Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 10:28:17 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #230 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Failing and passing a perspective (tkdsid@aol.com) 2. RE: Failed Test (Master Mark Seidel) 3. RE: A new organization (Rick Clark) 4. IOC Vice President Dismisses Privilege for Taekwondo (Ray) 5. Re: HKD kicks (Klaas Barends) 6. RE: Re: Failed test (Rick Clark) 7. failed test (Bruce Sims) 8. Re: Failing and passing a perspective (Edmund T) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 07:55:34 -0400 From: tkdsid@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Failing and passing a perspective Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When I passed my orals for my Ph.D, I observed that practically no one fails their oral exams; on the other hand no one it seems fully passes the first time either. In my school where I passed first dan, no one failed their test either. Let me explain. In my university and at my dojang, it was felt that no one would be allowed to test for either their doctorate or black belt that was not ready for promotion. So, the perspective of passing and failing is more a function of the posture of the master than an objective sense of what is good or bad. My school made it pretty easy to ghet a black belt. Other schools put you through hell. One more thought...can you compare a black belt in taekwondo to a black belt in kyokushin karate???? Final thought....check the websites of one of the many martial arts networks, eg ISA and look at the martial arts bio's of the masters. One guy has 9 dans over 8th dan. Gimmee a freakin' break! As for the guy that failed recently...were you the only one that failed? Sid --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Master Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Failed Test Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 08:05:03 -0400 Organization: The Midtown Academy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In 1967 when I started TKD people not passing their test were common. From 1990 on every test I witnessed or sat at the table, I had not seen one person fail although at least half of them were not up to par. So at least your at a school that requires competence that should be your solace; go back and get it right and the failure will seem nothing more than character building. Master Mark Seidel Martial Arts /PE Program The Midtown Academy http://www.midtownacademy.org -----Original Message----- From: Brian Beach [mailto:brian@jinpalhapkidodc.com] Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 11:58 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Failed Test Edmund, Don't let it dull your enthusiasm. How you respond to failing a test separates the men from the boys. Now is the time to choose whether martial arts was a passing fancy, (going to get a black belt for the "life resume" ) or is it going to become ingrained into your life style. Perhaps you should look at failing the test as the true test. What are you made of when the chips are down. Which is what you are training for ultimately anyway. Correct? Can I save my ass when it counts. It is an exercise in spirit. Martial arts are for more then kicking butt. These lessons are much more important then the perfect roundhouse. Concur yourself before you can concur over others. Good Luck and In Nae, Brian On May 30, 2005, at 10:51 AM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > I guess what hurts is the enthusiasm I now have for taekwondo in > general. It is a blow to the ego admittedly, but also a blow to my > enthusiasm. Reaching the black belt for most of us would be something > of a personal achievement. I guess for me there is still a long way to > go. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 08:40:14 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] A new organization To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I advise my friends and students to be members of more than one organization - don't put all of your eggs in one basket so to speak. That way the leverage the head of an organization "might" have over you is minimized. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Junkredmailbox@cs.com [mailto:Junkredmailbox@cs.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 1:34 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] A new organization > > > I ready don't know where to start. I am with an organization > that I am > growing apart from. The instructor who started this > organization and I have > different views. I have struggled with the issue of money > with him. I fought back and > defended him for several years when people said he likes > money and know I > believe he is all about the money. I want to stay with an > organization so that I > continue to grow as a martial artist. I am originally from a > Japanese art > (Shotokan) and now studying TKD. My friends and I want to > break away from him and > want to find a good organization or start another. Any > comments or suggestions > will be appreciated. > > > Thanks > > > Chris _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 06:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] IOC Vice President Dismisses Privilege for Taekwondo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net OC Vice President Dismisses Privilege for Taekwondo The Korea Times By Kim Hyun-cheol Staff Reporter 05-31-2005 It is not completely certain that taekwondo will always be an official Olympic sport, according to Gunilla Lindberg, the secretary general of the Association of National Olympic Committees (ANOC), also an IOC vice president. ``I think taekwondo is a good sport that fits the Olympic program and we have seen that it's proved to be a good sport,'' Lindberg told The Korea Times. However, she made it clear that it will be just one of many other sports to be tested in the upcoming IOC general assembly. ``When the IOC judges a sport, they give a technical evaluation of all the trends of sports. Each sport is evaluated in the same way. It is the sport itself that is judged and all the sports are the same in that regard,'' she added. Next month's International Olympic Committee (IOC) general assembly to be held in Singapore draws some attention due to a particular schedule. For the first time, the IOC will have votes for each individual discipline of the sports festival, to decide if each sport is suited to keeping its status in the official program. Any sport that fails to get a majority vote, will still remain an Olympic sport until 2012, and will then make room for other sports vying to be included. The national sport of South Korea, taekwondo, has recently gone through some hard times with the resignation of former IOC vice president Kim Un-yong in the build-up to the international bribery scandal. Even though it has been recognized a favored sport worldwide, no one can comfortably expect it will continue to keep its current position. In the current Olympic Charter, the number of sports on the program is fixed between 15 and 28. Competition is inevitable among sports-governing organizations hoping for a spot in the sports event. Lindberg refused to provide her view Kim, saying: ``I don't think I came here to comment on him,'' she said. ``I came here as ANOC secretary general to prepare its meeting. My visit here has nothing to do with the IOC.'' The Swedish official was in Seoul preparing for the next ANOC general assembly scheduled here from March 31 - April 7, 2006. ANOC is the umbrella organization of the IOC, formed with 203 countries as its members. Lindberg hinted there will be many more changes in the Olympic program according to the management of the IOC by its president Jacque Rogge, who is well known for focusing on ``cleanness.'' ``I can say that when he became president of the IOC, he was very clear in what he wanted to do for the IOC's future,'' she noted. ``He is strict and has quite a clear focus on fair play, no tolerance (to corruption, doping, etc), and how to foster the image of the Olympics movement.'' To Lindberg, this special procedure is an effective means of revoking competition among sports to attract more fans and popularity. ``I don't think there will be any possible 'victims' of the vote, if the procedures of the technical bodies that have been engaged in all the Olympic sports are transparent and well-received by the IOC,'' she said. ``And I believe the (vote) procedure has an effect that makes many sports looking over its own role and how to make their sports popular and furthermore universal. The whole procedure means a lot to the Olympic programs.'' Upon being questioned on the actual possibility of real changes, Lindberg predicted there will be more changes possibly in the future for the purpose of getting on a par with current trend of sports. ``That's why it will be looked at in each edition of the Games if they are suitable to be an Olympic program or not. We will constantly review all the programs every four years,'' she said. The growing commercialism of the Olympics has been one of the biggest issues for controversy on the event, but Lindberg said it isn't something that can be separated from the true Olympic spirit, focusing on a practical point of view. ``No event today can take place without sponsors, and the sponsors are a very important part of the Olympic family,'' she said. ``But we also need to control what sponsors can do. Talking about the athletes, many of them are professionals, and I think it's good to let more professional athletes compete at the Olympic Games because they want to have the best athletes. I don't see any conflict between that and the Olympic spirit.'' She also sent a warm message to the South Korean sports players, especially female ones. ``South Korea has some wonderful athletes in sports like archery and short track, and its female athletes are especially making a fast progress. I hope to see more women competing in the global sports scene,'' said Lindberg, the second female IOC vice president in the history of the organization. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Klaas Barends Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 22:43:31 +0900 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: HKD kicks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Most of the high flying kicks or done for demo's. Hapkido kicks > also have within them circular motion. The demo type kicks are not > practiced at every school across america so you won't see them at > your local dojang. > I think Alain is comparing HKD en TKD dojang IN KOREA.... From what I heard TKD originally only had three kicks or so. Front, Roundhouse and Side kick. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ Dutch HKD Federation http://www.sangmookwan.com/ SangMooKwan International Training Center Korea --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 08:45:08 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Failed test To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Edmund, Suicide is not an option :-) You failed the test for any number of reasons many of which might have nothing to do with your skill or ability - and my guess is that this is or at least could be the case. You would not have had your instructor suggest that you test for your black belt unless they thought you would pass (or that is my assumption). Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org > -----Original Message----- > From: ISA Headquarters [mailto:isahdq@sc.rr.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 12:46 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Failed test > > > QUOTE: > Hey guys > > I failed my black belt grading. Any tips? Suicide looks good. > > Cheers > EdmundT > > -- __--__-- UNQUOTE! > > Edmund, > You failed for a reason, you just have to figure out what > that reason is and > go on from there. It's really not hard to fail, but passing is. > Example: > I just failed one of my 2nd Dan going to 3rd Dan. Why? He > thought he was > ready, knew the patterns well, knew the history well, but > mentally he wasn't > prepared to take it to the next level. For me, in order for > one to attain > black belt degrees after 1st Dan, they must be mentally ready > for any attack > at any time. If they do poorly in a school testing setting, > how well will > they do on the street where it is real? > Consider yourself lucky that it was your instructor who > failed you and not > some thug on the street. > > Respectfully, > George I. Petrotta > ISA Director > www.sungjado.org/ > isahdq@sc.rr.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 07:55:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] failed test Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Edmund: Actually, there is no such thing as a "failed test". The idea of "failing" a test is an artifact created by people who see a need to define a hierarchy of performance and do so based on some criteria. This is pretty common is schools, occupations and politics where it is necessary to have some sort of contrived reason for selecting one person for a limited position and not another. What you are calling a test, is actually little more than a checklist to audit whether you have accrued a particular body of information. Call it a check list. Call it an inventory, but its not a "test". A test or "trial" is an actual application of your knowledge so unless your teacher put you in a situation where your life hung in the balance all you were actually exposed to was another day of training, gussied-up in a kind of special ritual with attendent trappings and fees--- nothing more. I suppose you can make as much of it as you want. Personally I think it would be a waste of time, but your mileage may vary. However, with the thinking you are using right now ANY day could be a "test" if thats the way you choose to characterize it. OR-- NO day could be a test. Its a game you can play in the back of your head if thats what winds your clock. I think the fact that the guy who did the "testing" as you call it is not the person you turned to to sort out your issues speaks volumes about where you study. A good teacher works with his students to understand where they are in the inventory process and to move ahead. The use of standing or rank as a carrot is a pretty sucky way to encourage growth unless you are dealing with people of marginal competence who have become willing to change their behavior for the sake of M&M-s or a gold star. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 00:24:50 +0800 From: Edmund T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Failing and passing a perspective Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was one of the many that failed... The standard passing rate is 75%... On 5/31/05, tkdsid@aol.com wrote: > When I passed my orals for my Ph.D, I observed that practically no one fails their oral exams; on the other hand no one it seems fully passes the first time either. In my school where I passed first dan, no one failed their test either. Let me explain. In my university and at my dojang, it was felt that no one would be allowed to test for either their doctorate or black belt that was not ready for promotion. So, the perspective of passing and failing is more a function of the posture of the master than an objective sense of what is good or bad. My school made it pretty easy to ghet a black belt. Other schools put you through hell. One more thought...can you compare a black belt in taekwondo to a black belt in kyokushin karate???? Final thought....check the websites of one of the many martial arts networks, eg ISA and look at the martial arts bio's of the masters. One guy has 9 dans over 8th dan. Gimmee a freakin' break! As for the guy that failed recently...were you the only one that failed? > > > Sid > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest