Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 03:03:36 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #200 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Reasonable Use of Force Trainer Certification (Ray) 2. Re: The_Dojang digest, Tae kyon kicks etc... (Raymond Navarro) 3. Re: The_Dojang digest, You are correct about SamRang to TaeKiYun, Ray... (Raymond Navarro) 4. RE: Gen. Choi's obit. (C. Bonner) 5. Mixed Up Martial Artist (Randall Sexton) 6. Re: joint locks (aburrese@aol.com) 7. Moonies (Ray) 8. Kukkiwon Certification (Private Email) 9. Re: Kukkiwon Certification (Ray) 10. Breaking (Ray) 11. Brief history of Tae Kwon Do (Ray) 12. more on the MTA (Ray) 13. Japanese apologies for assassination of Korean empress 100 years ago (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 05:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Reasonable Use of Force Trainer Certification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... Enforcement, Corrections, Military and Security Trainers to join us July 18-23, 2005 for the 24th Annual National Law Enforcement Training Center Reasonable Use of Force Certification Seminar. The seminar is sponsored by the Kansas City, Missouri, Police Department - James D. Corwin, Chief of Police. These trainer development courses are designed to improve instructional and physical skills and understanding of legal and medical implications in control and defensive tactics. NLETC is dedicated to providing officers with dynamic training in handgun/long gun retention and disarming (HLGRD), safe lateral vascular neck restraints (LVNR), and a complete control/defensive tactics trainer certification program. Comprehensive Control/Defensive Tactics Curriculum This 48-hour seminar includes the following courses taught by the nation's top use-of-force trainers: * Control/Defensive Tactics - 16 hr. * Handgun/Long Gun Retention/Disarming - 16 hr. * Use of Force Medical/Legal Implications - 8 hr. * Power Handcuffing - 8 hr. * Arm Control/Escort System (ACES) - 8 hr. * OC Aerosol Control/Defense - 8 hr. * The New Lateral Vascular Neck Restraint - 16 hr. * Trainer Development - 8 hr. * Knife Defense/Disarming System - 8 hr. * Ground Defense/Control Tactics - 8 hr. * Monadnock Control Device & PR-24 - 16 hr. * Weapon Ground Defense & Disarming - 8 hr. * Monadnock/CAS/Generic Expandable Baton - 8 hr. * Trainer Functional Fitness Development - 8 hr. 48-hour block (6 days) - $695.00 40-hour block (5 days) - $625.00 32-hour block (4 days) - $525.00 24-hour block (3 days) - $425.00 Individual 16-hour courses - $275.00 each Individual 8-hour courses - $175.00 each To download a registration form, visit our website. This training meets Missouri P.O.S.T. approved continuing education requirements and is P.O.S.T. approved through the Kansas City, Missouri Police Department Regional Training Academy. We invite your trainers to become certified to teach your officers how to control subjects safely and effectively with proven life-saving dynamic techniques. For more information, call, e-mail or visit our website. We look forward to seeing you in July. Sincerely, Jim Lindell, President National Law Enforcement Training Center email: nletc@kc.rr.com voice: 1-800-445-0857 or (816) 531-2447 web: http://www.nletc.com National Law Enforcement Training Center 4948 Westwood Road Kansas City, MO 64112 --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:25:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Raymond Navarro To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Tae kyon kicks etc... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi and be blessed, Patrick, Klaas and all. There is one thing sure and it is that Grand Master or Great Teacher Ji, Han Jae as father of modern HapKiDo did learned this kicks for wich HapKiDo is known for today. He must have learned it from someone under some martial art so I beleive that he would really not have reason to lie about to say inventingf that what he learned is TaeKyun or Tae Ki Yun. There for I beleive what is sayd about it being from TaeKyun ! This is just my obcervation or 2 cents. Patrick, if you have learned the diference to say this that you mention about it, TaeKyun, being diferent from what is done in HapKiDo - I know the diference in between the TangSooDo, TaeKwonDo and HapKiDo is since I have BB in all these since late 60s and mid 70ies to say this as I say it; thanks and with an open mind ! HAP Ramon Navarro/HapKiDo Teacher/Song Moo Kwan HapKiDo/Panama City Panama 12. Tae kyon ??? (Patrick L) Message: 12 From: "Patrick L" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 16:06:29 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tae kyon ??? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mr. Barneds, I can't speak to all HKD, but I can tell you that I have studied a rather extensive set of kicks directly from Taekkyon. Part of the problem may be that the Taekkyeon you are studiing might be less than, different dialect of, or more than, that incorporated by others. I have been told that there were NO taekkyon schools known to the HKD teachers when HKD was being Koreanized. And that the resources for learning Taekkyon were VERY scarce. If you are studing the rythemic dance version of Taekkyon, then your source is VERY different than the source studied for HKD. Sincerely, Patrick >The guy who imported Taekkyeon-kicks to make TKD or enrich HKD was either OR as bad Taekkyeon player OR a liar. Anybody any comments? -- kind regards, Klaas Barends<   ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a web-based email for life now ---> http://mail.hapkidokr.org --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:51:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Raymond Navarro To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, You are correct about SamRang to TaeKiYun, Ray... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net   Hi Ray and all ! You are correct Ray, what Mr. Ji, HanJae learned was Sam Rang Do and this art has many diferent stems and one that GM Ji learned was TeGi or TaeKyun or Tae Ki Yun wich was the part that included all the leg training that he used to incorporate to DaeHan HapKiYuKwonSul and became HapKiDo. HAP Ramon Navarro 3. Re: Tae kyon ??? (Ray) Message: 3 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Tae kyon ??? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 17:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Part of the problem may be that the Taekkyeon you are studiing might be less > than, different dialect of, or more than, that incorporated by others. > > I have been told that there were NO taekkyon schools known to the HKD > teachers when HKD was being Koreanized. And that the resources for learning > Taekkyon were VERY scarce. > > If you are studing the rythemic dance version of Taekkyon, then your source > is VERY different than the source studied for HKD. fwiw, to be completely accurate in what I had said earlier... The kicks that Gm Ji introduced to Hapkido were from Sam Rang Do Tek Gi, according to Gm Ji. Not the rhythmic dance of taekkyon, but supposedly the kicks of the SamRang. Similar kicks, different purpose. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com   ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a web-based email for life now ---> http://mail.hapkidokr.org --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "C. Bonner" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 12:34:46 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Gen. Choi's obit. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jason,  I completely agree! :-) Clint >If you're over 30, I suggest Kodang! > >:) > >Jason --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:18:03 -1000 From: Randall Sexton To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Mixed Up Martial Artist Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A 26 yr old, Big Island top-ranked welterweight in mixed martial arts blind-sided a cop and tried to run away after the police tried to break up a fight outside a club. The officer got up and chased him down and tackled him and was immediately jumped by several other men. Other officers pulled the men off the cop and the martial artist was arrested. If convicted, he faces up to 5 years in jail. Looks like he couldn't punch, run or resist being tackled very well! Randall Sexton --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 14:41:33 -0400 From: aburrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: joint locks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have used joint locks and choke holds on various occasions in real situations. Albeit, I have smashed and ran a lot more than I have controlled. (Those were my younger days when I used to go out for some squash now and then) Anyway, the last time I used a joint lock on someone was a few years ago when I was working the ZZ Top/Lynrd Skynrd concert. A guy in the audience started throwing stuff and he hit one of ZZ Top. I was told to take him outside, so I did. I went into the crowd and when I got to him I quickly put on the same lock that I am using on the cover of my Hapkido Hoshinsul video. It is a chicken wing technique. I then motioned for my partner, who was coming up to us to take his other arm and we both escorted him outside. Why do it alone when you have help available? The keys to this were: We were not in an all out fight. He didn't know what I was going to do, so I had surprise on my side. I put the lock on him quickly and effeciently - that's why we train so much. Locks do work with the right circumstances and application. I don't do much security work these days. Last time was last summer when I led security for a Blue Oyster Cult concert. So, if I'm not working, and paying attention to things, I hope I don't have to use my Hapkido and Self-defense skills other than to train and teach others. But I do know they work, and I can use them if needed. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Moonies Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.tongilmoodo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:31:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Private Email To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Certification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am a Kukkion certified 4th Dan, and am currently in a U.S. national organization. I am not too happy with my organization and I am thinking I might want to discontinue my association with them. What options do I have if I separate from my U.S. national organization in terms of certifying my new Black Belts with the Kukkiwon? Sincerely, Hopeful Future Independent-ish TKD instructor --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Certification To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I am a Kukkion certified 4th Dan, and am currently in a U.S. national > organization. ... USA Taekwondo? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A rather large file, but 'interesting'... Dim your monitor slightly to watch this. http://www.sci.fi/~ndbbm/karatedojo.mpg --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Brief history of Tae Kwon Do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net :-( http://u.presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1413,218~24209~2860224,00.html Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 19:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] more on the MTA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net New Straits Times Counterpoint: Strike a blow for taekwondo, Azalina Lazarus Rokk May 11 The hardest decisions made by man must surely be the harshest ones, especially those that dictate the necessity to be cruel to be kind. We've all been there at one time or another. Likewise for the Government, shutting down national sports associations will never be an easy decision to make even if it's opulently cushioned by an explicable sense of justice. But when pragmatism demands the right judgement, the verdict must be swift, no matter how unkind it may appear. And although we are far from being the Government's mouth-piece, in this respect I must however assign an "A" to Sports Minister Datuk Azalina Othman Said, and Sports Commissioner Tan Sri Elyas Omar for temporarily shutting down the Malaysian Taekwondo Association (MTA). MTA were de-registered by Elyas last Friday. But having made that conviction, there are however some mitigating factors that need to be considered in an exercise of this nature where the injured parties suffering the brunt of the blow would significantly be the sport and its innocent athletes. This being the case, it would seem that the Sports Development Act that was applied in the de-registration of the national body, would need to be amended so that the ones who would be feeling the pain of such harsh decisions would centrally be the perpetrators. In this respect, the ones who should be facing the wrath of the Act shouldn't be the association, but the administrators, in this case the general council. The Act should allow the association to continue operating, but by an ad hoc committee that could either be appointed by the Ministry or the Olympic Council of Malaysia, until such time when matters have been resolved. Even though Elyas had allowed for tournaments to go on as scheduled, one of the repercussions of the decision was the postponement of the national junior championships scheduled for May 27-29 at Kuala Terengganu. Chairman of the de-registered MTA, Chin Mee Keong, claimed that following the turn of events, Terengganu Menteri Besar Datuk Seri Idris Jusoh had asked them to postpone the championships. Whether or not Chin and his mates are seeking leverage against the Government from the postponement, perhaps the parties concerned should listen to the plea of a mother of a taekwondo exponent, who was representing a group of parents. "We are not interested in the politics of the MTA, but we want the national junior championships to go on as scheduled. "We have applied for leave, we have paid for flight tickets, made room reservations, but above all our children have been training so hard for the competition, so what's going to happen to all these now. "Why must we all pay the price for someone else's mistake?" TimeSport is not interested, nor involved in the politics either. What we would like to see is justice to be done, but the sport to go on. We would like to see this national junior championships go on as scheduled in Kuala Terengganu, even if it has to be hosted by another body. In this respect, I would like to suggest that the National Sports Council (NSC) step in as the new hosts for this meet, as a show of good faith by a body partly responsible for the de-registration. The Government who are being partly held responsible by the parents and exponents alike for the postponement, would step out of this ring looking like champions if they can re-instate the "suspended" national junior championships. Strike a blow for taekwondo, Ms Minister. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 20:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Japanese apologies for assassination of Korean empress 100 years ago Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Japanese apologies for assassination of Korean empress 100 years ago May 10, 2005 The descendants of the Japanese who assassinated Empress Myeongseong in 1895, wife of King Gojong (Joseon Dynasty), have come to Korea to make apologies for their ancestors' brutal act. Tatsumi Kawano, 84, is a descendant of Shigeaki Kunitomo who led the assassins, and Keiko Ieiri, 77, granddaughter-in-law of another assassin, Kakitsu Ieiri. They arrived at Incheon International Airport on Monday along with some 20 members of an organization set up in memory of the Korean empress. Kawano serves as president of the group. "Some friends tried to dissuade me from coming here, saying I might be killed. But I wanted to be here to apologize to Koreans for what my grandfather did," he said upon arriving at the airport. Kawano, a physician practicing in Kumamoto, Japan, set up the organization, People's Group in Memory of Myeongseong. Since their arrival here, the visitors toured Hongnung in Gyeonggi Province, the burial site of Myeongseong and her husband King Gojong, to pay homage to the deceased. They also visited a historic site in Yeoju, a nearby city, where the childhood house of the empress is still kept. Their itinerary includes a tour of Gyeongbokgung Palace, where the assassination took place. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest