Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 07:20:21 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #164 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Willy williams (Jye nigma) 2. It's not too late... (Christy Cory) 3. GM RKH break (Jye nigma) 4. Flying Side Kick (Jye nigma) 5. Great TKD demo reel!!! (Jye nigma) 6. Master Rank in TSD and Instructor Certification (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 7. Overnight Master? (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 8. master level (J R Hilland) 9. Master in USTU (J R Hilland) 10. FW: Re: Master Luttrell (Dewitt, Garrett) 11. spacers when breaking (David Weller) 12. Korean martial history (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 13. Re: Influences (Bruce Sims) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 05:53:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Willy williams Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/video/others/willywilliams.wmv __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Christy Cory" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:52:40 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] It's not too late... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To make your way to Brainerd, MN for GrandMaster Rudy Timmermans' Annual NKMAA Hapkido Seminar... Date:  Saturday, April 23rd Hosted by:  Master Garrett DeWitt Location:  DeWitt Martial Arts Questions:  Call (218)  828 - 8522 or e-mail to: brogue@brainerd.net Who:  All NKMAA and DD Members and other Martial Artists...Come "throw down" with us!  There is sure to be a good crowd, come and be a part of it!! --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 05:55:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GM RKH break Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/rltkd01/academy/gmrkhbrick.wmv __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 05:56:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Flying Side Kick Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/rltkd01/academy/lewiscutlercarjump.wmv __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 06:03:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Great TKD demo reel!!! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/video/others/Taekwondoway.WMV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:24:35 -0500 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Rank in TSD and Instructor Certification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere, In my organization, WTSDA, and in all TSD orgs I am familiar, Master title is given at 4th dan. I might also add that time in grade requirements are also generally longer in our and most other TSD orgs than in many other arts. In our org, Master title is independent of sah dan. In other words, all sah dans are not Masters. Master title requires a separate test with all senior Masters and requires that the person be running a studio. No real qualifications on school size, other than more than 25 students. My KJN's philosophy is that a Master is responsible for continuing TSD into the future. In addition, we have an instructor certification program that begins at cho dan for those interested in teaching and requires logging apprentice hours, and must be recommended by at least a sam dan certified instructor. Additional instructor certification requirements are being developed by our TAC Committee. Sah Dan Master can promote cho-sam dan. However, all our yu dan ja tests (cho-sam dan) are held on a regional level and are presided over by a testing panel of Masters. Danny Dunn --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:32:10 -0500 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Overnight Master? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jason, That is an interesting question. I always tell my students something similar: "Rank follows abilities and actions." No one becomes something different over night. Danny Dunn <<<>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:43:11 -0500 From: J R Hilland To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] master level Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks Kevin: I was really talking about kukki-taekwondo as every organization has different standards. When I was coming up through the ranks, it was a separate test with a prerequisite of rank. But hapkido was 7th dan then, 5th dan now. Taekwondo was also 7th dan then as it still is in the General's legacy. Ray mentioned: "One will frequently hear that master rank is the rank at which you can officially promote your students to 1st Dan. USA Taekwondo puts that at 4th Dan." Although I have never heard that one before, it appears reasonable for taekwondoin. I can remember being around a 2nd or 3rd dan, decades ago while I was taking my students from College Station to Houston for belt testing every month, then one day, I was told that my students were doing fine and I no longer needed needed to do that, just send in the paper work. But master level at 4th dan does appear strange to a hapkidoin. :) JRH www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:52:44 -0500 From: J R Hilland To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master in USTU Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net That one did not slip under the radar. I think I have the only Texas A&M former student sticker on the back of my truck in the whole state of ND! I will owe you one for that! :) JRH www.rrhapkido.com - always a native Texan... --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Dewitt, Garrett" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:59:18 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] FW: Re: Master Luttrell Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ______________________________________________ > From: Dewitt, Garrett > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:58 AM > To: 'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net.' > Subject: Re: Master Luttrell > > Master Luttrell wrote: > I could ruffle some feathers on this list, of contacts provided by well > meaning martial artists, of people who could help me with authentic > credentials. Some of these GM of whom I speak still monitor this list and > they probably remember me e-mailing them and calling for information. > So when I speak, I speak from experience. But, all this mentioned above > leads to one fact. > A martial artists true rank, and the value of that rank are in his heart. > He knows if he's earned the honor or not. > Master Luttrell, I too have traveled this route. With all of the hard > work, constant administration fees and oh yes, huge seminar fees the so > called "promised" authentic credentials NEVER came. Mostly, it came down > to just plain lip service, if even that. > In my case, Grandmaster Rudy W. Timmerman - Hap Ki Do and Grandmaster, Dr. > Eugene A. Humesky Ph.D., TKD, stepped up and walked the walk with me. > Since becoming a member within the > NKMAA and the U.T.B., nothing has come easy, however I do know that these > tough taskmasters > and gentlemen have my best interests in mind. Most importantly to me, > they have my students > best interests in mind and have never wavered from this. > It is very nice to read such positive comments about your Grandmaster and > your positive outlook on your future in the martial arts is also quite > refreshing as well. > > Best wishes > > Garrett --__--__-- Message: 11 From: David Weller Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 09:46:15 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] spacers when breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In this interesting clip Jye linked to, I noticed spacers (which looked like 3/8" nuts to me) between the boards. I have never seen spacers used in breaking in the school I attend and wonder what the advantages or disadvantages might be. It looks like it would aid in multiple board breaks, but I've never tried it. One of the more senior students at our school did a 5 board break (stepping 360 deg. back kick) at a demo. It was hard on the board holders. He wanted to do 6 boards at the next one, but none of us could figure out a way to hold them. This guy duct taped six together (thus forming a nearly solid hunk of lumber) and nearly killed himself trying to break them, as well as inflicting damage to the board holders. He had the power in the kick to do the break as the rearmost board did crack, but I think that darn duct tape was his enemy. We chuckle about this now and then, and if we can ever figure a way to hang on to six boards without the duct tape I know he'll shatter them. Thanks dave weller On Apr 20, 2005, at 7:53 AM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 05:43:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jye nigma > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [The_Dojang] rare footage > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/video/others/rheeslowmo.wmv --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 09:48:59 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean martial history Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote of the tribal martial arts: >"......Doesn't this portion of the "history" come via Kuk Sul Won's claims? That's the only place I've seen it. Do we have a source on tribal martial arts other than what KSW folks have published? Bruce replied: >I've always thought this was akin to Taekwondo's claims of a direct lineage to Subbaki. Which pretty much confirms that Bruce doesn't believe in tribal martial arts either. Bruce wrote: > If you think of the Hapkido arts as a cultural river flowing through Korean History its a whole lot easier to see how various people(s) add into and took out of the Korean traditions. I think so too. And I think that the river is getting wider and wider as wider knowledge/codification of styles has led to a lot more streams flowing into that cultural river. Bruce wrote: >Mao, Yuan-i used Korean sword material to revive Chinese swordwork when he wrote his encyclopedic "Wu Bei Zhi" in the 16th century. What's your source for this one Bruce? I don't remember seeing any reference to Korean sword work in relation to that piece. Bruce wrote: >The question you may really want to ask is what were the influences of Choi Yong Sul and why did he and his students not do a better job integrating his yawara material into the remanants of the Korean traditions? I'm not sure where you're going with this one Bruce. I suppose one could ask, why was Bruce Lee regarded as an innovator (or at least a change agent) in the US? Chinese martial arts had been in the US since the 1850s, so why hadn't American martial artists incorporated those techniques? History is change over time, so I think we have to expect change, right? It is for that reason that I think that looking for the "true" hapkido is a quixotic task, because it demands that we select one moment in time and preserve it in amber as the one "true" moment in the existence of an art. One can try to do that of course (although the task becomes one of constantly modifying one's interpretation of that moment in an attempt to portray the true art), but it is a lot more fun to jump into the river and do some of the changing. Bruce wrote: >Long Fist, Tan Tui, Praying Mantis, Taek Kyon, Ssireum and a host of lesser practices were all in Korea BEFORE Choi returned. How come he didn't do more to integrate with those? Hmm. Well, tan tui, longfist and Praying Mantis _may_ have been in Korea before Choi returned from Japan, but again, what's your source? All I've seen is the introduction of Chinese martial arts to the ROK by Chinese refugees fleeing 1949 revolution. Take care, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:01:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Influences Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: "......My point... we know that a subak and a gum mu and a gak chuh and a sang bak existed, but we do not know what they were like. Is there anything in Hapkido or Hapkiyusul or Kuk Sul Won or HwaRangDo that comes directly from these ancient games and activities? That is the body of fact and documentation that is needed to make the statement that these ancient arts are found today in Hapkido....." I honestly don't want to sound condescending but I am going to make this even easier than that. Go to Turtle Press and purchase their tape on Ssireum. Compare what you see there to what people do with throws and pins in the Hapkido arts. Go to BLACK BELT, TSUNAMI or AIKIDO JOURNAL. Purchase videos on SUMO and bump it up against the yawara material from DRAJJ. The relationship is the same. The Koreans did not need the Japanese to teach them how to do a hip throw, an elbow-locking pin, to strike and manipulate in the same art. Now, I am noticing something as this discussion progresses. I am the one furnishing the information and other folks are sorta sitting back and saying "I am still not convinced--- give me more information." Excuse me, but when are folks other than myself gonna start digging into the same histories and resources that I am and begin to contribute? How come I seem to be the only person who is furnishing factual material here? I feel quite a bit like I dig up information and others are at the leisure to judge it "acceptable" or "unacceptable"---- "valid" or "not valid"--- as you will. I will also mention that the other day I was in an exchange with someone about Hapkido arts and BJJ. He was advocating for the use of BJJ training approaches and I said "fine, just learn the Korean material first". He said there was none. After quoting book, chapter and page the conversation stopped. Now here is someone who is arguing about something he has not even researched for himself. Once he had the facts the conversation stopped. See my point? How come I am working harder at digging out the facts than other people in these discussions? FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest