) 10. Pelligrini and Org's (FirstPe315@aol.com) 11. 3 Lopez wins (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Klaas barends Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:34:14 +0900 Subject: [The_Dojang] HKD Summercamp 2005 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Warning, shameless plug to follow. Ever thought about going to Korea to practice HKD? Don't have any connections to start from? This might be something for you. The Annual SangMooKwan Summercamp in Korea. Three weeks of practice, practice, eating Korean food, do some sightseeing but most of all practice. Have a look at http://www.sangmookwan.com/index.php?mode=info&Page=55 You don't want to miss this, trust me. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ Dutch HKD Federation http://www.sangmookwan.com/ SangMooKwan International Training Center Korea --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:44:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Raymond Navarro To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Grand Master Means !!! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all here and be blessed. For the title thing in Korean the term Sabum is a person that guides someone or someones in an activity, in our case a martial art and this would be translated as a personal guide and in the Korean or acian perspective and way of life it would be a person that would represent by way of respect and according to the things he tells us too do we do as it was a father figure the one that tells or asks us to do it ! The term Nim is a simble of respect such as Sir or as Sire for someone we would consider honorable. This is what a SabomNim is ! I am not Korean nor I speak the language but I have a Corean/Korean as my Teacher wich would be the word that we would want to translate Sabum to in the expretion as it is used in the Korean term for the martial arts school usage. Also he is a Korean and my teacher he is also by title in a way of saying it the KwanJang-Nim or KwanJang and this is because of his title a 9th Dan Black Belt and the founder of the Song Moo Kwan HapKiDo System.  Ok ! Really the term Kwan Jang are 2 fraces in one as HapKIDo are 3 fraces in one (sorry for my speling) Kwan Jang and Kwan means School as Jang is the term for Boss or Chief so this could be the expresion for anyone that owns or directs a school but this is something that it is a for granted thing: Besides being more the ouner of a school it more so as one would say it this way 'The Headmaster' of that one school but it would really be granted as the person that directs a group of schools that are under his guidance being each one of them owned by diferent people or by one person. Yo all know what I mean ? In any case I will give example of what I am saying : If I have 3 students that each have their own school but in what we would say is my organization and each one of them is under me and follow my guidance lets say in their program using a speciufic curriculum they are under my guidance even if I allow them to act on their own but they still have to report to me. ALSO could be that we are m,y school 2 more schools that belong to me and I have students that either they just get paid to manage them or to plain teach in them or that they and me are in busines and I have 1 more that is also under my supoervision in the cense that he reports to me even thought he haves his own school this is a KwanJang-Nim, a KwanjangNim or a Kwan Jang or Kwanjang or KwanJang of thta organization. Thanks for your time, patience, all be well. HAP HapKiDo Sabom: Ramon Navarro/Song Moo Kwan HapKiDo Panama 2. Re: Master Pak (J R Hilland) Message: 2 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:14:26 -0500 From: J R Hilland To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Master Pak Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net And if you ask 10 different people what GM means, you will get 10 different answers. Very entertaining! Here is my answer - From the dictionary: grandmaster n : a player of exceptional or world class skill in chess or bridge. <<<....And as I stated, technically everyone using the title grandmaster for kwanjang is wrong. There is no such title..... ....At any rate, virtually anyone can be a kwanjang. It doesn't mean grandmaster. I think that most people put far too much stock in this term... and it is purely a western concept.....>>>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a web-based email for life now ---> http://mail.hapkidokr.org --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 07:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Fair judging Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net WTF goes all-out to ensure fair judging at competitions 16 Apr 2005 MADRID, Spain (April 16, 2005) - The World Taekwondo Federation is going all out to ensure fair refereeing and judging at taekwondo competitions. The WTF reaffirmed today that it will put top priority on carrying out all reform recommendations related to refereeing and judging. As part of its efforts, the WTF will present the inaugural "Best Referee Award" to six referees who display the most impartial refereeing at the ongoing 17th WTF World Taekwondo Championships, which kicked off on April 13 for a five-day run at the Palacio de Deportes in downtown Madrid. As a strong display of authority, the WTFs Board of Arbitration also handed out penalties to two judges and one referee on the first two days of the 2005 WTF World Taekwondo Championships. The Board of Arbitration gave warnings to judges for their poor judging on April 13. One referee was suspended from doing his duty for the rest of the day on April 14. The WTF Reform Committee produced a package of recommendations on refereeing and judging in late February this year, which were unanimously approved by the WTF General Assembly held here on April 12. The WTF will set up an ad-hoc committee soon to finalize the time frame for implementing the recommendations. The proposed new rules on refereeing and judging will apply to all international taekwondo competitions starting next year. "To ensure the most impartial judging, we will do our utmost and all the reform recommendations concerning refereeing and judging will be implemented without fail," said Chungwon Choue, president of the WTF. "I believe that the presentation of the Best Referee Award at the championships will greatly help referees fair judging and refereeing." Given limited time, the WTF earlier decided to apply only two reform recommendations with regard to competition rules at the ongoing World Taekwondo Championships. The first is the introduction of a golden point system in case of a tied match, and the second is a shortened duration of the mens competition. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 07:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Korea leads Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Korea adds 3 gold medals on 3rd day of World Taekwondo Championships 16 Apr 2005 MADRID, Spain (April 16, 2005) - Korea reaffirmed its supremacy in taekwondo as it clinched three gold medals and one bronze on the third day of the 2005 WTF World Taekwondo Championships here today. Koreas Sin Kyung-hyeon won the gold medal in the womens over 72kg final match as she knocked out Diaz Iniabelle of Puerto Rico in the first round. Over 10,000 spectators watched taekwondo competitions in a very orderly manner at the Palacio de Deportes in downtown Madrid. Belgiums Rase Laurence and Chinas Liu Riu earned their respective country the bronze medal in the category. In the womens under 55kg final, Korean Kim Bo-hye edged down Turkys Marat Zeynep 8-7 to grab the gold medal. The bronze went to Canadian Ladouceur Orphee and Ahmed Helmy Eman of Egypt. In the mens under 62kg final, Kim Jae-sik of Korea defeated Brazilian Wenceslau Marcio 5-3 for the gold. Turkeys Dincsalman Kivanc and Israels Goldghmidt Llan shared the bronze medal in the same category. Spains Montesinos Ruben brushed aside a stiff challenge from Moroccos Abdelkader Zrouri to earn his country the second gold medal at the ongoing championships, which will conclude tomorrow. As of today, Korea topped other countries in the number of gold medals with seven, followed by host Spain with two. Iran, Brazil, China, Mexico and the United States each won one gold medal. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:43:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Laws Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sid, There are laws against it. Accepting money from someone by indicating that you are something you are not is fraud. The problem is that many will give you lip service but few will actually move forward to pursue these people. We don't need another law, we need people to step up to the plate and get the ones we have enforced. Until we do, not only are you being redundant, you are wasting your time. Trust me. In 2003, I was sitting where you are now and had lost a lot more money. We use bad business practices in martial art, such as not getting receipts, and that allows this kind of stuff to happen. So in a sense, we are in a hell of our own making. We have no one to blame but ourselves as WE empower people like Hackworth, Connolly and the others. Now I know I'm going to get some legal smegal email or letter from Connolly since I mentioned his name... but when the lurkers give this to that bunch of people, remember that I still have all of my certs and I can get letters from any number of organization supporting my claims. Think before you act. f. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:51:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The Other Shoe..... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: ".....Difficult to say, imho. Lee Won-kuk was apparently a 3rd Dan in a system that only went up to five. The kwan founder who disappeared during the Korean War, whose name escapes me right now, apparently was a 5th Dan in another system. So they were fairly high ranked, esp in those days. I recall seeing VERY few instructors over 4th or 5th dan in the early 70s. Now it seems that 9th and 10th dans are popping out all over....." I am probably having trouble with this because I am not TSD/TKD. Let me see if I understand what you said. Early on the folks had "lower rank" not because they weren't promoted, but because there were not that many ranks within the style, right? I will conclude that the ten-Dan system such as is seen today in the KMA was a relatively new version (Post WW II) of the older pre-WW II dan system. If thats true, then I would guess that they would have had sufficient rank to organize a hierarchy. But wouldn't the hierarchy have been a Japanese art? By this I mean that if I am rated high in Baseball here in the States I don't go to the UK and lay myself out as a Cricket coach, right? What is even more intriguing is that returning ex-pats did not help to reconstruct the much damaged martial traditions of Korea such as Taek Kyon, Ssireum, Charyot and so forth but brought Japanese material, REPRESENTED IT AS KOREAN and made it that much harder for the original arts to re-establish themselves. Had that happened it seems that it would have been their Confucian and patriotic duty to eschew the rank given them by the Japanese arts and resolve to work their way up under the few remaining Korean masters using the skills they had developed in Japan. Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:09:36 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: To Bruce Sims - Do you practice a Korean art? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Bruce, Given that you post occasionally about how some of the "traditional" styles of hapkido might be better off calling themselves Daito Ryu AJJ if that's what they purport to be (I believe I'm paraphrasing you accurately; if not, please correct me), I'd like to pose question to you: do you consider the hapkido that you practice to be a Korean art? If so, why? If not, why not? Regards, Howard --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: The Other Shoe..... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Early on the folks had "lower rank" not because they weren't promoted, but > because there were not that many ranks within the style, right? I will > conclude that the ten-Dan system such as is seen today in the KMA was a > relatively new version (Post WW II) of the older pre-WW II dan system. Dakin and others no doubt know better than I, but I believe Kano instituted a 10-dan system in Judo. However not all arts adopted it. Some had a 5-dan system. Even today it can vary from zero dan levels to 9 to 10 to 12 to 15. But to your real point, everything starts somewhere. If people hadn't taken one idea and improved upon it or degraded it or changed it we would have very few arts to select from today. These new creations are different, but they have roots somewhere in history. Sometimes we know those roots, other times we don't. e.g. does Japanese karate come from the Ryuku Islands or from the Fuchien province? Or after the changes can we now call it Japanese? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Middle East politics in TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Iran's Mehdizadeh avoids Israel test ahead of world taekwondo semi Tehran Times Monday, 18 April MADRID (IRNA) -- Iran's 62kg taekwondo player, Mohammad-Reza Mehdizadeh, avoided appearing on tatami against his Israeli rival before the semifinal stage of the 17th world event here Saturday. Mehdizadeh, who made the decision as a gesture of defending Palestinian people, was eliminated as Ian Goldsmith advanced to the semifinals. The Iranian donated his 2002 Asian silver medal to Jenin to pay tribute to Palestinian martyrs. Iran has won five medals, one gold, three silvers, and onebronze, in Madrid. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:01:37 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Pelligrini and Org's Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Been moving so I understand I'm behind. Just as a point of emphasis, he got rank from all of those org's except for Mr. Garrison's. I was in a Florida seminar when Mr. P was basically bucking for a 5th Dan, Mr. Garrison "in so many words..." laughed at him. Unfortunately, I think he got it from the following organization. Just to protect the reputation of my great past instructor of course... Jeff Hindley In a message dated 4/10/2005 4:02:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: He was in Benko's MTA (a TKD group), Weatherly's NAHA, Garrison's WOMAF, and Myung's WHF group. He may have also been a member of Hodge's WMKF. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] 3 Lopez wins Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It's A Family Affair Mark and Diana Lopez Follow in Brother's Footsteps by Winning World Championship Titles April 17 USA Taekwondo For the first time in Taekwondo history, three siblings have won world championship titles at the same event. Mark and Diana Lopez (Sugar Land, Texas) won the men's and women's featherweight titles on Sunday at the World Taekwondo Championships in Madrid, Spain. Their victories come on the heels of Friday's welterweight title won by their older brother, Steven, and punctuate the most successful world championships in U.S. history. Mark Lopez, 22, won six consecutive matches on Sunday to win the men's gold medal. Following an opening-round bye, he defeated Germany's Rehman Moghal (4-2), Ecuador's Edgar Borja (3-0), the Philippines' Ernesto Mendoza (7-5), and Egypt's Tamer A. Sayed (2-0) to reach the semifinals. There he recorded a 2-0 win over Dennis Bekkers of the Netherlands, and then beat Korea's Myong-Seob Song, 7-6, to claim the gold. Diana Lopez, 21, strung together six straight victories to win the women's featherweight title on Sunday. After a first-round bye, she dominated Miriam Bah of the Ivory Coast (5-1), Zuhridinova Sayyorahon of Uzbekistan (6-2), and Venezuela's Mirla Cabello (8-2) to reach the medal round. She continued her convincing performance with a 7-3 win over Canada's Karine Sergerie and topped it off with a 2-1 victory in the final over Korea's Sae-Rom Kim. On Friday, two-time Olympic gold medalist Steven Lopez, 26, won his third straight world championship title in the men's welterweight division, while Mandy Meloon (Sugar Land, Texas), who also trains with the Lopez family, captured the bronze medal in the women's finweight class. The oldest Lopez sibling, brother Jean, is the men's head coach at this year's world championship. He also served as the head coach of the 2004 Olympic Team. The three gold medals signify the best world championship performance for a U.S. team in it's history, and the four total medals equal the U.S. medal haul at the 2003 World Taekwondo Championships (1 gold, 2 silver, 1 bronze) when Steven Lopez won gold and Mark Lopez claimed silver. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest