Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:33:20 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #167 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: The full system (Jye nigma) 2. Ji, Han Jae Seminar (Wilson, Byron) 3. Terrible (Jye nigma) 4. matrix pong (Jye nigma) 5. martial arts in staw wars episode 3 (Jye nigma) 6. why we need cups (Jye nigma) 7. RE: spacers when breaking (Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)) 8. RE: breaking with spacers (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 9. Chinese martial artists, and breaking boards (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 10. Re: Rank Transfer (Bruce Sims) 11. Re: Using the right words (Bruce Sims) 12. Female Athletes Training Camp (femaleathletes@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 05:01:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: The full system To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net not sure why this way was but William cheung is one who knows the whole system; the 3 forms plus a hidden form something like that. Jye Beungood8@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/20/2005 2:27:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Bruce Lee probably would have learned ground grappling, but by the same token Bruce Lee is not an authority in Chinese Martial Arts. He was not purposely taught the full Wing Chun system. Eddie Urbistondo Why was this? Who WAS taught the full system? JAck _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:32:42 -0400 From: "Wilson, Byron" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Ji, Han Jae Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As a follow to Master McCarty's note, I also attended last weekend's Hapkido Seminar. As a full fledged white belt, I left very sore, very confused and very interested in Hapkido. Grandmaster Ji was very personable and relatively kind in light of my gross ignorance. It was interesting to watch as he executed defenses, attacks and combination. His footwork was very purposeful and delicate but the results were always successful. To his credit, there were times when he also showed how muscle could counter a "textbook" hold. He then instituted another solution rather than have the "attacker" cooperate. I am very grateful that I was able to attend and train with Master McCarty and the other black belts there. Master McCarty was direct, firm and sweated like the rest of us. He also did not "lighten up" when I howled in pain. He, and Grandmaster Ji, both wanted us to experience the full feel of the technique and could do so without concern about breaking of tissue or bone. Due to the "entertainment value" my inexperience provided, I may ask for a reduction in admission to the next seminar. Byron C. Wilson TKD Student, HKD wannabe (614) 387-9300 wilsonb@sconet.state.oh.us --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 05:27:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Terrible Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Man this cat is horrible with his bagwork...just a terrible clip...lol: http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/video/Reels/Training_At_Home.wmv __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 05:48:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] matrix pong Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/video/funnies/matrixpong.wmv __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 05:53:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] martial arts in staw wars episode 3 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/rltkd01/academy/starwarsjediacademyfreak.wmv __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 05:50:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] why we need cups Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/video/funnies/thisiswhyyouwearabox.wmv __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] spacers when breaking Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:57:35 -0500 From: "Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)" To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Our organization NEVER uses spacers, even in demonstrations. Our regional instructor has a picture of GM Duk Song Son breaking 8 boards with a punch NO SPACERS. That is one amazing photo. They usually display it at our regional tournament. I have not seen the photo but my instructor says there is another photo of GM breaking 10 boards with a side kick. Brian Woodard -----Original Message----- From: Gladewater SooBahkDo [mailto:GladewaterSooBahkDo@msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 5:38 PM To: the_dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] spacers when breaking Spacers when breaking serves only one purpose. To "WOW" the crowd watching you. It lacks humility. Breaking should be a gauge of power and accuracy, and nothing more. We do NOT allow any student to break with spacers. The general public does not usually catch this, all they see at a demo is (He broke xx amount of boards) I broke 7 boards at a demo last year with a side kick. The key was to only tape the front two , to the rest of the stack, Then get some large, tall guys to hold and about 7 or 8 people to back them up. I also suggest using the duct tape around the holders wrist for support. IMHO more people should be training to improve there skill and give less thought to hwo they can impress the public. I see nothing wrong with breaking just break to gauge your power and accuracy. If you want to demo your ability that's OK too. Just demo your ability to break, no your ability to cheat. JC _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:49:15 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: breaking with spacers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JC stated: "Spacers when breaking serves only one purpose. To "WOW" the crowd watching you. It lacks humility." and "Just demo your ability to break, no your ability to cheat." My reply: That's pretty harsh words, don't you think? I have to totally disagree with all that. Yes, it is harder to break 3 boards unspaced than it is spaced, that is true. But what about building confidence in the younger ones who don't have the strength yet to break 3 or more boards unspaced? Yes, breaking is a gauge of power and accuracy BUT more importantly it is confidence and courage builder. Some may say that I am creating a feeling of false confidence in my students with that attitude, I do not. When I introduce breaking to my students, I make it VERY clear that there are two types of breaks. One is power breaking. This is where 2 or more boards are stacked on top of each other without spacers. The other is speed breaking. This is where 2 or more boards are stacked with spacers or held nonsupported by the fingers only of the holder or even tossed in the air and broken when they come down. We do both type of breaking. All of my students know the difference. They know not to get discouraged if they can break 3 boards with spacers and then later try 3 boards without spacers and miss the break. They understand that is 2 totally different kinds of breaks. With children I very rarely allow them to attempt a break of 3 boards without spacers with hand techniques like a palm strike, hammerfist, or even a punch. That is too much wood for a child who's bones are still growing. Every now and then I will get one who can break 2 boards without spacers over and over. Depending on his size, rank, and maturity level, if he wants to try 3 boards, I may let him/her. Even though they may not make the break, they understand that it is a difficult break and to train harder until they are able to make that break. To see a child's confidence level rise to great heights after breaking 2 or 3 boards spaced, is a great feeling. I see nothing wrong with that. They do understand that as they get older, stronger, and gain more experience, that the breaks without spacers become the expectation. On a side note JC there is one thing that I do notice in breaking during TKD demos that I consider "cheating". I do not like the fact that people like the South Korean demo teams and almost all WTF-style TKD folks I have encountered use the 1/2" thick and 1/4" thick boards for demos. They are waaaay to easy to break. Why not use boards like the 1" think ones in order to truly challenge the person doing the break? I have a breaking tape that was made in Korea and on the tape one of the WTF masters broke 5 of these 1/4" inch boards with only his thumb! Impressive, yes, but I'd like to see him try that with five 1" thick boards. Now THAT would be impressive. I have never seen any ITF-style guys break these 1/2" and 1/4" inch boards, ever. I don't mean any disrepect towards any WTF folks out there. I have seen many WTF black belts break and ungodly amount of concrete, roofing tiles, and bricks. To build confidence is the number one reason we break at our school. You've GOT to have confidence in yourself and your abilities before you can attempt such breaks as 3 or more without spacers. With all due respect...... James Morgan www.gtkda.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:44:42 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Chinese martial artists, and breaking boards Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce wrote: >See: MYTBTJ; Book Two, Chap 2. Author is citing Mao's WU BEI ZHI which I think is either Chapter 82 or 84 of that work regarding the BON KUK GUM BUP. Cool! Thanks Bruce, I'll go look it up. Regarding the rebuilding of Korea after WW2, Bruce wrote: >I think that the Koreans with their extreme sensitivity to the established order would have well worked to rebuild the culture with new ideologies and practices albeit in deference to establish customs and culture. Well, if you think about it, they did about what you would expect. Most Koreans did not know what Korean culture was. They had been under Japanese occupation for two generations, and Hwang Ki points out that as a result when they thought of a modern nation to emulate, they always came up with the Japanese. The Japanese defeated the Chinese in the Sino-Japanese War, which is how they got into Korea in the first place. The Japanese also defeated the Russians (another neighbor of the Koreans). So they looked at what the winner was doing and did that! And the ROK, quite frankly, had bigger problems than what martial art they were going to practice. It was a nation filled with jingoistic patriots, former Japanese collaborators, Japanese-style monks (that could marry!), Japanese-Korean kids, Communist infiltrators and agitators, businessmen eager to draw in American money, organized criminals taking advantage of the confusion, and many desperate people just trying to earn a buck and get by in a nation that had been raped by the Japanese. And one of those desperate people was a guy called Yong-Sul Choi, who lucked out when a rich brewer (Bok-Sup Suh) saw him fight in the street over his bucket of grain left over from the brewery. Who could blame him if he wanted to make a buck teaching martial arts? Better than selling rice cakes on the corner! >It's a whole lot easier just to pull up the available "trees" such as the one for Praying Mantis, note the ones who taught in Korea and check their histories. Yian Pin Jao (student of Wang Yu Shan b.1892), Lin Pin Zhang (student of Ji Chung Ting ) Both of these teachers were in turn taught by Jiang Hua Long (b. 1855). Ok, Pin-Zhang Lin is the same as Poom-Chang Lim (1910-1982), right? And he came to ROK after the 1949 revolution. His info can be found at http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/linpin.htm Pin-Jao Yian seems to have come to Korea at the same time. His data is at: http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/yianpin.htm But both of these guys weren't in Korea before Choi (who started teaching hapkiyusul in 1948, a year before they arrived). Do you know of any Chinese stylists teaching in Korea before 1949? I'm sure there were some, but they don't seem to have left an impact. I wonder if a lot of Chinese left Korea after 1892. Anyone have access to immigration records from that period? JC wrote: >Spacers when breaking serves only one purpose. To "WOW" the crowd watching you. It lacks humility. Breaking should be a gauge of power and accuracy, and nothing more. Hmm. I take the opposite opinion. Breaking boards is just a demonstration skill, nothing more. Breaking boards when not demonstrating is a waste of money and wood and occasionally results in an unnecessary injury. If the public is impressed with breaking one concrete, why break more? I remember Richard Barathy breaking his arm something like 17 times doing big flaming breaks. Martial arts is about health for me, so I don't tend to jump up and volunteer to hold someone's multi-board break any more. >Then get some large, tall guys to hold and about 7 or 8 people to back them up. I also suggest using the duct tape around the holders wrist for support. Riiiiiipppppppp! Hope they don't have wrist hair! How about just doing a self-defense demo and taking those large tall guys into a submission position? That actually hurts less. :) To each his own, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:53:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Rank Transfer Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jere: ".....In hapkido, then you would just stay a sadan. I like that. Having had been in both types of organizations, I prefer the that they just stay a hapkido sadan. There is no confusion as to who is what. ...." Excuse me, as this may seem like a really dumb question, but Whatever happened to starting over when you joined a new school? Most organizations are style or art-specific so joining a new organization is pretty much always a matter of joining a new style or art. Where was it written that peoples' rank automatically transferred to the new art. I have a Masters but that doesn't make me an MA in Business even if I join the Chamber of Commerce. Who started this crap about transferring rank and grandfathering people in. Seems like if you like "the music of rank" you have to both pay the piper and dance to the WHOLE tune, right? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:03:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Using the right words Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".....I was a little put off with the tone of those comments also. Step on the Mat and train with the 9th Dan and feel his mastery before you make judgements. GM Lim is the real deal. Who are you too judge?...." You still have not answered the question. Read my post. The question is simple. Todd said that Lims' Guhapdo is recognized by the Korean and Japanese Governements. I am asking what form this recognition took. So far all I have gotten is indignance about how I dared not take Lim at his word. I don't know Lim and if the responses I am getting are indicative of the students he produces I don't care to. But if somebody says that his material is recognized by the Korean Governement or the Japanese Governement I would like to know what form that recognition comes in. Now if you want to expand this to a question of whether or not GM Lim is the "real deal" I think that discussion can be put in the same bin with "is it colder in the moutains than it is in the winter" and "how high is up". You have your opinion and I have mine. But that is not the question I asked. I asked how Lims' Guhapdo is recognized--- and I am waiting for an answer. Regards, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 11:37:55 -0400 From: femaleathletes@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Female Athletes Training Camp Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello! We want to remind you of the Female Athletes Camp here in Colorado Springs this summer. (FAI) We would like to see you there! Please register soon! The Female Athletes Taekwondo Training Camp is July 22-28,2005 For your application, pictures, and detailed information... you may visit www.familytaekwondo.biz Space is limited--you are strongly recommended to pre-register in May! Discounts available for multiple family members, friends that sign up together, and special discounts for teams of 5 or more. If you would like more information, or have any questions, please feel free to call us Jan Speights - Camp Coordinator #719-635-0510 Coach Kunkel - #719-650-3666 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest