Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:33:22 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #161 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Rank (Kevin Luttrell) 2. rank (Kevin Luttrell) 3. Chung Suk Guhapdo (J R Hilland) 4. Judo dan ranks (J R Hilland) 5. Re: Influences (Bruce Sims) 6. Hapkido History Redux (Bruce Sims) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:40:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Luttrell To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, Well, I think its unfortunate that these people buy rank or abuse the honor or rank. Although I agree with you wholeheartedly that its a poor reflection on the martial arts community as a whole. I do think however, that those types dont stand the test of time and scrutiny of willing students. I believe its a matter of education. One reason we, as martial artists have so many problems with unity is EGO, and the second reason is usually Money. Historically, it has been my experience that quite a few martial artists break away from their instructor and ultimately an organization because of one or both of these two reasons. I remember when I tested in Chunchon Korea as a gup level. We didnt actually pay a fee for our testing, we just paid our monthly dojang bee (fee) to support the instructor. It was usually an agreed upon fee. Testing was a little different, we left a monetary gift on a little table when we walked in the door to the host dojang. There was no set fee, it was an "honorable'" thing to do to support the host school for our participation in testing. But if you left nothing, noone would ever know the difference, or say anything. Of course, I never knew anyone who wouldnt leave something, that would have been rare, I think. In any case, I believe that the people who actually purchase rank dont last very long if they are teaching, due to the fact that most consumers are very demanding about paying for good training. I think the groups of these people usually end up together and the organization usually faulters due to a general lack of unity due to the same old things. EGO and MONEY or both. Students who last very long, and study, seeking out a good set of credentials usually leave these organizations early and end up with genuine martial artists who have honor and integrity in there hearts. inevitabley, a persons true character cannot be hidden once you get to know him and train with him a little. regardless of physical skill, His heart and character will reveal what he is all about. just my take on things after a few years of training, Master Kevin Luttrell Director The Martial Artist Foundation Springfield, Mo. Visit The Martial Artist Foundation Official Website at http://www.sporttkd.com or join The Martial Artist Foundation Yahoo Group for free and keep up on Sport Martial Arts events:= "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themartialartistfoundation/join"> --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:17:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Luttrell To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, I dont know of any TRUE Masters that expect anything other than common courtesy and respect to be given them anyway. As I said before, Its the people who honor you with the title who make the difference. People who actually sell this rank, have very little influence over anyone who has trained and earned his rank honestly. They dont hang out in the same circles, due to the fact that anyone who actually awards honestly earned rank wont have anything to do with them. Therefore, there is really no need to worry about those lines of people, they all end up together anyway, in there own special little group stroking each others EGO. Let them end up with their empty prizes, they will learn eventually by the way they feel. You see, honest rank, as you may or may not know, cannot be purchased with money. It is in the time sacrificed on the mat, the challenge gives way to achievement. Its what you know in your own heart is real... Those people who purchase rank, see that feeling that an honest martial artist has from the time sacrificed while training and there is no other way to get that feeling of achievement. Eventually, if they stick around long enough, they learn. Most drop out long before that point because they dont learn the valuable attributes gained from the sacrifice. I searched for a long time, for someone credible to authenticate my training. I purchased many memberships to organizations and prepared for testings, only to be let down time and time again. I actually was referred to some very high ranked and respected "Grandmasters" who actually asked me to send amounts ranging from 300 to 1000 dollars for Kukkiwon black belt certification. A few actually asked me to write a thesis or two. But after 10 years only 1 person actually took the time to call me, discuss my training, my training history, view a video of all of my forms and then after working with me a year without any request for a fee, he came and met with me personally, from Florida all the way to Missouri to test me and verify that I had been honest in my training. Only then, did he require any fee...He is my personal instructor today and because of his integrity and honesty I remain dedicated to his organization. My instructor is GM Edward B. Sell. No other person ever took the time that he has dedicated to my personal improvement. I could ruffle some feathers on this list, of contacts provided by well meaning martial artists, of people who could help me with authentic credentials. Some of these GM of whom I speak still monitor this list and they probably remember me e-mailing them and calling for information. So when I speak, I speak from experience. But, all this mentioned above leads to one fact. A martial artists true rank, and the value of that rank are in his heart. He knows if he's earned the honor or not. The honor of rank, lies not in the paper or the cloth that it represents, the honor of rank is in your heart. The value of rank lies with those who actually have travelled the path of honor, and share it with you. Master Kevin Luttrell Director The Martial Artist Foundation Springfield, Mo. Visit The Martial Artist Foundation Official Website at http://www.sporttkd.com or join The Martial Artist Foundation Yahoo Group for free and keep up on Sport Martial Arts events:= "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themartialartistfoundation/join"> --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:25:18 -0500 From: J R Hilland To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Chung Suk Guhapdo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Todd, congratulations on being named 1 of 6 students in the US with Master Lim. I first saw his work after Choi Young Sul retired to Master Lim's dojang. As he was with Choi Young Sul to the end, I do wish that he would write more history on that. A real player though. I had a short opportunity (only a few years) to study iaido, iaijutsu and kenjutsu (never studied kendo). Absolutely fascinating arts. No colored belts, no dan rank in the system (ryu) I was studying. Just students and those with teacher certification who were more advanced students (after all we are all students). Everyone dresses exactly the same. No egos, no anything. But the pecking order was obvious when it came to technique, and it was all about the technique. <<>> BTW, a quick question for the main stream taekwondo folks. In the USA, the title master is giving in hapkido at 5th dan, taekwondo (ITF) at 7th dan, aikido at 7th dan (shihan), what is it in USTU, etc. style taekwondo and tangsoodo? Just curious, as I have received several contradicting answers. Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:30:08 -0500 From: J R Hilland To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Judo dan ranks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My brother tells me that in aikido, the founder was the only one to promote a very select few to 10th dan and no one has ever again. I have an old video tape of one of the last 10th dan a couple of years before he died teaching a 7th-9th dan class. No mats. Wood floors and all hard falls. <<>> --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 23:04:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Influences Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Howard: The five major infusions into the Hapkido arts include: 1.) The ancient Tribal Military arts which formed the foundations for what we study today. 2.) The Buddhist Infusion: which introduced the moderating effect of individual ethics. 3.) The Confucian Infusion: which introduced the context of Societal responsiblity 4.) The Japanese Infusion: which contributed organizational context 5.) The Post WW II Infusion: which contributed the modern context we enjoy today. As far as rating importance, that will always be a matter of opinion. Its just a matter of what your basis for comparison will be. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:44:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido History Redux Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Howard: Its just easier to reprint this. "....... Hapkido ("Way of Coordinated Power") identifies a Korean method of combat utilizing hand strikes, kicks, joint-locks, throws, restraints and chokes. In its most specific use the term Hapkido identifies that art transmitted to Han Jae Ji by Yong Sul Choi between 1953 and 1957. In a broader sense, though, the term Hapkido has also come to identify Korean martial arts which incorporate both strikes and grappling according to the three guiding principles of Hapkido, and derive from, or are heavily influenced by, the Japanese martial art Daito-ryu aiki-jujitsu. Into this category fall a wide range of organizations (kwans) including, but not limited to, Mu Sul Kwan, Yon Mu Kwan, Hapki Yu Sool, and Jung Ki Kwan. There are also various federations and associations the most notable of which are the World Kido Federation, the International Hapkido Federation and the Korean Hapkido Federation. In its widest usage Hapkido also identifies organizations and arts which seek a greater representation of the Korean Martial tradition. These organizations' heritage may derive in some part from either the teachings of Yong Sul Choi, or his students. However, the way the body is used in these arts may, as much, reflect the strong Chinese and Buddhist heritage of the Korean culture. This category includes the arts of Kuk Sool Won, HanMuDo, Hwarangdo, Han Pul, Mu Yei 24 Ban (Kyong Dang), as well as the martial training practices of the Sun Monasteries. The modern art we know as Hapkido is the product of more than 2000 years of martial tradition which can be subdivided into 5 major cultural infusions and many lesser cultural influences. The first of these are the ancient tribal techniques (Sado Mu Sool) which are thought to have incorporated combat techniques best accomplished from horseback and would have included archery, lance, stone sword and knife as well as the brand of wrestling common to across most of central Asia. Practiced by the migrating tribes of the steppes of northeastern Asia, these martial skills formed the foundation for Korean martial tradition. The Second and Third Infusions to Hapkido were the introduction of Buddhist and Confucian belief systems to Korean culture as well as the attendant martial and administrative traditions from China during the 4th and 5th century. The introduction of Buddhist beliefs is reflected in the establishment of various codes which were established to guide the warriors' efforts in meeting his responsibilities to his community and country. Buddhist tradition pressed an accomplished warrior to submit to a code based on patriotism (Ch'ung), filial piety, (Hyo), fraternity (Shin) Justice (Yong) and Benevolence (Im). In this way the role of Buddhist thought for the Korean warrior was not unlike that of the Christian church in Western Europe with the development of Chivalry. From a fighting sense the addition of a code to the warrior’s training helped to dissuade the warrior from misusing his skill by abusing members of his family and community. The Confucian system, for its part, advocated a reverence for governmental authority and supported this through a hierarchy of levels, examinations, and offices. Such a strict hierarchical system readily lent itself to affirming the rigid class system comprised of the aristocracy, bureaucracy, farmers and slaves as well as the supremacy of the king. In a manner of speaking, then, if Buddhism indicated to the warrior what he was not to do and whom he was not to act against, Confucianism indicated the proper focus for the warriors’ skills in terms of government and superior authority. In addition to their respective religious and administrative influences, Buddhism and Confucianism were also avenues for the introduction of many cultural and martial traditions from the Chinese culture. Among these contributions are varieties of weapons and martial skills, strategies, tactics and order of battle, history, science, medicine and literature. These twin forces guided and supported Korean martial tradition but also contributed to it’s decline as well. As much as one might think well of the influence of the Buddhist faith, its power and influence in the Korean government soon was seen as a threat to the kings' ruling authority. The decline of the influence of Buddhism left an opportunity for Confucianism to make its influence felt. With steady support from various factions throughout the Yi dynasty (1390 to 1910) military tradition in Korean was seen as little more than a necessary evil which was continually minimized at every turn. Even those occasions which required a military defense such as the Japanese Invasion of 1592 by Toyotomi was not enough to stop the decline. The occupation by the Japanese in 1910 finally brought the Yi dynasty to an end. Initially more bureaucratic, the Japanese occupation experienced steadily growing resistance by the Korean people until harsh repressive measures were instituted in the 1930-s by the Japanese that outlawed nearly the whole of Korean culture and demanded the adoption of Japanese cultural counterparts. Japanese nationals were brought to Korea to dominate the agricultural and industrial base of that country and bringing with them such martial art traditions as Judo, jujitsu, Karate, Aikido, Kendo and Kyudo. Korean nationals were relocated to Japan to service the needs of the Japanese industry, farming and domestic service. The Fourth Infusion to the Korean martial tradition is best represented in the personal experiences of Yong Sul Choi whose teachings subsequently set the foundation for much of modern Hapkido. At the age of 8, Choi was reportedly taken to Japan from Korea, later abandoned and subsequently taken into the household of Sokaku Takeda, teacher of Daito-ryu Aiki-jujitsu. Choi states that he remained in Takedas' employ for some thirty years, before being repatriated to Korea at the end of the Second World War. To date, no documentation has been found to support Choi's statements regarding either his residence with the Takeda family, or his instruction in the art of Daito-ryu. However, it remains that Choi along with a very limited number of other Korean nationals such as Mok Jang In, and General Hong Hi Choi returned to Korea to add the martial skills they had experienced in Japan to those arts of the Korean culture as had survived, or had been introduced from Japan by the occupation. In 1948 Choi began teaching his art, yu sool, to Bok-sub Suh a Yudo black belt and president of a brewery. The name "yu sool" itself suggests that the arts' techniques included joint locks and throws. However, following an incident in 1954 in which Choi's student Suh used a sidekick in an altercation, the name was changed to "yu kwon sool", indicating that the art utilized kicks and punches as well. As a student Han Jae Ji had begun to train with Choi in 1953. Working with the head instructor of the school, Woo-woong Kim, Ji had begun to organize the kicking repertoire that would be identified with yu kwon sool. This introduction of various kicking techniques by Won-woong Kim and Han Jae Ji to the yu sool curriculum constitutes the Fifth and latest infusion of techniques. As with the martial sport of TaeKwonDo, the source for this kicking material was the historic national past-time of taek kyon and su bahk both kicking arts of long standing in the Korean culture. On beginning his own school in 1957 as a 3rd degree Black Belt, Ji is attributed with changing the name of the art to its present form, "hapki do" from "hapki yu sool." In this way, Ji is thought to have emphasized Hapkido as a "do" or "way of living" rather than merely a collection of techniques ("sool"). In this way, whatever principals may be examined on a physical plane such as motion, balance, leverage, timing and focus may also be regarded on an intellectual, emotional and spiritual plane as well. The result is that the art of Hapkido is as much a method of character development as a martial endeavor. Many Hapkido practitioners can trace their instruction back to Ji, or to Yong Sul Choi through Ji. Among the most notable personalities who have trained with Choi directly, or with Choi through Ji are Joo Bang Lee (HwaRangDo), Jae-nam Myung (International Hapkido Federation), Kwang Sik Myung (World Hapkido Federation), and Bong Soo Han (International Hapkido Federation). The members and cadre that descend from these lines support to Ji's reputation as the "father of modern Hapkido." There are also large networks of contemporaries to Ji who have sought to introduce innovation to the Hapkido teaching each in their own way. These include In Hyuk Suh (Kuk Sool Won), Kwan-wha Won (Moo Sool Kwan) and Hyun Su Lim (Jung Ki Kwan). In examining Daito-ryu, Hapkido and Aikido, another Daito ryu derivation, it is not surprising that one is able identify a number of similarities. All three arts support practice in both unarmed techniques as well as the use of weapons. Though curriculums vary from organization to organization, all three arts hold to the position that techniques remain biomechanically the same whether a weapon is incorporated into the movements or not. The weapons themselves continue to reflect a certain consistency in biomechanics, despite cultural variations. The Japanese iron fan or iron truncheon (jutte) is represented in Korean by the short stick, or dan bong. The Korean cane approximates the Japanese jo, or stick.. Sword, knife and staff techniques are often comparable in either Japanese or Korean culture though the Korean biomechanics more often bespeak their Chinese influences in circular rather than linear motion. To a lesser degree Hapkido practitioners continue to incorporate rope or belt techniques as well as the larger Chinese fans on occasion A second connection among Daito-ryu aiki-jujitsu, Hapkido and Aikido are their operation under of the same three principles whether on the physical, intellectual, emotional or spiritual plane. These are the Water Principle, Point and Circle Principle and Economy of Energy Principle. The Water Principle bespeaks adaptation to circumstances and a readiness to adjust an action or response with ease. Sometimes characterized as "tenacity" or "relentless" for the penetrating qualities of the liquid, the Water Principle is better represented by the manner in which water adapts to the shape of the container that holds it. In this way the Hapkido practitioner accepts whatever is given them to work with and makes the most of it. The Point and Circle Principle acknowledges that "all things are a cycle" and as such can be much easier to understand in cause and effect. A punch, thrown, does not remain extended, but is "recycled" to become perhaps a block, another strike or a grab. The same can be said for a kick, or a throw, perhaps walking, eating—in fact any activity. Actions occur and are recycled to become other actions as thoughts recycle to become other thoughts. In combat application, the interception and management of an attack is open to a greater number of options along the track of an arc rather than a straight line. An appreciation of the cyclical nature of events also allows for anticipation according to a variety of options and an execution of a particular option in a tangential rather than confrontive manner. The Economy of Motion Principle encourages the practitioner to identify the most efficient, least wasteful way of accomplishing ones' goals, and admonishes the student to avoid "working harder than ones' opponent" In this way, whatever is learned is under constant pressure to be done more accurately, efficiently and effectively. In this way a Hapkido practitioner learns to "work smarter, not harder" in dealing with conflicts. A third connection among Daito-ryu, Hapkido and Aikido is their reliance on a subtle hierarchy of sophistication which guides the practitioner to identify increasing levels of efficiency and effectiveness in their arts. For the Japanese arts the first level of expertise is identified as gentle technique (ju jitsu) which is approximated as 'soft technique" (yu sool) in the Korean tradition. Essentially an art based on strength; leverage and speed this level of expertise often includes a degree of pain compliance for the successful execution of the technique. Though the least sophisticated of the three levels, this skill level is perhaps the most widely exhibited among Hapkido practitioners and contributes to its reputation as a no-nonsense form of self-defense. The second level of sophistication is identified in the Daito-ryu tradition as aiki-jujitsu or "hapki yu sool" in the Korean tradition. Aikido for its part speaks of "blending" with ones' partner. All three states indicate the ability to use the nature of the attackers' own physical structure against them. Disrupting the attackers' foundation, balance. direction, timing or focus allows for the defender to optimize his assets in a confrontation with an individual of greater size or ability. Well-known among Aikido and Daito-ryu practitioners, this level is less well-known in the Hapkido community with the exception perhaps of the practitioners in Korea itself. The highest level of expertise is designated "aiki-jitsu" (lit: "spirit techniques") and is the subject of much debate within both the Aikido and Daito-ryu aiki-jujitsu community. This level of training allows the practitioner to exploit the biomechanical responses of the attackers' own body against him such as "conditioned responses," and "reflexes". In such cases the defender, then, is able not only to engage the enemy, unbalance them and use their strength against them, but incorporate the volition of the partners' own action in defeating the attack as well. Such practices are often attributed to cosmic forces loosely termed “Ki” (energy), but the fact remains that only sound training practices done over and over again seem to consistently produce this sort of “magic”. The organization of a typical Hapkido school reflects many of the accepted organizational practices common to most martial arts in both Korea and Japan. A director (kwang jang ) attends to the managing affairs of the school while an instructor (sabum) oversees regular instruction. Nearly all Hapkido organizations have adopted a hierarchy of ascending student (guep) ranks numbering ten through one and usually assign a belt color to indicate rank. Individuals committed to continued study, following completion of the student ranks, are assigned a rank of one through seven indicating various levels of competence and designated by a black belt. Ranks eight, nine and ten are essentially administrative positions. Consistent with the use of a Confucian educational model, criteria for advancement, testing policies, certification and licensure vary greatly from organization to organization and are regularly a source of negotiation and discussion in the Hapkido community regarding significance and relative merit. The art itself is an extraordinary inter-relationship among kicks, strikes, throws, joint-locks, chokes and projections all of which abide by the three principles of Hapkido. Though occasionally practitioners of the art will participate in competitions, the art of Hapkido, itself is not competitive. It is easy to see that for an art whose intent is to stop the fight, asking a practitioner to participate in a competition designed to extend a confrontation for even a few rounds does not make a lot of sense. Instead, Hapkido practitioners honor the Korean martial tradition that asks the warrior to serve his country, his family and his community by only coming out of the best part of himself to further the good of everyone. Bibliography - Kim, S.H (2000) The Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of Martial arts of Ancient Korea, Turtle Press, Hartford, CT. Kimm, H.Y. (1991) Hapkido; Hapkido II; Philosophy of Masters; Andrew Jackson College Press, Baton Rouge, La. Lee, J.B. (1979) The Ancient Martial Art of HwaRangDo (Vol. 1-3), Ohara Publications, Burbank, Ca. Lee, K.B. (1984) A New History of Korea, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Ma. Lee, P.H. (1993) Sources of Korean Civilization – Vol. 1&2, Columbia University Press, N.Y. Myung, K.S. (1982) Hapkido – Ancient Art of Masters, World Hapkido Federation, Seoul, Korea Omiya, S (1992) The Hidden Roots of Aikido, Kodansha International Ltd., Tokyo, Japan Suh, I.H. (1987) Kuk Sool Yang, J.M. (1992) Analysis of Shaolin Chin Na, YMAA Publication Center, Jamaica Plains, Ma. ........" Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest