Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:58:29 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #168 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on behemoth2.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Update, 1st LA City Mayor's Cup (Ray) 2. Rank Transfer (J R Hilland) 3. Re: Howards' Question (Bruce Sims) 4. JI HAN JAE SEMINAR IN GEORGIA (James Allison) 5. Interviewing Potential Students (Chris) 6. one inch boards and WTF (David Weller) 7. Cattle Prods (Ray) 8. Re: one inch boards and WTF (David Hayes) 9. Re: History (Kevin Luttrell) 10. Wrestling (Dr. Daryl Covington) 11. Re: Wrestling (Dr. Daryl Covington) 12. RE: Sip Soo History (Ken Nessworthy) 13. Re: one inch boards and WTF (Ray) 14. Re: JI HAN JAE SEMINAR IN GEORGIA (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Update, 1st LA City Mayor's Cup Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Update... The 1st Los Angeles City Major's Cup TKD competition will take place on Saturday, April 30 and not on Friday, April 29. See http://www.laitc.org for more info. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 11:42:09 -0500 From: J R Hilland To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Rank Transfer Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce: Very true. But transferring rank was not discussed, although that is why most of us carry a white belt with us when we visit another dojang. JRH www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:19:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Howards' Question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry about that, Howard. Hope no offense was taken. "...My question boils down to this: Is the source of technical essence of Hapkido what Choi learned in Japan and brought back to Korea? Suggestions that this one, that one and the other one "should" have added martial material from the Korean tradition seem extraneous to this question. The question I'm posing is one of historical fact, not one of what anybody should have done......." The answer to your question is a resounding "Yes". Within the context of a single infusion of materials--- whatever the source--- safeguarding the integrity of the infused material can only help to safeguard the integrity overall, wouldn't you agree? And, when people want to talk about "Hapkido", the problem becomes "what" are they calling "Hapkido" and who are they 'including in" or "including out". If I am reading your post right, in your particular case you are a bit more general than limiting Hapkido only to Ji's tradition. You are also a bit more limiting than including all of Korean martial tradition. Am I right so far? So for you the essence of Hapkido would certainly be governed by Choi Yong Sul because he is the only source recognized within your definition, yes? In my case I am inclusive of all Korean martial traditions, but exclusive of all non-Korean traditions (Karate, Judo, Aikido) as well as "sport traditions" such as Taekwondo. I am not yet sure where Taek Kyon fits in but nobody said I had all the answers. So as I say, the answer to your question is a resounding "No". Within the context of defining Hapkido in the larger sense of Korean martial tradition in toto Choi Yong Sul is one more contribution. As the most recent contribution his is the most influential to be sure! And with the advent of media and the Internet he has become one of the best known if not THE best known contribution. But he is not the ONLY contribution and I would not say that his material constitutes the "essence" of the Hapkido arts. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "James Allison" To: Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:55:05 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] JI HAN JAE SEMINAR IN GEORGIA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to thank everyone that attended the Georgia sin moo Hapkido seminar with Do Ju Ji Han Jae. Special thanks to Master Chad Zwieg for all his help and insight into not only the technical side of the art but to the philosophical principles behind what we do. I really appreciate Master Mike McCarty for attending our event. It was great to work with such a top notch player. To all the folks that came from far and wide thank you for your support. Thanks to all my students that endure the aftermath of the seminar as I practice all the techniques on you that we learned at the seminar. Mr. Wilson, we all feel your pain. You are a real trooper and you have my respect. ( and 20% off your next seminar with us ) Last, but not least thanks to the man that deserves more credit than he gets. Do Ju Ji Han Jae's knowledge, experience and awesome ability to teach is second to known. I have learned more from him in the last three and a half years under his guidance than the previous 24 years of my training. If you haven't had a chance to train with Do Ju Nim and like to train hard then I highly recommend that you attend Master McCarty's seminar September 10 & 11, 2005. I will be there with a group of my students. Respectfully yours in Hapkido, James K Allison www.hapkido-america.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:43:25 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Chris Subject: [The_Dojang] Interviewing Potential Students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Do any of the instructors, on this list, conduct interviews with potential students before allowing them to become members of your school? If so... what kind of information are you looking for and why? what are some of the questions that you ask? how do you determine the persons eligibility to become a student? -Chris Callahan --__--__-- Message: 6 From: David Weller Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:17:22 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] one inch boards and WTF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Morgan Wrote: > I do not like the fact that people like the > South Korean demo teams and almost all WTF-style TKD folks I have > encountered > use the 1/2" thick and 1/4" thick boards for demos. They are waaaay > to easy > to break. Why not use boards like the 1" think ones in order to truly > challenge the person doing the break? Mr. Morgan, Not ALL WTFer's use small boards. We've never broken anything but 1" (3/4 actually, the lumber yards just call it 1") lumber in demonstrations.. Have a great photo of one of our senior instructors breaking 4 with a Lung Punch (sort of like an uppercut from the hip, with the target area the floating ribs, solar plexus etc. For those not familiar with the term). No spacers. I try to imagine the damage that would inflict on the human rib cage... ouch! I have seen the skinny-mini boards used recently at belt promotions for the little tykes. Nothing wrong with that. If they start using them for us oldsters, I reckon I'll pack my own, pardner! Although we have never used spacers, I'd not be above trying it, with my teachers permission, just to see how it feels and looks. take care, dave weller --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Cattle Prods Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net fwiw, the updated list of US TSA permitted and prohibited items on US flights may be found at: http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/Prohibited_English_4-1-2005_v2.pdf Cattle prods and crowbars may not be carried onboard, and neither are martial arts or self-defense items permitted in carry-on luggage... including billy clubs, black jacks, brass knuckles, kubatons, night sticks, nunchakus or other martial arts weatpons. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "David Hayes" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] one inch boards and WTF Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:33:05 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am in a WTF club and we have never used anything but 1" boards. I haven't seen a testing since I have been back but it used to be that either testing for red or red and up required two boards (unspaced) holding for yourself in one hand and striking with the other. I can see using spacers for cement slab breaks. It does require you to maintain the force all the way through. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Weller" To: Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 3:17 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] one inch boards and WTF > Mr. Morgan Wrote: > > I do not like the fact that people like the > > South Korean demo teams and almost all WTF-style TKD folks I have > > encountered > > use the 1/2" thick and 1/4" thick boards for demos. They are waaaay > > to easy > > to break. Why not use boards like the 1" think ones in order to truly > > challenge the person doing the break? > > Mr. Morgan, > Not ALL WTFer's use small boards. We've never broken anything but 1" > (3/4 actually, the lumber yards just call it 1") lumber in > demonstrations.. Have a great photo of one of our senior instructors > breaking 4 with a Lung Punch (sort of like an uppercut from the hip, > with the target area the floating ribs, solar plexus etc. For those not > familiar with the term). No spacers. I try to imagine the damage that > would inflict on the human rib cage... ouch! > I have seen the skinny-mini boards used recently at belt promotions for > the little tykes. Nothing wrong with that. If they start using them for > us oldsters, I reckon I'll pack my own, pardner! > > Although we have never used spacers, I'd not be above trying it, with > my teachers permission, just to see how it feels and looks. > > take care, > dave weller > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:28:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Luttrell To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: History Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce wrote: Excuse me, but will you kindly tell me what this exchange has been about, then? People on this Net purport to practice Korean Martial Arts. Isn't that what this forum is dedicated to? And one can reasonably expect that there is some quality or another about the nature of martial traditions from Korea that people here are enamoured with that they do not find with martial traditions in other cultures. So far the ONLY uniform quality that seems to consistently attract a large response is when people start playing the "accountability game". I think the answer is very simple, My responsibliity to uphold standards and I would be accountable to those people who I choose to be accountable to. I am accountable to those people by choice. My personal study leads me to a very strong opinion of what martial arts should be for Me. But who am I to say what martial arts should be to YOU. Who are you accountable to? I study history, philosophy and Not only Korean but other cultures also, I like to compare the commonalities. Univeral principles are common between Korean and Japanese, and Chinese, and European martial arts history. Each has a little different protocol to their code but they all have one. So what I believe begins with the universal principles from different cultures, then I can converse with those I respect and have chosen to call my seniors. that way I can ask questions from my study. Now where the problems start is when someone, who may be senior in rank, but arent the people who I trust to learn from, have a different version of the teaching, due to obviously flawed historical record keeping. Someone who forms his own personal opinion and assumptions based on experience, study, and exchanges with those people whom he has chosen to follow. Just because I give this person respect of rank, out of common courtesy. Doesnt mean I have to accept that his version of history is accurate, even if he can spout out historical scripture to document it. WHY, is that. TRUST. That is usually gained by matwork and time. On those occasions the identified personality is roasted for doing something that others do but simply have not been caught at yet. The arguement proceeds as people strain to prove that Mr. X has done "bad" while there is a "very good reason" that what Mssrs A, D, G, H and P have done, while appearing the same is actually VERY different and all to the good. Is this what draws people here and causes them to report that they follow Korean Martial Arts? Is it that the Korean Martial Arts contain more Wiggleroom for shaping things into whatever a given person wants those arts and traditions to be? Maybe thats what makes what I do so threatening, yes? After all the more we pin things down the more people will find that Korean traditions are not some historic "Swiss Army knife" with which one can carve out whatever story a person cares to have. Thats why we call it STUDY isnt it. I have found that its more a benefit if I take a learning attitude with people I havent developed a relationship of trust with. They seem to be a little more receptive to my questions. I have found that if I speak with authority to people whom I havent developed this relationship with and what they have learned as truth is conflicting, they tend to get a little defensive. I guess I am wondering why you bothered to ask after the information I furnished? I never asked for information.... but thanks for giving it to me anyway... Master Kevin Luttrell Director The Martial Artist Foundation Springfield, Mo. Visit The Martial Artist Foundation Official Website at http://www.sporttkd.com or join The Martial Artist Foundation Yahoo Group for free and keep up on Sport Martial Arts events:= "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themartialartistfoundation/join"> --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:43:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Wrestling Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I;'ve had the experience of Getting to know Dan Severn, 3 time UFC Champion. He is a true Champion, unfortunately, what works for the BEAST won't work for me, trying to live 5 ft 9 in his 9 ft. world. daryl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:48:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Wrestling Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I forgot to mention in the last post, you will learn GREAT take downs, plummeling drills, hand work for "in tight" situations, balance, etc. in wrestling, but once you hit the mat, FORGet the rest, unless you enjoy having the back of your head punched. Wrestlers are taught to Go to their stomach to avoid being penned, so once you get that far, toss the "matwork" ideas. But the take downs are great. A barzegar is a great way to take someone to the mat and finish with a scarf hold. daryl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Ken Nessworthy" To: Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:36:43 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Sip Soo History Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anyone in the group know of any history on Sip Soo hyung and or a break down on what the applications are within the hyung. Regards, Ken --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] one inch boards and WTF To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >I do not like the fact that people like the >South Korean demo teams and almost all WTF-style TKD folks I have encountered >use the 1/2" thick and 1/4" thick boards for demos. They are waaaay to easy >to break. Why not use boards like the 1" think ones in order to truly >challenge the person doing the break? Personally I have only seen the thin boards used for the Tiny Tiger age group, e.g. under 6 years old or so. But if you say you've seen them used more broadly then I believe you... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] JI HAN JAE SEMINAR IN GEORGIA To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:14:16 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > If you haven't had a chance to train with Do Ju Nim and like to train > hard then I highly recommend that you attend Master McCarty's seminar > September 10 & 11, 2005. I will be there with a group of my students. Also... folks, if you ever get a chance to send more than two or three days studying with Gm Ji --DO NOT-- pass it up. You see that people say about the short seminars. Imagine what it is like to spend a week or weeks or months training with him! He is an amazing talent, an icon in Hapkido's history, and VERY approachable. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest