Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 03:05:14 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #179 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Ruining an art (jakskru) 2. Re: Dog Meat... (Acaf6@aol.com) 3. RE: Dog meat's new tale (tim walker) 4. Re: Retention (Bruce Sims) 5. Re: Extreme Martial Arts (Craig Zeigler) 6. aging Masters (Rudy Timmerman) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Ruining an art Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:52:50 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net well put...thats what i said earlier---not everything works for everyone, but something that doesnt work well for you may work well for someone else...hence, you still must learn it if you plan to pass on the art correctly. in HKD we are given so many OPTIONS, yet only the ones that stick in your muscle memory will end up working in reality...and these are the techniques that work for YOU, you simply wont give much practice to something that doesnt function well for yourself. ----- Original Message ----- > work for me. Had I dropped every one that did not work for me, I would > not have been able to teach the material to those for whom it WILL > work. Just imagine, if I had a hundred or so techniques that do not > work for me, another Instructor has another fifty or so (and on and > on), our curriculum soon would be depleted to the point of being > useless to all but a few. > > I see no problem whatsoever teaching material that I absolutely hate > for myself, because I have found a simple solution to this. I treat > the material I have been passed as a whole unit... not pieces that can > be discarded at a whim. The art is not just about fighting and/or > self-defense, it also has a wonderful cultural part that makes it even > more appetizing to many practitioners. The art we --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Acaf6@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:36:48 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Dog Meat... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Out of lurk mode... Having just returned from a tour of duty at Camp Garry Owen, South Korea ( 6km or so from the DMZ and somewhat near Munsan ), I can speak to the Dog meat thread. Right outside my company area was a pretty large Dog farm. As we ran PT every morning we could see and smell all the dogs. On "harvest" days, you sure heard and smelt what was going on, as they "harvest" pretty plainly there. I can tell you that as a pet owner, I was pretty suprised to see the process. The farmers totally treat these animals as we would cattle here in the states. Not pets, but a product to be "harvested" and sold. After talking to several of our KATUSA's and some KMA instructors that I befriended, I was told that this is a normal and accepted thing up in the Northwestern areas of South Korea, and that the meat is a delicacy. In a ceremonial meal during the holidays, I ate some without knowing until I was told what it was that I consumed. If no one told me, I would have thought that it was beef. Oh well. If anyone wants to discuss this or the KMA training that I experienced while there, please feel free to contact me offline. Jim Mahan --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "tim walker" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Dog meat's new tale Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:38:30 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As someone who eats scrapple and chitlins, I don't see what all the fuss is about. timo "Primum non nocere" --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:54:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Retention Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jim: "......Getting back to your point, the segment of what I posted that you quoted has never happened to me, because I am not a teacher. I may never be . . . I got a very late start and in any event I'll probably be unlikely to hang any fancy certificates on my wall. I'm just looking for good instructors, in whatever form they appear. So I am a student, learning from teachers, and I would like to hear how different teachers have grappled with this issue. ....." I think you may have misinterpreted my line of reasoning so I will restate it in a bit different way and hopefully still catch the jist of what I wished to communicate. Your question seemed to focus on change. I interpreted your questions to ask "if something is very, very bad and and could be cause for a tragedy under what conditions would one change this?" My response is that you are pre-disposing your audience before you even hear their answers. 1.) There are no "bad techniques" in the martial arts. There ARE techniques that are not understood, and a helluva lot of people who don't know how to teach material. There are techniques that work better for some people than others. There are techniques for which the context has all but disappeared (IE: Sword techniques dealing with lasso-s). 2.) Why is the first choice elimination? Why isn't the first choice to delve more deeply into the art as it is? 3.) Who is it that makes the judgement as to whether a technique, skill, method or practice is "good", "successful" or "worthwhile". There is one last point and I think this comes from a place that takes exception to you posing the question with little or no experience in committing to a particular tradition. I am actually very sorry that you have bounced from practitioner to practitioner as I think that making a commitment to a single tradition and learning how to dedicate yourself to a particular practice ---warts and all-- would answer a lot of questions for you. I mention this because you are approaching this subject in terms of learning how other people have addressed these issues. What I am hearing is that you, yourself have not confronted these issues. Failing to have dealt with such issues in your own heart how can you possibly hope to appreciate any responses another person might make on the basis of their own experience? Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:10:50 -0400 From: Craig Zeigler To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Extreme Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree, it was full of showey garbage, but there were several parts of that I really enjoyed. Unfortunatly, much of this stuff is played up by the people covering it so it loses a good bit of its meaning. Again, you're right, it looks like it took place in a hotel lobby or some similar setting. Am I the only one who doesn't buy into all of that yelling? I looked at others who seem to do a lot of yelling, and if they put half the effort into their kicks that they did all of that unnecessary yelling, they'd have a decent kick. jakskru wrote: >yes, i saw it....it actually came out last year or the year before...for the >most part i found it to be interesting, but that "XMA" stuff looks like a >bunch of showy crap...gymnastics with some yelling and strikes, seems to be >impractical for reality...thats why the 16 yr. old kid got 4th place and the >other guy trying to "regain" his "sparring form" lost...did the show mention >what competition that was? looked like it took place in a hotel lobby. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Craig Zeigler" >To: >Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 2:50 PM >Subject: [The_Dojang] Extreme Martial Arts > > > > >>Yesterday on the discovery channel, I noticed a program called Extreme >>Martial Arts in which they were showing a lot of detail on several >> >> >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:38:40 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] aging Masters Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dusty writes: > some of our grandmasters get up in age, their time left with us to > help train and > teach is getting shorter and shorter. dont let all that experience and > wisdom pass you by.Grandmaster Rudy, Grandmaster JR West and all the > other > TRUE grandmasters of the arts, they are not getting any younger. they > have a > lot of experience in their minds and bodies to pass on to us, so if > you get > the chance, train with them before it is too late!!! Hello Dusty: I am glad that you enjoyed the seminar. After such a long ride, I would hate to think you wasted your time. I am not sure about JR, but I am a bad weed, so I think I'll be around for a while yet lol. You know what they say about bad weeds:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest