Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 03:05:29 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #177 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Dog meat's new tale (Ray) 2. Re: Re: Trying this again.... (Ray) 3. Re: Retention (Bruce Sims) 4. from an email... (Jye nigma) 5. Moo Duk Kwan (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 6. USOC Reinforces Right to Govern Olympic Sports in U.S. (Ray) 7. Re: Moo Duk Kwan (Ray) 8. Brainerd NKMAA seminar (Rudy Timmerman) 9. Re: Teaching as you were taught (Robert Frankovich) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Dog meat's new tale Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dog meat's new tale CBC News April 25, 2005 Yoav Cerralbo The first thing that struck me walking through Moran Market in southern Seoul was how they kept animals for the slaughter. Yellow-coloured dogs were lying side-by-side without any room to move or stretch. Dogs, chickens, goats, turkeys and ducks where lined up in cages, ready for the next shopper searching for fresh meat. The smells were varied - on the one side it smelled like Old MacDonald's farm, while on the other side it smelled like barbecued meat. I didn't witness any active cruelty being inflicted on the animals. The shopkeepers had obviously had bad experiences with foreigners and it was made clear to me that I was not welcome. The story is that dogs are hung from the bars of their cages and when nearly dead are taken down to have their fur blowtorched off - none of which I've seen. While I was taking pictures, a butcher came running toward me waving a blade about the size of my forearm yelling for me to stop and leave. Luckily, I spoke enough Korean to calm him down and then offered him a smoke to smooth things over. Boshin-tang (dog meat soup) served with rice and vegetables. On the other side of the market where it smells like a tailgate party, a foreigner was eating boshin-tang (body preserving stew), or dog meat soup. "How is the soup?" I asked. "The texture is almost like mutton. It has a fatty taste and is very chewy. I eat it about once a week," said the foreigner. The brutality of dogs being slaughtered is a tale many times told, but recently, the age-old dispute over one of South Korea's traditional dishes has resurfaced after a government plan to impose strict regulations on the processing and selling of dog meat. The measures would prohibit any brutal slaughter of dogs and also sets hygiene guidelines on the processing and sale of gae gogi (dog meat). The new measures brought an immediate response from animal rights activists and people who oppose the practice. They say that the government's plan won't bring the trade under control but instead will officially legalize the centuries-old practice. Butcher preparing duck along side dog meat. "Setting up these standards will only legalize this cruel practice," said the chairwoman of the Korean Animal Protection Society, Kum Sun-nam. "This will not do the animals any favour. Dog-meat butchers will feel vindicated. There is also a fear that more people will eat dog now that there are higher hygiene laws." "This is just the government's way to control animal groups," added Kum. The major complaint from KAPS and other animal rights groups is the brutal methods by which many dogs are killed in South Korea. Dog-meat lovers believe that by beating, strangling or boiling live dogs they will give the meat a better taste and increase its medicinal value - "a value that has not been proven by medical science," said Kum. Proponents of the age-old dish see it differently. They argue that dog food has many medicinal values such as beefing up men's virility and improving women's skin. "Anyone can tell you that eating dog meat is very healthy," said Park Gye-dong while enjoying a bowl of boshin-tang with his friends, "The Chinese wrote about its healing powers 3,000 years ago in their medical texts, and even now doctors tell patients who are recuperating from operations to eat dog meat in order to recover quickly. I would eat it more often but it's a little expensive." Sitting with Park was Kim Dong-soo who added, "Sometimes we become a little obsessed with the feelings of Westerners who try to lecture us on values and regard others as barbarians. Who are they to lecture us? We have 5,000 years of history, and dog eating is part of our culture." A tradition that Kum hopes will die out soon before a negative lesson is passed on to Korean children, who see dogs as pets and not a food source. "If children think that eating pets is OK, who knows what kind of cruel things they will do to animals," said Kum. "It also harms the younger generation because the world sees Koreans with a tainted image. This is not a good tradition to pass on to our children." But Dr. Yong-Geun Ann, who teaches in the food nutrition department at Chungcheong College and has written books on the subject, believes that Koreans should not feel ashamed because of the misguided views of others. "The resumption of the controversy over the edibility of dog meat is due to the federal government's tepid attitude. The government should allow the slaughter and consumption of dog by law. Regrettably, the federal government hasn't made any decision on it up to now. "It's due to the fact that the government is being pulled in opposing directions, with the animal rights activists on one side and the dog meat consumers on the other," said Ann who is also known as Dr. Dogmeat. The Korean government has been under severe criticism at home and abroad for disregarding what dogs have been subjected to before they are slaughtered. Since the current laws on animal protection and slaughtering don't include dogs as animals fit for human consumption, the processing of dog meat has gone underground with no official guidelines to guarantee hygiene and animal welfare. With about 6,000 restaurants in Korea and 10 per cent of the population eating any of the 350 different dog-meat dishes, the legal position doesn't matter - the industry is thriving without any serious attempt at control. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Trying this again.... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > 3.) I have "Taoist Lee" as the source for Ji's material, ... Since Gm Ji has asked me to mention this to the list in the past... Apparently in some places, or some people, have indicated that this Taoist Lee was a Monk. Gm Ji states that was not the case, he was not a monk. FWIW... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:30:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Retention Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear James: This probably gonna be a complete waste of time but I will take another stab at this FWIW. "......Is there any point at which there is a technique where you say "This is junk, just junk, and it doesn't work and it's not going to work and by teaching it to my students who might try to use it I am only going to get them hurt because they might try to defend themselves with it and they will get killed."....." Listen to the tenor of your question then tell me what sort of answer you are setting yourself up for. Haven't we been over this ground a few times? Isn't this the same old "art" versus "science" discussion come to visit us yet one more time? How about you, James? Have YOU run into this? What were the circumstances? How did you resolve it? DID you resolve it? How did you deal with your grief at discovering you had been deceived yet one more time and that you were looking at yet another change of activity? Did you tough it out and stay with it despite the fact that what you were doing was unpopular; Or at least not the "next big thing"? What were you looking for when you happened on to the activity that resulted in your disappointment? Have you figured out what it is going to take to finally satisfy your search? Thoughts? Comments? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:47:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] from an email... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, Friendly greetings from Germany. I am very interested in the prince and other Korean royals. I wonder whether you could communicate me any postal addresses of any of the Korean princes and princesses. That would be very nice. Thank you very much in anticipation. Best wishes Hermann Ganseforth h.ganseforth@web.de My address: Hermann Ganseforth Hauptstrasse 24 26906 DERSUm GERMANY __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:42:28 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Frank Said "...Look at the Moo Duk Kwan. There are people who are very senior senior to the new grandmaster and yet he is now the head." Kwan Jang Nim HC Hwang's Dan number is 509. Those members still active as martial artist that received a dan number in the Moo Duk Kwan lower than 509 like Master JJ Kim and a few others. Chose to leave the Moo Duk Kwan or were ask to leave by its founder. As a result they DID NOT receive legitimate rank promotions in the Moo Duk Kwan from its founder beyond what they had when they left. Dan number alone does not indicate rank or rank seniority. It simply means they earned Cho Dan at an earlier date. If the practitioner continues his training (Uninterrupted) and continues to advance, Dan Number and rank will be accurately indicated. If they stop training or leave the organization. Dan Bon will indicate their seniority in time not rank. For example: I hosted a Dan class last week-end. It was a 20 hour workout over two days. I invited dans from around the region in which I live. One Dan came to train, which I have known for about 25 years. He is a Cho Dan. Because soon after receiving his Cho Dan rank and a dan number he joined the Marines. He just recently returned to full time training. His dan number is lower than mine by about 4,000, but he is only a cho dan. Kwan Jang Nim issued the rank of 9th dan to HC Hwang Kwan Jang Nim. He is the ONLY person to ever receive that rank from the founder of Moo Duk Kwan. So, it is true that some early MDK members have a lower dan bon, but once they left the founder whom had issued them there rank. Who promoted them after that. If it was a ranking member of another legitimate organization OK. But in the Moo Duk Kwan, well I have issue with that. IMHO they only 9th dan ever promoted by the Moo Duk Kwan founder leaves him the position to be the head. JC --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] USOC Reinforces Right to Govern Olympic Sports in U.S. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net USOC Reinforces Right to Govern Olympic Sports in U.S. after U.S. District Court Decision in Ohio COLUMBUS, Ohio--An Ohio United States District Court denied a temporary restraining order on Wednesday in a suit brought by the Ohio Taekwondo Association (OTA) against USA Taekwondo (USAT) and the U.S. Olympic Committee (USOC). In its ruling, the Court found that "granting plaintiff's [OTA'S] request would throw the sport of Taekwondo into a state of disarray and would result in harm to Taekwondo athletes throughout the United States." OTA'S complaint sought to restrain USAT and the USOC from continuing with implementation of a remediation plan approved in February, 2004, by the United States Taekwondo Union (USTU), USAT's predecessor organization. That plan was approved on the eve of USTU's decertification as a national governing body by the USOC. The complaint also challenged the transfer of USTU's corporate situs from Ohio to Colorado and the change of USTU's corporate name to USAT. Further, the complaint sought to relieve OTA from exhausting its administrative remedies challenging the reorganization plan as required by the Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act (the "Act"). Both parties did not dispute that leading up to the decision to decertify USTU, it suffered from financial mismanagement and an inability to effectively govern taekwondo. In November, 2003, the USOC filed an internal, administrative complaint against USTU seeking to decertify it as the national governing body for taekwondo. At the same time the USOC was working with USTU to develop a remediation plan to solve USTU's financial and administrative problems. The USOC complaint was to be heard at a January 2004 USOC Executive Committee meeting, but instead of proceeding, the USTU entered into an agreement with the USOC that required the resignation of all USTU officers and the transfer of management of the organization to a five-member governance and management committee. The plan also called for a new chief executive officer, appointed by the USOC, to run the organization. The remediation plan was approved by the USTU Executive Committee and the USTU Board of Governors in February 2004. When the governance and management committee took over, it found that USTU was nearly one million dollars in debt and that its current governance structure was inadequate to run the sport. The governance and management committee addressed USTU's financial crisis and then turned to reforming USTU's governance structure. The governance and management committee submitted its reorganization proposal to USTU members in May of 2004. The reorganization proposal setting forth a new governance structure was approved by USTU's Board of Governors at its November 2004 meeting. OTA's complaint stemmed from its assertion that it should have been afforded two seats on the governance and management committee and its disapproval of the new governance structure, which reduced the size of USTU's board from approximately 120 directors to 10. Under the new structure, three board directors would be independent and two would be elite level athletes. The new structure also eliminated control of the board by state associations, such as OTA. The Court found that one of the responsibilities of the USOC under the Act is "to provide swift resolution of conflicts and disputes involving...national governing bodies." The Court held that the USOC has jurisdiction under the Act to oversee Olympic amateur sports in the United States. The Court also found that the relief OTA sought would completely eliminate the USOC and the USAT's oversight of taekwondo, derailing the reorganization efforts and harming the sport's athletes. The Court also said that OTA must exhaust the administrative remedies available to it under the Act before seeking redress with the Court. After the Court's decision, USAT CEO Bob Gambardella, stated, "I am hopeful that with the Court's ruling the Ohio Taekwondo Association will support the USAT reorganization and put its efforts into creating the best opportunities possible for developing and supporting our athletes. It is time to put to an end the past bickering and squabbles that have existed in this sport, which in part resulted in the necessity for USOC intervention." Since USOC involvement and under the guidance of the government and management committee, taekwondo athletes have won a gold and silver medal at the Olympic Games in Athens, Greece, and three golds and a bronze at the World Championships last week in Madrid, Spain. The U.S. performance at the World Championships was the best ever for U.S. athletes at that event. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > "...Look at the Moo Duk Kwan. There are people who are very senior senior to > the new grandmaster and yet he is now the head." > > snip > snip > Dan number alone does not indicate rank or rank seniority. > snip Actually that was the original intent, but it got changed along the way as that became inconvenient. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:19:52 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Brainerd NKMAA seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cindy writes: > I want to thank Grandmaster Rudy Timmerman and his associates for > another > wonderful seminar at DeWitt Martial Arts! We had a full dojang (and > then > some) as we worked on forms, technique, weapons and Nohk Bub, and it > was great > to have masters bring their students from different parts of the U.S. > and > Canada to join us. Some of the concepts we focused on made the > techniques > much more powerful and effective. Hello Cindy: Success never just happens. Your Master had a lot to do with that, and his humble ways make me LOVE to come and train with you folks. It is rare to see a school with such discipline and etiquette these days. I am also glad that techniques now work better for you. I appreciate the nice comments about our young folks as well... positive encouragement like yours will help me mould them into better future Instructors:) Thanks for hosting another great seminar Master DeWitt, and thanks to the many folks who traveled such long distances to get on the mat with me. I had a blast. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:29:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Frankovich To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Teaching as you were taught Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Brent, I agree completely. It MUST become YOUR art or you haven't truly learned it. My take on the comments though could be that I'm obligated to teach all of the "technique" that I was taught as being part of the art. I've said this several times to student... IMHO, I think that many people misunderstand what Bruce Lee meant with "take what works and disreard the rest." That's the part that makes my Taekwondo, Aikido & GUmdo training MY art. But that doesn't mean I should teach only the material that I like or do well. If I do, my students will miss out on a portion of the material that they may do well. It would past on the art in an incomplete manner. Teaching the WHOLE curriculum is what I owe my instructors (and my students). Then the students can make the art their own. This has nothing to do with how I teach the matrial though. That needs to be modified as I understand more and how a student learns. I feel fortunate to have had 5 different instructors while I was coming through the gup ranks. It afforded me five different ways to hear how a technique was taught and now allows me to adjust how I say things so students can learn easier. Just my opinion. Rob > Message: 14 > Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:59:15 -0700 (PDT) > From: brent b > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Teaching as you were taught > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > George, > > I have a question - what happens when 'all the > knowledge as it was taught' changes. I've seen this > discussed on many forums and I do not fully > understand it. The knowledge that your instructor > has changes over time - period. This is a given. So > someone taught when the master first started out is > going to be taught completely differently than > someone who starts out 10 years later, which will be > different that the instruction someone receives 20 > years later. I have friends who believe that they > are being taught exactly what their instructors were > taught. It's not happening. Two people can be shown > the same technique the same day and 7 days later > teach it completely differently. > > I've taught twins and had them then teach the > technique to others. Completely different results. > > Martial arts are an individual experience. Once > you've done them long enough you may be doing a > style but if done correctly, it's your style. It may > look like someone elses, but it's yours. > > Brent Balfanz > From: "George Peters" > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 00:14:39 -0400 > > Good Sir, > In the org I belong to, one is obligated to transfer > all knowledge as > it was taught, it is one of the most sacred tasks of > an instructor. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest