Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 16:51:14 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #193 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Lock and release... (Nathan Miller) 2. Mr. Clark and hyung (George Peters) 3. Black Belt (Rudy Timmerman) 4. Martial Arts in NK??? (Bob Banham) 5. Lock for self defense (J. R. West) 6. Re: Mr. Clark and hyung (Ray) 7. Colorado to the core (rich hodder) 8. Nikki's diary (Bob Banham) 9. Re: Lock and release... (jakskru) 10. Re: Nikki's diary (Ray) 11. RE: Mr. Clark and hyung (Rick Clark) 12. RE: Lock and release (julie) 13. Re: RE: Lock and release (Patrick Williams) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 23:29:04 -0500 From: Nathan Miller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Lock and release... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Howdy Brooke... > I am curious if anyone here has gotten someone into a > lock in a real situation (not sparring) and how and > when you let go of it? What happened when you let go? > If they had just before said they'd be compliant, > were they? > While I don't know if I will qualify it as a lock... I was approaching the door to a nameless giant discount-retailer store with my then-fiancee when a gentleman exited, followed by a shouting store employee. The gentleman in question looked over his shoulder and began walking faster; I noticed he was carrying an unbagged package. I stepped to my left, blocking his path, though we were still a few feet apart. He locked eyes with me and crouched slightly. Ever have one of those surreal moments when you know exactly what's about to happen? Yeah. One of those. He stutter stepped to the side, trying to get around me, so I grabbed his shirt with my left hand. The packagae he was holding swung up and hit me in the face, sending my glasses flying. My automatic instict was to punch back, so I did, once to the face, and then I grabbed his shirt with my other hand and put him on the ground, on his back, still holding his shirt. I realized immediately that this was a bad idea, and started looking for store security, but there was none, just a crowd of gawkers. I stood the guy up so I could put him back down on his stomach, again realized that this was ANOTHER bad idea as he started to struggle, so I gave him a swift knee lift to the stomach, then put him on his stomach. At this point, my wrestling training took over, and I just put my chest on his back and stayed on my tiptoes, placing almost all of my weight on him. I spun a bit, on my chest, as he struggled, looking for security, but still, there was no one. Just people standing around watching. I saw the employee who had chased him standing there holding whatever was in that package, looking at me. "Just... let him go." I looked at him dumbly for a second, then stood up, lifting the guy with me. I was still holding his shirt, having never let go, though it was now torn in half from right shoulder to left hip. I held him out for a second, and said the stupidest thing I think I've ever said. "We cool?" "Just let me go man." So I did, and he just walked away down the parking lot. Not really a lock, no pain compliance, just a pin, but he did just go away. For those wondering, he was trying to return an item and wasn't being served, so he just dropped the item, picked up a new one, and left. Which, of course, triggered the alarm, and set the employee running after him. I do feel kind of bad about it, but feel I acted in good faith. Nathan --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 02:03:39 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Mr. Clark and hyung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir, Ah, I see you do not practice a traditional art? Respectfully, George --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 03:04:53 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Black Belt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Lois writes: > This is a topic close to my heart -- I am testing for first dan in > three days! Hello Lois. Great news my friend. I am sure you will make an excellent black belt. Good luck with the test. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Bob Banham" To: Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 12:16:32 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Martial Arts in NK??? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I will ask Dr. Kimm when I next speak to him. I know he is going to S. Korea with Master West soon so it may be when he gets back. Bob Banham --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "J. R. West" To: Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 07:39:32 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Lock for self defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "I am curious if anyone here has gotten someone into a lock in a real situation (not sparring) and how and when you let go of it? What happened when you let go? If they had just before said they'd be compliant, were they?" An interesting event happened Monday night. An 18 yr. old ex-student of mine with about 3 years of training during Jr. High School was approached by three bad guys while walking into a mall of some kind. One of them had a padlock in each hand to resemble a brass knuckle, and was the lead instigator, striking my former student twice in the back of the head without warning.....Fortunately, my kid was able to survive the initial blows, and after bouncing off a wall, turned around as the attacker came at him again. There was a second of wrestling when all those reps took over and my guy managed to put his assailant in a rudimentary arm bar. As the bad guy struggled, he was forced to the ground at which point a shot from a .22 pistol was heard, and the grounded assailant began to scream. It seems that the "shot" heard was actually a spiral break of Mr. Bad Guy's elbow. Bad guys "B" and "C" seemed to have vanished and when the police arrived, all they found were my ex-student, several witnesses and one perp, who was rushed to the local teaching hospital, where the damaged limb was going to be repaired....Unfortunately the elbow was in such bad shape that, after a couple hours of trying, it was deemed that the only choice was an amputation, mid upper arm. I'm sure that after this goober was let out of the lock, that he was not going to go anywhere. Any decent Hapkido player well let the lock loose when it serves him, and will, through some sort of "discomfort", immobilization or injury, convince the person involved that it would be in his best interest to "comply". J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Mr. Clark and hyung To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 06:21:08 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Ah, I see you do not practice a traditional art? Didn't Itsou, Funakoshi and Hwang Kee create many of the poomse seen today in Tang Soo Do / Soo Bahk Do? To my knowledge none of them had any significant experience in mortal combat. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "rich hodder" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 08:36:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Colorado to the core Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere, Thanks for the kind words, but as far as trying to be a native Texan....My home is Steamboat Springs, CO. I know you are just teasing me, but I do continuously find it funny that the guy that told me that, if you live north of I-10 you are considered a Yankee, and he lives in NORTH Dakota , while I find myself living "about an hour" (a Houston joke) south of I-10. have fun my friend, Rich [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Emoticon2.gif] --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Bob Banham" To: Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 15:28:23 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Nikki's diary Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have just published Nikki's diary of China and N Korea if anyone is interested. Remember only non-political comments please. Thanks Ray. Bob --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Lock and release... Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 10:54:04 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net yes, i have had an experience using a wristlock believe it or not...i was at a bar one night near closing, and some guy came up and put his hand on my chest ( there is more to the story leading up to this, but it isnt important, fact remains he put his hand on me )...i saw it coming, and even in my semi-drunken state, i was able to grasp him in a 1/4 turn wristlock...it was cool too, since it happened without me thinking...i didnt take him to the ground because of the crowd there, some of which were his friends, but i didnt let go until i had space to get away and he agreed that it may be a bad idea to continue to mess with me...i think that mostly the suprise of the lock coming so quickly was what discouraged him the most...he didnt struggle, and he ended up backing off and leaving the bar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brooke Thomas" To: Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 8:06 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Lock and release... > I am curious if anyone here has gotten someone into a > lock in a real situation (not sparring) and how and > when you let go of it? What happened when you let go? > If they had just before said they'd be compliant, > were they? --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Nikki's diary To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 08:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have just published Nikki's diary of China and N Korea if anyone is > interested. Remember only non-political comments please. Thanks Ray. URL? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 10:38:36 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Mr. Clark and hyung To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi George, > From: George Peters [mailto:kyosag@hotmail.com] > Good Sir, > Ah, I see you do not practice a traditional art? > Respectfully, George I really don't know how respectful the question is. But yes I do practice "traditional" arts and have done so for quite some time, having started the martial arts in 1962. In fact I suspect I am quite a bit more traditional than most. The hyung/kata/poomse I practice are the same ones that were taught to me back in the 60's by my Chung Do Kwan instructor - read Korean version of Shotokan forms. In addition I practice Okinawan versions of the same forms. But to be real honest for the past 15 years or so I have really only practiced two forms for my own practice, Naihanchi/Teki/Chulgi 1, and I have practiced 2 and 3 a bit but not much and the short Tai Chi Chuan form. I still remember and can teach the other forms but I have concentrated on Chulgi 1 and I thing I am only now starting actually know this one form. I have not succumbed to the pressure to adopt the constantly changing new forms of the "modern" TKD. These new forms have been created in an attempt to make TDK different from the root art of Shotokan, and what you see today are forms that are shadows of the original. You have seen the rules in sparing change to what we see as Olympic style TKD which is NOT what I have the least bit of interest in being associated with. Today I have my own organization because I am tired of &*(%@# you have to put up with in so many organizations. I made myself a promise years ago that if I ever got to a rank where I could change things I would because I did not want my students to have to play the silly games of politics that I had to do over the years. Another promise I made myself was that if I could help anyone else avoid the petty games played by instructors with egos larger than gods I would do so. At the urging of Remy Presas, my students, and friends I did form my own group and I don't look back one moment for doing so. To be honest I had higher rank and more years of practice of the martial arts that many others who have done the same. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "julie" To: Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 16:12:01 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Lock and release Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Brooke Thomas posted: >I am curious if anyone here has gotten someone into a lock in a real situation (not sparring) and how and when you let go >of it? What happened when you let go? >If they had just before said they'd be compliant, were they? In my limited experience as a Hapkidoist, I have had one such experience. Several years ago I moved to Iowa and had to put my hapkido training on hold. I had just achieved my 6th gup rank before leaving. Therefore, I knew some techniques, but mostly, I knew that I didn't know a whole lot. I had hoped that I would not have to use any of my previous training, but life happens. I had also moved to a not-so-nice town to pursue my post-graduate education, therefore I was aware that bad things can and do happen in that particular town. About seven months into my education, a friend of mine and I decided to attend a school sponsored party. At the party, one of my classmates kept asking me to go home with him, and I continued to politely decline. By the time that I was ready to leave, however, he had other ideas. He had his (larger) friend come over and ask me if I would go home with him, his girlfriend, and his friend (the first guy). I simply said "no" again. The first guy then reached forward to grab my breast. I grabbed his hand, put a quick wrist-lock on him and told him that he could either leave me alone or get seriously hurt. Granted, I shouldn't have threatened him, but he was being completely rude and I was getting quite upset by this time. Luckily, he was scared enough of me after the slight pain of the wrist lock that he (and his friends) quickly left. So, yes, I have had to use a wrist lock in real life. The element of surprise was definitely on my side, and I was thrilled to learn that it worked. I am not sure what I would have done had it not worked, but honestly, I did not even think at that time "gee, I wonder if this particular wrist lock will work or not?" I just reacted to a perceived threat. Julie Howard --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 17:14:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Williams Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Lock and release To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As a 5th Dan Hapkido, I have only had to use locks twice. In both cases against people who grabbed without thinking. Oh yes! They work. So do the kicks. julie wrote:Brooke Thomas posted: >I am curious if anyone here has gotten someone into a lock in a real situation (not sparring) and how and when you let go >of it? What happened when you let go? >If they had just before said they'd be compliant, were they? In my limited experience as a Hapkidoist, I have had one such experience. Several years ago I moved to Iowa and had to put my hapkido training on hold. I had just achieved my 6th gup rank before leaving. Therefore, I knew some techniques, but mostly, I knew that I didn't know a whole lot. I had hoped that I would not have to use any of my previous training, but life happens. I had also moved to a not-so-nice town to pursue my post-graduate education, therefore I was aware that bad things can and do happen in that particular town. About seven months into my education, a friend of mine and I decided to attend a school sponsored party. At the party, one of my classmates kept asking me to go home with him, and I continued to politely decline. By the time that I was ready to leave, however, he had other ideas. He had his (larger) friend come over and ask me if I would go home with him, his girlfriend, and his friend (the first guy). I simply said "no" again. The first guy then reached forward to grab my breast. I grabbed his hand, put a quick wrist-lock on him and told him that he could either leave me alone or get seriously hurt. Granted, I shouldn't have threatened him, but he was being completely rude and I was getting quite upset by this time. Luckily, he was scared enough of me after the slight pain of the wrist lock that he (and his friends) quickly left. So, yes, I have had to use a wrist lock in real life. The element of surprise was definitely on my side, and I was thrilled to learn that it worked. I am not sure what I would have done had it not worked, but honestly, I did not even think at that time "gee, I wonder if this particular wrist lock will work or not?" I just reacted to a perceived threat. Julie Howard _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest