Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:20:29 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #170 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: one inch boards and WTF (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 2. Re: one inch boards and WTF (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 3. Re: Re: The full system (Nathan Miller) 4. Re: one inch boards and WTF (Chris and Cindy) 5. Re: Hold on to your hats....... (Bruce Sims) 6. Re: Hapkido influences (SPIVEY JR) 7. World titles are a family affair (Ray) 8. RE: RE: [The_Dojang] hapkido central (dropshadow) 9. not wanting to stir the pot (rich hodder) 10. Phys Ed (Ray) 11. Re: Re: History (jakskru) 12. TKD & Hapkido (Dugy) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:53:30 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: one inch boards and WTF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Morgan, Not ALL WTFer's use small boards. We've never broken anything but 1" (3/4 actually, the lumber yards just call it 1") lumber in demonstrations.. Have a great photo of one of our senior instructors breaking 4 with a Lung Punch (sort of like an uppercut from the hip, with the target area the floating ribs, solar plexus etc. For those not familiar with the term). No spacers. I try to imagine the damage that would inflict on the human rib cage... ouch! I have seen the skinny-mini boards used recently at belt promotions for the little tykes. Nothing wrong with that. If they start using them for us oldsters, I reckon I'll pack my own, pardner! Although we have never used spacers, I'd not be above trying it, with my teachers permission, just to see how it feels and looks. ____________________________________ same here on the boards. we use 1" (3/4") boards for yellow belts and up. white belts get whatever 1/2". wee lil'uns get the "skinny mini's" as they were called (love that) to build their wee egos. on brick breaks, i've done with and without spacers. i only have one student breaking bricks yet and he's used spacers with me at demo. will soon have him doing them back to back as i'm certain he has the skill/ability. spacers are great to get the confidence going as well as crowd please. we dont require brick breaking for gups, but do require board breaking. y'know, one of those demo videos jye sent was great but had me thinking law suit all the way through it. all the boards flying into the crowd...lol...you could put an eye out with those things ;) take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:59:11 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: one inch boards and WTF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >I do not like the fact that people like the >South Korean demo teams and almost all WTF-style TKD folks I have encountered >use the 1/2" thick and 1/4" thick boards for demos. They are waaaay to easy >to break. Why not use boards like the 1" think ones in order to truly >challenge the person doing the break? Personally I have only seen the thin boards used for the Tiny Tiger age group, e.g. under 6 years old or so. But if you say you've seen them used more broadly then I believe you... __________________________________ i've got their back on that one, ray. i've seen lots of clips out there with weenie boards. yes, they look spectacular for demo with little pieces flying everywhere. now, i wouldnt say that almost all wtf style folks i've encountered use them, but i have seen quite a bit of footage of adult demo teams doing all sorts of fun and fancy techniques with 'em. i think they break if you breathe on them so the board holders have to be careful ;) take care, mel Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:57:35 -0500 From: Nathan Miller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: The full system Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As I recall, Lee didn't study long enough to learn some of the later material, or so the story goes. Nathan On 4/21/05, Jye nigma wrote: > not sure why this way was but William cheung is one who knows the whole system; the 3 forms plus a hidden form something like that. > > Jye > > > Beungood8@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/20/2005 2:27:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > Bruce Lee probably would have learned ground grappling, but by the same > token Bruce Lee is not an authority in Chinese Martial Arts. He was not > purposely taught the full Wing Chun system. Eddie Urbistondo > > Why was this? Who WAS taught the full system? > > JAck > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 07:27:23 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Chris and Cindy Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: one inch boards and WTF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have seen this too. In fact, I have been seeing narrow boards used a lot over the past few years. What I mean is, boards that are cut rectangular instead of square -- 4 X 12 X 1. I have always broken 12 X 12 X 1 and it looks as if the more narrow the board is the easier it would break. Actually, I have recently (past couple of years) started using 2" thick boards instead. -Chris > >I do not like the fact that people like the > >South Korean demo teams and almost all WTF-style TKD folks I have > encountered > >use the 1/2" thick and 1/4" thick boards for demos. They are waaaay to easy > >to break. Why not use boards like the 1" think ones in order to truly > >challenge the person doing the break? > >Personally I have only seen the thin boards used for the Tiny Tiger age >group, e.g. under 6 years old or so. But if you say you've seen them used >more broadly then I believe you... --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 05:38:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hold on to your hats....... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: ".....My point... those less interested in the fine historical and cultural points should give Bruce some slack -AND- Bruce should give a more slack and understanding to the folks that don't (yet?) possess a deep desire to learn and be everything Korean....." As I mentioned to Kevin in my response to his post I believe that this is the very pivotal point between to distinct groups of KMA practitioners. I agree that there are those who "happened into" KMA if only because it was what was available or perhaps the most conveniently available activity in which they were interested. I also agree that delving deeply into the cultural underpinnings is best characterized as an "acquired taste" and not everyone is going to be interested in that sort of effort. The only thing that I see that remains unresolved is reconciling the relationship between these two groups and seems to be a bit harder than anyone might give it credit. On the one side the people who are practicing the KMA because it is what is available certainly are free NOT to delve any deeper than they care to. Its a simple matter of "freedon-of-choice". On the other side a person such as myself is propelled by the need to maintain a knowledge-base and an appreciation for the culture behind the art such that it does not reduce to little more than a Phys ED class. As always I use American sports as a model for this in that I know that there are people who are reading this who attend sports events and enjoy the action on the field. There are also people who likewise attend events, enjoy the action on the field and can quote chapter and verse regarding statistics, personalities, backgrounds and historical events. For myself, I see those "Phys Ed-minded" people as a potential source of the very necessary material and view that helps keep the KMA current with recent developments. I see the "researchers" as overseeing that nothing is disposed of to readily. This is about as far as I can reconcile these two groups to date. Comments? Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 07:31:33 -0700 (PDT) From: SPIVEY JR To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido influences Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Bruce, just to continue this interesting discussion... "So for you the essence of Hapkido would certainly be governed by Choi Yong Sul because he is the only source recognized within your definition, yes? In my case I am inclusive of all Korean martial traditions, but exclusive of all non-Korean traditions (Karate, Judo, Aikido) as well as "sport traditions" such as Taekwondo. I am not yet sure where Taek Kyon fits in but nobody said I had all the answers." For what it's worth, which ain't much, I would not limit the definition of Hapkido to the "pure" descendants of Choi. I'd suggest that he is the trunk of the tree of the art, but that the entire Ji Han Jae branch is completely valid and is today the main body of the art worldwide. There are pretty few kwans that do not fall under Ji's sphere of influence, wouldn't you agree? And although I am a member of one that does not, I certainly do not discount the value of Ji's art, nor his contributions to the overall art. I don't think anybody can seriously dispute his contributions. "Within the context of defining Hapkido in the larger sense of Korean martial tradition in toto Choi Yong Sul is one more contribution. As the most recent contribution his is the most influential to be sure! And with the advent of media and the Internet he has become one of the best known if not THE best known contribution. But he is not the ONLY contribution and I would not say that his material constitutes the "essence" of the Hapkido arts." Yeah, I'd have to agree with you here, and not even grudgingly. Maybe it comes down to this: The small group of kwans / masters who have remained faithful to Choi's teachings alone, such as masters Rim Jong Bae and Lim Hyun Soo, constitute a separate tradition, but the entire Ji Han Jae tradition is equally valid as a true component of modern Hapkido? I don't really know, I'm just kinda thinking out loud... Anyway, thanks for the ongoing discussion... this is good stuff. Regards, Howard Best --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 07:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] World titles are a family affair Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net World titles are a family affair By Charean Williams Star-Telegram Staff Writer Thu, Apr. 21, 2005 Steven, Mark and Diana Lopez are a first. The First Family of Taekwondo, as the Sugar Land residents are known, recently won the 2005 World Taekwondo Championships. It is believed to be the first time in sports history that three siblings have been crowned world champions, according to the U.S. Olympic Committee. The three are coached by their eldest brother, Jean, who won a silver medal at the 1995 world championships. "Being able to see our dream realized, it's amazing," Jean Lopez said in a conference call Wednesday. "It's surreal. We couldn't believe it." Steven, a two-time Olympic gold medalist, won his third consecutive world championship. His victory in the men's welterweight division solidified the 26-year-old as one of the best ever in the sport. Diana, 21, and Mark, 22, won their world championships two days after their older brother in Madrid, Spain. Diana defeated Korea's Sae-Rom Kim in the final of the women's featherweight division, and Mark beat Korea's Myong-Seob Song for the men's featherweight crown. "I didn't cry for my win, but I cried when my sister won and then when my brother was able to do it back-to-back," Steven said. "I saw history being made right before my very eyes." The family is hoping their recent triumphs serve as a prelude for the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. Diana finished second at the 2004 U.S. Olympic Team Trials and third at the 2000 U.S. Olympic Team Trials. Mark finished third in the 2000 and 2004 U.S. Olympic Team Trials. (In 2004, he was forced to compete in Steven's Olympic welterweight division.) Mark and Diana were in the stands with their father, Julio, when Steven won his gold medal last summer in Athens. "That's the plan," Steven said of the family winning three Olympic gold medals in 2008. "After winning the 2000 Olympic gold medal, my dream was not only to make the Olympic team again in 2004, but make it with my with my brother or my sister and have my brother as my Olympic coach. But it went only as far as having my brother there as Olympic coach. It's one thing to come back and tell them about my experience; it's another thing to actually experience it with them. "As long as we stay on the right path, stay committed, stay motivated, stay disciplined and have our goal and dream in focus, I think all of us can make the Olympic team in 2008 and, hopefully, be as successful as we were at these World Championships." --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:53:50 -0500 From: dropshadow To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: RE: [The_Dojang] hapkido central Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I would agree with you on this - but it's my understanding that Chinese > characters are used for words that are in some way special. Aikido > would have had a very specific meaning and my guess is that you would > see the Kanji used in Japanese newspapers and books. I suspect the same > would have been true for Korean newspapers or written media. chinese characters were used extensively in the past in both korean and japanese. both korean and japanese have moved away from this recently, especially korean, with phonetic alphabets. in s.korea, generally, the more educated a person is, the more likely he or she will be able to read chinese script. in japan, kanji is lacking, so chinese characters are still used extensively. today, the number of people who can read chinese in s.korea is dropping rapidly because the korean phonetic alphabet is actually very simple to learn and use. there is no special meaning when encountering chinese script in japanese or korean - it is generally just the level of education of the author, or just a lack in kanji in the case of japanese. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "rich hodder" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:13:56 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] not wanting to stir the pot Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hapkidoin....where does Yahwara fit into the scheme of things Hapkido wise? Also, what about Chin-Na. just looking for some insight. Rich --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:40:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Phys Ed Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can agree that many students are primarily looking for a workout, that was me 35 years ago. Perhaps as many or more are looking for effective self-defense or effective fighting techniques. We might term these folks 'realists'. The source of a body of effective technique matters not to them, all that matters is that it works. It is this realist that the KMA purist may take issue with. One says, hey wait, that isn't a Korean technique! The other retorts, who gives a s*#t, it works! Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: History Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:18:47 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net well put, ray...very inciteful ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray" To: Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: History > > People on this Net purport to practice Korean Martial Arts. Isn't that what > > this forum is dedicated to? And one can reasonably expect that there is some > > quality or another about the nature of martial traditions from Korea that > > people here are enamoured with that they do not find with martial traditions > > in other cultures. > > I think the view stated above, no doubt your personal view, is what > separates you, Bruce, from the rest of us mere mortals. :) > > My guess is that many (most?) of those here ended up in the KMAs because we > just fell into it. The nearest school to us was a KMA school, or our we > had a friend already studying a KMA so we joined in, or it was somehow more > convenient for us than attending a Japanese or Chinese or ?? school. Or > perhaps we saw a Taekwondo match on TV that impressed us. Or perhaps we > were in the military and Hapkido or ?? was being taught. But I seriously > doubt many (non-Korean) people took up or continued in a KMA because there > was something that enamoured them about the Korean culture or Korean martial > traditions. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Dugy" To: Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:45:23 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD & Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have read a little on hapkido and would like to know more about it/. I understand it is a very good self defense, am I right? If you can send me some links, info, book source, etc, that would be great. I am still studying TKD and enjoy it..the exercise involved is inspiring and the techniques I am learning is giving me self confidence... Do you agree that while learning TKD I can learn HApkido, or do you suggest after TKD? Thank you all. DougM - Yellow Belt --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest