Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 03:05:15 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #169 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: History (Ray) 2. Re: History (Bruce Sims) 3. Re: Sip Soo Hyung (Bruce Sims) 4. Re: Hapkido History (Klaas barends) 5. cross training (rich hodder) 6. Master Hodder (Braeswood Martial Arts) 7. Board breaking (Art VanVranken) 8. RE: one inch boards and WTF (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 9. RE: one inch boards and WTF (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: History To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > People on this Net purport to practice Korean Martial Arts. Isn't that what > this forum is dedicated to? And one can reasonably expect that there is some > quality or another about the nature of martial traditions from Korea that > people here are enamoured with that they do not find with martial traditions > in other cultures. I think the view stated above, no doubt your personal view, is what separates you, Bruce, from the rest of us mere mortals. :) My guess is that many (most?) of those here ended up in the KMAs because we just fell into it. The nearest school to us was a KMA school, or our we had a friend already studying a KMA so we joined in, or it was somehow more convenient for us than attending a Japanese or Chinese or ?? school. Or perhaps we saw a Taekwondo match on TV that impressed us. Or perhaps we were in the military and Hapkido or ?? was being taught. But I seriously doubt many (non-Korean) people took up or continued in a KMA because there was something that enamoured them about the Korean culture or Korean martial traditions. Admittedly it took me perhaps 15 or 20 years in the KMAs before I worried much about learning more, much more, about the Korean culture or KMA histories. If my Korean instructors told us in class that the art we were studying was 2,000 year old, that was just fine w/me. I just wanted to get a workout and learn another kick or throw or ??? and could have cared less about how old the art was or what Korean arts did (did not) precede it. I think a great many folks are like that. It can take a long long while before people are interested in learning more than kicks and punches and throws. My point... those less interested in the fine historical and cultural points should give Bruce some slack -AND- Bruce should give a more slack and understanding to the folks that don't (yet?) possess a deep desire to learn and be everything Korean. imho Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:24:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: History Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Kevin: Thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail. Your comment may have singled out the one bit upon which much of the rancor that comes up on these Nets pivots. "......I think the answer is very simple, My responsibliity to uphold standards and I would be accountable to those people who I choose to be accountable to. I am accountable to those people by choice. My personal study leads me to a very strong opinion of what martial arts should be for Me. But who am I to say what martial arts should be to YOU....." I understand that OTHER people may not take the step I am going to identify but "I" see it as part and parcel of making the decision to follow the KMA Path. I believe that following the Path requires us to subscribe to and to propagate an Ethic not unlike the idea of playing Baseball or Footbal requires that the participants show "sportsmanship". In the case of the KMA I think that Ethic is defined by such things as shaped the Korean culture including Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism and Shamanism. I am NOT saying that a person must subscribe to these groups or belief systems. What I am saying is that the natural tendency to employ the well-known American Ethic of "I-above-We" does not have a place in traditional Korean arts. In this way I don't get to choose "who" I am accountable to since the Human Being standing in front of me is only a momentary representative of the larger Ethic. I would be required to submit to or defer to that Ethic whether I had a warm body in front of me or not. As I say, I am quite sure that this Ethic is the source of no small aggravation in the MA community because not everybody ---- especially Westerners--- deals well with submitting to a will greater than their own. In order to make it palatable even the very best must seem to add a drop or two of Religiousity to make the idea go down a bit easier. Nothing like a little heaven and hell to help a person relax their death-grip on the needs of the Ego, yes? At any rate I understand what you are saying about selecting individuals for whom you have respect and accepting their authority to hold you accoutable as your selected method. Honestly its better than a lot of other systems I have heard of so it can't be all bad, right? FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:27:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Sip Soo Hyung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ken: ".....Does anyone in the group know of any history on Sip Soo hyung and or a break down on what the applications are within the hyung....." I thought this was handled on the WARRIOR-SCHOLAR Net. Have you checked with Master McCarthy? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Klaas barends Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:36:38 +0900 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido History Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think, or I think I know, that a lot of the first and second generation students brought in their own legacy. Most of them already had some or a lot of martial arts experience. Choi's first student in Korea already studied yudo before. The early students already had their own legacy, but decided to 'team up' with the hapkido movement. Some of them didn't and started their own styles, placing more emphasize on their own legacy. That what Choi originally taught is NOT what we call hapkido these days. Hapkido is a mix of that what Choi taught and that what was added later. Bruce posted before how Choi's knowledge of Daito Ryu was maybe somewhat limited to that what the Japanese seemed appropriate to teach to others. You see this with Chinese masters as well. Hapkido development was and is an ongoing proces. I have never met master Choi, so I certainly didn't practice with him. Neither have I ever seen video material of him. So I simply don't know how good he was, or even what it was he was teaching. And to be honest, I am not very interested in it either. At least not from a practicing point of view, from an historical point of view I would like to know more. Is what Ji Han Jae is teaching these days the same as what he learned back in the fifties? Is what Han Bong Soo is teaching these days the same as what he learned? Is what Kwang Myung Sik is teaching these days the same as what he learned? etc. etc. Is that what you are teaching/practicing these the same as what you learned? -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ Dutch HKD Federation http://www.sangmookwan.com/ SangMooKwan International Training Center Korea --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "rich hodder" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:39:18 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] cross training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think if my initials were JC, I would do some cross training too. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:16:55 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Hodder Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wanted to publicly thank Master Hodder and all of his students for allowing me to train with them over the last few weeks. There has been a couple of posts here about high ranking black belts who still get on the floor everyday and teach class. I would like to add Master Hodder to that list. He is the only 8th dan I know of in the Houston area who is on the floor with his students everyday. He teaches all the TKD classes and is available for added knowledge during the HKD classes. There are schools that claim to be run by 8th dans and up all over Houston but their students say they never teach or come out of the office. I am hopeful Master Hodder's students appreciate the fountain of knowledge that has moved to Texas for them. I know I am thankful for it and will take advantage of it as long as I can. I am a HKD player or try to be, and being in a TKD class is like starting over... VERY COOL! If you are lucky enough to have an instructor with the knowledge and skill of an 8th dan who has been training for 40+ years, I hope you appreciate it an do not take for granted that it will always be there. Kat --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:23:53 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Art VanVranken" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Board breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Our school uses 3/4" board, probably more like 5/8" . When I first started going to this school they were using 5/4 boards which measured in excess of 1". Definitely a challange. I think our Master went to these for cost only. Also in my previous school they used the split patio blocks for the black belt. They seemed easy. When I started breaking a whole patio block it was a world of difference. We found the colored blocks, say red and green were more difficult to break than the natural gray. I dont know why!!! [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of IMSTP.gif] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type Image/jpeg which had a name of BackGrnd.jpg] --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:39:38 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: one inch boards and WTF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: Personally I have only seen the thin boards used for the Tiny Tiger age group, e.g. under 6 years old or so. But if you say you've seen them used more broadly then I believe you... Now, that I can understand. For that age group, sure. I have seen one company, if I recall correctly, advertising these 1/4" inch boards as "great for demonstrations" because of the loud "snap" they emit when broken. Plus instead of breaking into 2 halves, they break into many pieces so it looks like the person doing the break has tremendous destructive power. I'm sure to "WOW the crowd" is why they were even invented. James Morgan www.gtkda.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:39:40 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: one inch boards and WTF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dave Weller wrote: Have a great photo of one of our senior instructors > breaking 4 with a Lung Punch (sort of like an uppercut from the hip, > with the target area the floating ribs, solar plexus etc. For those not > familiar with the term). No spacers. Yes, MOST impressive. Wow. I'd like to see that picture just to stash away in my miscellaneous pics of martial arts action.. I'll be the first to tell you that I have attemped more than a few breaks where spacers were involved and did NOT make the break all the way through. You STILL have to have complete follow-through as well as focus and lots of speed. That's why I still consider myself a student still learning from my mistakes....:) James Morgan www.gtkda.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest