Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:42:21 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #175 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Wrestler (George Peters) 2. RE; Frank Clay on techniques (George Peters) 3. RE: Mr Morgan on breaking (George Peters) 4. Sells (Frank Clay) 5. Thomas (Frank Clay) 6. 8th Dahn Testing (Kevin Luttrell) 7. Rick Love (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 8. Austin Seminar (Lawren Hasten) 9. TSD Master Title and Testing Panels (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 10. Re: Rick Love (Ray) 11. RE: George and Grandmaster Byrne on breaking (Denise) 12. Thanks for great seminar! (Cynthia Moe) 13. Sip Soo (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 14. Re: Boards and TKD Demonstrations - JOHN (ChosunBBA@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:59:31 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Wrestler Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir, I do not think wrestler, rather fighter(kinda like shoot fighting?) as I have seen photos of him cleaning a guys' clock with a back kick. I know he has fought there many times(and won). He was a member of the org I belong to until he started his own recently. This is a big guy, My head comes to his shoulder(I'm 6ft) and he was about 275 when I met him and at that height he looked pretty lean. Respectfully, George --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 00:14:39 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE; Frank Clay on techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir, In the org I belong to, one is obligated to transfer all knowledge as it was taught, it is one of the most sacred tasks of an instructor. Granted, some techniques may work better for some folks than others, and it is the responsibility of the practictioner to adapt the use of technique(s), or refrain from techniques that don't work for your body type. I am of a very stocky(square) build, and while I can DO a 360 jump back wheel kick, it certainly is not an effective technique for me, yet I have learned it and teach it to all, and sure enough there is always the little fellow with the "Bruce Lee" build that can tear the place up with this kick. The sheer diversity of techniques and their adaptability is one of the beauties of TSD, making it an effective art for anyone. Respectfully, George --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 00:27:32 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Mr Morgan on breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir, While the conditioning may be of importance, when speaking with Master Byrne, he stressed "basic technique". He told me that any time he had a problem with his progress in breaking , he would go back and practice "basic technique". A suprising and wonderful thing from a man of his stature and strength. As the years have gone by, his words have echoed back at me more than once when I have tried to make up for technique with strength and not done as well as I had wished. Strength is nice, technique is awesome! Respectfully, George --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 06:14:53 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sells Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dana/Kim, Do you really think that a Korean national who sees her maybe once a year is the one recommending her for promotion? That is naiveté. Ed Sell is the one who she is immediately responsible to and I sincerely doubt that Master Park, Hae Man is going say you know what, I think you should test. You ever look at the big Taekwondo Times article that was about them? You notice how in that article her time in grade got reduced over the years? It seems to me that time in grade should get longer. But then again, this is purely my opinion. I have seen Them both in person and while I don't have much to say about Master Sell's technique I really don't think her technique is up to an 8th dan. But like I said, this is purely my opinion and since she outranks me, I supposed my opinion is somewhat null and void in the matter. I personally have issues with any organization that is family run. Look at the Moo Duk Kwan. There are people who are very senior to the new "grandmaster" and yet he is now the head. For the record, I also, and we've had this discussion before, have serious issues with the mistranslation of kwanjangnim. People who propagate the grandmaster title are contributing to a greater problem. Namely they are capitalizing on the general ignorance of the American people. And the only issue I have with the Sell's is their use of professor in their ranking system. Unless you have academic credentials you cannot be called a professor. It is misleading. I know where they got the idea from but those people such as Kano WERE professors. Frank --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 06:26:46 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Thomas Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thomas, I never said that Ed Sell would conduct her test. But he can recommend her for it. When I was coming up through the ranks our curriculum was a little more challenging than doing a couple of poomse, kyuk pa and kyorugi. Anyone can break and do forms. But it takes time to mature, kind of like wine. I think that two things have happened here. She has advanced extremely rapidly and this advance is likely to be financially motivated. As she goes up in rank she is in theory worth more to the USCDKA. When we came up we were very closely examined. Sometimes in minute detail by our teachers and then our head teacher would preside over the test. Maybe I'm just longing for the pre-sport days. If you look at the Kukkiwon text book, kukki TKD is a great martial art and yet if you look at actual practice, it leaves a lot to be desired many times. To give you an idea, I have a good friend who has been training longer than she and Ed Sell have been married (remember she was student of his according to his writings and that is where they met [something I have an ethical issue with but that is another story]). This gentleman will be testing for his 5th Dan this year. He has been eligible for longer than I have known him but has never elected to take the exam because he was holding true to what his deceased teacher had taught him. That is worthy of respect to me. Now back to my other comment... I personally have serious issues with teachers dating students. We as a culture have the same issue in more professional environments such as universities and colleges. So why is ok here? We are supposed to be teaching someone a way of life and the student teacher relationship should not be compromised or clouded by emotions. Once again, maybe I'm just old fashioned. Frank --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 06:50:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Luttrell To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 8th Dahn Testing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello again, It is Park, Hae Man that pretests Mrs. Sell and also does the reccomending to the board. The Sell's and a few of the Sr. Master instructors leave on the 11th of May to travel and the test is schedule for the 19th of May. I dont believe that there can be any nepotism involved, I just wanted to congratulate her on her accomplishments. I cant believe some people's hearts are so dark that they have to question every single thing. Why can't we all just share in the joy that an event of this magnitude brings to a person. If people are so worried about what a rank stands for, why dont they demostrate it in the honor of their word and action. Instead of worrying about other peoples word and action. The only control you have over the standard of rank is the honor contained in your own words and actions. IF you just set around complaining of how everyone elses rank is not authentic, or they dont earn it honorably, Does it really achieve the goal of upholding a higher standard? We talk so much about demonstrating our techniques and time spent training on the mat is what makes our physical techniques work. The same thing goes with honor. Master Kevin Luttrell Director The Martial Artist Foundation Springfield, Mo. Visit The Martial Artist Foundation Official Website at http://www.sporttkd.com or join The Martial Artist Foundation Yahoo Group for free and keep up on Sport Martial Arts events:= "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themartialartistfoundation/join"> --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:02:13 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Rick Love Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >I'll give you one guess who does make that claim. Here's your hint. Claims he wrestled under the name Rick Love. Was it Mankind? --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:14:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Lawren Hasten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Austin Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'd like to thank Master West and his assistants for conducting a great seminar this past Saturday in Austin, TX. Master Thomas did a fantastic job organizing the event; thank you and your wife, Chad, and your students. The venue was excellent and those of us from Master Hodder's school who tried to sink a few basketballs after lunch now realize why we are in Martial Arts. The nice thing about a good seminar is that you take it with you, ie. bruises and sore muscles for days. I know Tuan Nguyen will never forget it....or maybe he still doesn't remember it....all the way back to Houston he kept asking "can I have fries with that?" I can't wait to see the video. I have a great deal of respect for all those who worked hard on the mat, and thank you in particular to my partners. Thank you Master West for reminding us all that it's not the rank that matters; it's going to the next class, and training. It was great to see you all again and I look forward to the next time. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:16:07 -0500 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] TSD Master Title and Testing Panels Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere, It would perhaps make things simpler if title and rank was attached. But its our Technical Advisory Committee, Board of Directors and KJN that make the decision. The traditionalist that has a professional career and does not teach to generate income is a description of myself and many other Masters in our organization. Again, the studio requirement is KJN's philosophy that all Masters should be passing the art on. I put the number in because many organizations have similar requirements, but require a much larger number of students. I even go further. Just Saturday at a regional clinic I told a group of new cho dans that it is the responsibility of all black belts to represent our art well and to pass it on to the future. I have done testing both ways as well. It is not that instructors are not capable of making promotions. I see the regional testing offering a couple of benefits. There are always stronger and weaker schools and instructors. Regional testing panels tend to ensure more consistent standards and more consistent minimum standards across the curriculum and studios. Regional testing tends to maintain consistency in technique. I also believe that regional testing panels increase organizational cohesiveness. Not saying it is the be all and end all, just that it does have some benefits both individually and organizationally. Of course it has some costs as well. Danny <<<<<<<>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rick Love To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:12:37 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >I'll give you one guess who does make that claim. Here's your hint. > Claims > he wrestled under the name Rick Love. > > Was it Mankind? You're thinking of Dude Love... aka Cactus Jack aka Mankind aka Michael Foley from Bloomington, IN. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Denise" To: Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:27:57 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: George and Grandmaster Byrne on breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net George- Thanks for making that point. My perspective is that, "It's NOT about the break. It's about the presentation and execution of good technique." However, when demonstrating for the "general" public, I've no problem with spacers, smaller boards, etc. Then, it usually IS about the break. The crowd -- generally -- appreciates the "WOW" factor. We save the serious challenges of good technique for the dojang. The question for me is, "What's your point?" If it's entertainment, then entertain away! That doesn't preclude challenging oneself, but for a lot of people, just being out there on the stage is a significant challenge. We "use" public demonstrations as an opportunity for students to grow in a multitude of ways. They're smart enough (at least if I've done my job as their teacher) to know the difference between a 3-board spaced and un-spaced break. As for Grandmaster Byrne, IMHO the man is incredible. I've never trained with him, but have attended several events where he was a guest. He is absolutely unassuming in his attitude, even though his physical stature and martial arts ability are quite "assuming!" His graciousness and humility surpass his technique. Just my nickel . . . Denise George said . . . " While the conditioning may be of importance, when speaking with Master Byrne, he stressed "basic technique". He told me that any time he had a problem with his progress in breaking , he would go back and practice "basic technique". A surprising and wonderful thing from a man of his stature and strength. As the years have gone by, his words have echoed back at me more than once when I have tried to make up for technique with strength and not done as well as I had wished. Strength is nice, technique is awesome!" --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Cynthia Moe" To: Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:35:02 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Thanks for great seminar! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I want to thank Grandmaster Rudy Timmerman and his associates for another wonderful seminar at DeWitt Martial Arts! We had a full dojang (and then some) as we worked on forms, technique, weapons and Nohk Bub, and it was great to have masters bring their students from different parts of the U.S. and Canada to join us. Some of the concepts we focused on made the techniques much more powerful and effective. SaJaNim, it was so good to see you again, and I look forward to coming to the Sault this summer to join you for "boot camp." Please pass our thanks on to Christopher, Mrs. Watson and your young assistants also. The high quality of their training is obvious when they demonstrate the knowledge you are passing on to them. See you in June, sir! Cindy Moe Cynthia Moe UOP Online Faculty cynmoe@email.uophx.edu --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:19:21 -0500 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Sip Soo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ken, If you still need it, I can give you some info on Sip Soo. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, I am just catching up this morning. Danny Dunn - --__--__-- Message: 14 From: ChosunBBA@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:22:10 EDT Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Boards and TKD Demonstrations - JOHN To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 4/24/2005 7:16:28 PM Central Standard Time, Johnjfitzg@aol.com writes: have approximately 6 hours of video from “the 1st World Muya Championship” in 2003. John, Is this similar to the Hanmadang event which includes, breaking (tiles and boards), synchronized forms & self-defense? I have some of those videos, along withthe Korean Tiger Team videos, which are very humbling to watch. Is this Muya championship the same type of event? JP --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest