Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 06:18:19 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #250 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Jason...salute (George Peters) 2. Hapkido in Japan (Chris Holmes) 3. Kendo Schools in the NJ Area (Aloaf@aol.com) 4. Days of the week (Ray) 5. multiple promotions (Chris Holmes) 6. Re: Hapkido and Small Kids (ABurrese@aol.com) 7. Re: Bowing to Flags (ABurrese@aol.com) 8. "Masters"??? (Bruce Sims) 9. Bowing to Flags (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 10. Re: Bowing to Flags (JENNIFER KIRAL) 11. No changes recommended to Olympic program (Ray) 12. ROK to launch publicity campaign to keep taekwondo in Olympics (Ray) 13. Looking for a little advice (Craig Zeigler) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 01:04:22 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Jason...salute Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir, The salute is like that used when carrying a rifle, only your body is your weapon, hence your palm is on the parallel with the floor.(heart level) When the org I belong to starts class, the instruction to salute the flag is given in Korean as one of the things we do. Respectfully, George --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Chris Holmes" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 12:05:17 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido in Japan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, I don't know about hapkido but there are 2 Han Mu Do clubs in Japan. Maybe more. If you go to www.hanmudo.com and email the webmaster he can get you the info. Good luck Chris Holmes --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Aloaf@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 13:16:47 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kendo Schools in the NJ Area Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Guys, I'm looking for Kendo Schools in the NJ/PA area. As close as possible to Trenton NJ. Interested in checking a few out and seeing what each instructor has to offer. Any names/locations you could throw our would be great. Thanks Dan O'Boyle --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Days of the week Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... The 10 day week is interesting. > I'll leave it to the historical linguistics people to answer the first > question, though I would like to add a related question: When did Koreans > first begin writing Chinese characters on the palms of their hands with > their fingers when they wanted to show a listener which Chinese character > they were talking about? > > As for the days of the week, that is clearly a Japanese import. The whole > notion of a 7 day week wasn't accepted in Seoul until the end of the 19th > century and it took a while to get people in the countryside to start > thinking about a week as 7 days long rather than 10. A month was > traditionally divided into the first 10 days, the 2nd ten days, and the 3rd > ten days. As for the exact name for a specific day of that ten-day week, I > don't know of any, though the literate could use the appropriate hanja pair > from the sixty cyclical calendrical items that were used to name days and > years. > > As for official dates on documents, as a tributary state of China, Korea > was supposed to use Chinese reign titles for dates. In internal documents, > Korean reign titles could be used (as long as the rulers in Beijing didn't > find out about it). It has also been reported that, especially in the 17th > and 18th centuries, some Koreans who refused to accept the legitimacy of > the Manchu conquest of the Ming, continued to use Ming reign dates long > after the Ming was dead. I vaguely recall seeing a Ming reign date on an > 18th century Korean document, but don't remember when or where I saw it. > > > Don Baker > Associate Professor, > Department of Asian Studies > Director, Centre for Korean Research > University of British Columbia > Vancouver, Canada V6T 1Z2 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Chris Holmes" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 12:27:08 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] multiple promotions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can not speak for the school you mentioned and I don't have 100 students yet. However if you look at the graduation rates for the Ivy League schools, they are much higher than the testing rate of most martial arts schools. Are we being more elite or less effective at teaching the material? I am continuously trying to improve my teaching technique. Even with a M.Ed. I get new and great ideas all the time. My retention rate is improving so I know I'm doing something right. I know schools that are doing the same warmup that the instructor learned in the 60's, very boring, not really effective, and sometimes not safe. There are always going to be belt factories but there are some awesome large schools that produce large numbers of very good students. Make your schools better and ignore the ineffective ones. Chris Holmes --__--__-- Message: 6 From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 14:03:43 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido and Small Kids Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce wrote: Hapkido is not now nor has it ever been for children. The people who purport to teach children "Hapkido" do not in fact teach children "Hapkido". ************************ Bruce, I must ask then, what are the Hapkido instructors in Korea teaching to children in the Hapkido dojangs? What were the Hapkido instructors leaning in Korea when they were younger? Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 14:07:18 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Bowing to Flags Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>Mr. Burrese, well stated. >>I hope that you enjoy your next trip back to Korea. >> >>Jeffery Dean Sr. Thank you, and please use Alain. I'm really looking forward to this trip. I had to pass on a couple of events in the States like GM West's big event and Marc MacYoung's gathering that I usually teach at because of this trip, but it is worth it. I'm really looking forward to training with my instructors there, and having some of the food that we just can't get here. :-) Plus, we'll go see something that we haven't seen yet, and visit other places that we really enjoy. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] "Masters"??? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Very possibly I may be missing something obvious. Its been known to happen. But I am not sure I am following this exchange about "Masters". Who exactly is it that is invested in these titles. I ask because each time this discussion comes up people usually disclaim their comments by pointing out that they themselves are not invested in such titles. OK. Then why are we having this discussion? I don't mean "stop discussing". What I mean is, how is it that these titles continue to exist if nobody is actually invested in using them? WHO is using these titles and WHY do they feel the need to use these titles? In my own case, I don't want and I don't need a title to tell me what I am about. I CAN say that GM Myung has been addressed as "GM" for years and I have no authority to deny him that ettiquette or respect. JR and Rudy have conducted themselves in such a fashion in the Hapkido community that-- like it or not--- they get addressed as Master Timmerman or Master West and I think they have given-up arguing with me about it. This still doesn't answer the question though. WHO is it that requires these titles and WHY are they requiring them? Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 14:35:37 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bowing to Flags Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I too salute the flag, and I bow to those people I want to show respect. Bowing to a flag or picture is not practiced by anyone I train with in the Moo Duk Kwan. Just my two cents JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:33:38 -0700 (PDT) From: JENNIFER KIRAL Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Bowing to Flags To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net i have been following this thread for awhile now, just wanted to say that at our school, we bow as we enter the dojang and as we leave as a sign of respect to the school...we bow to the mat before we get on it and bow to it as we leave as a sign of respect for the tradition and training on the mat itself, and we also bow to the teacher before and after class, as well as to other partners before the start of training with them ( and as you finish ), or before and after the start of sparring ( as well as to the teacher and the cornermen or judges), or when you present or recieve a weapon while training with them. we have a korean and u.s. flag in our school, as well as a picture of our teachers teacher, and although you face them as you bow to the dojang, teacher, or the mat, never once have we been told that we are bowing to a flag...always to a person, the mat, or the school. Gladewater SooBahkDo wrote:I too salute the flag, and I bow to those people I want to show respect. Bowing to a flag or picture is not practiced by anyone I train with in the Moo Duk Kwan. Just my two cents JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] No changes recommended to Olympic program Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net No changes recommended to Olympic program By STEPHEN WILSON LONDON (AP) - The IOC released a hefty report Monday assessing the 28 sports hoping to stay in the Olympics and the five sports trying to get in, but making no case for any change. The 265-page review by the International Olympic Committee's program commission lists facts and figures across a range of 33 criteria but offers no recommendations for adding or dropping any sport. The report is designed to serve as a guide for IOC members when they vote on the sports program in Singapore next month. Each of the 28 sports contested in Athens last summer will be put to a vote; any sport failing to get a majority will be dropped for the 2012 Olympics. The five sports on the waiting list are golf, rugby, karate, squash and roller sports. No sport will be added unless one is dropped. No sport has been cut from the Summer Olympics since polo in 1936. Removal from the program would be devastating for smaller sports which rely on the Olympics for prestige and revenue. The Association of Summer Olympic International Federations, which represents all 28 sports, is lobbying for the existing program to be upheld. "The perception that the report is a bit bland or tame is saying something in itself," said ASOIF director Robert Fasulo, a member of the IOC program panel. "For us, that's a good sign. "Our hope is the report will reaffirm the strength of the program. If you've got a winning formula, you don't need to change it." The IOC said the report "simply outlines the facts." In 2002, IOC president Jacques Rogge proposed that baseball, softball and modern pentathlon be removed and golf and rugby be added, but IOC members resisted and no vote was taken. Monday's report culminates a two-year review of the sports program covering issues such as global popularity, television and media coverage, ticket sales and anti-doping policies. Some sports were cited for a low level of participation in parts of the world, high venue and technology costs, low hours of television coverage and scant media coverage. Track and field, swimming, artistic gymnastics and basketball were among those cited for substantial TV and print coverage. The report pointed out problems in judging and scoring in boxing and gymnastics. AIBA, the amateur boxing association, "needs to prove considerably the selection, training and evaluation of referees and judges, especially considering the high level impact of judging on the competition results and the continued lack of transparency in the system," the report said. AIBA has discussed possible improvements with the IOC, but had not provided any concrete information or timetable for change, the report said. The IOC also cited "major flaws" in judging at the gymnastics in Athens, referring to the scoring controversy which dragged on for months over Paul Hamm's gold medal in the all-around. But the report pointed out that the international federation, FIG, had "made a priority of improving the system" and announced major changes to its scoring system and appointment of officials. Other points made in the report: -Baseball fails to bring Major League players to the Olympics and needs to needs to make more effort to increase public interest and understanding in areas where the sport is not popular. -"The style of presentation of beach volleyball as an Olympic sport should be discussed further." That was an apparent reference to the entertainment offered by bikini-clad dancers at the venue in Athens, which offended some players. -The image of race walking events in track and field "remains a concern" due to frequent disqualifications. The report also issued notes of caution about some of the sports on the waiting list. For golf, the IOC said, there is "no certainty" that the top players would take part in the Olympics. The roller sports federation, which proposes speed skating events in the Olympics, has a "very low" number of national bodies and its strategic plan "appears to lack integration." -------------------- LONDON (AP) - A brief look at the findings of the IOC program commission report on the 28 Olympic sports and five sports hoping for admission: Olympic sports Boxing Strong Olympic tradition. Fairly low number of prime-time viewer hours during 2004 Olympics. "Primarily a male-dominated" sport. Need to improve selection and training of judges. [snip] Fencing Praised for strong Olympic tradition - at every modern Games - but different judging criteria can be difficult to understand. [snip] Wrestling Strong Olympic tradition. Participation in qualifying events for Athens was "particularly low" in Africa and Americas. TV coverage and prime-time viewer hours "fairly low." [snip] Judo Fairly high number of prime-time viewer hours during Athens Games but a low number of countries broadcast the last two world championships. Overall strong training and selection of judges. [snip] Taekwondo Just under 99 per cent of 92,000 tickets sold at Sydney and Athens. The WTF must ensure that "both the selection and impartiality of referees are unquestionable." -------------------- Olympic hopeful sports [snip] Karate WKF proposes nine karate events for Olympic program, six for men and three for women. Very low number of countries which broadcast last two world championships. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 05:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] ROK to launch publicity campaign to keep taekwondo in Olympics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ROK to launch publicity campaign to keep taekwondo in Olympics The Korea Olympic Committee (KOC) will dispatch three delegations to 15 countries in a bid to retain the traditional Korean martial art of taekwondo as an official sport at the 2012 Summer Olympics, an official of the South Korean body told Yonhap on Tuesday. The delegations will launch their 15-day publicity campaigns at staggered intervals and travel to 15 countries, including the United States, Argentina, Finland and Mexico, according to Yonhap. Each delegation is scheduled to leave Friday, the report said. They will appeal to the members of the International Olympic Committee (IOC), as well as urging the chairmen of each National Olympic Committee, to keep the sport as an official event, the official said. The IOC members will decide on the issue at its general assembly in Singapore next month. A negative vote would see the martial art eliminated from the 2012 Olympics as a competition sport. Taekwondo made its first official appearance at the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games and will be retained for the 2008 Games in Beijing. Source: Xinhua --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:49:02 -0400 From: Craig Zeigler To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Looking for a little advice Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a bit of dilemma that I"m not sure how to deal with or even if I should. Last night, I encountered someone from my old TKD school who after some pleasant conversation joined my friends and myself. After about 15 minutes to talking, he decided he was going to try to kick the hat from my head. Consequently he missed and kicked me in the face, but thankfully he didn't hurt anything. This young person is a 1st Dan of perhaps 15-16 years of age. He does not possess the skill, self-control, or many of the other characteristics of that rank, and I'm not sure how I should deal with this. I am also a 1st Dan but left that school because the instructor didn't teach any of the philosophy, self-restraint, or a large number of other aspects that I felt were important for a higher ranking student. To make a long story short, this school turned out to be a black belt factory. Anyway, I"m not sure how I should deal with this. Should I have a conversation with the instructor, or simply let it go. I'd like to think having a conversation with the instructor would have something productive come out of it, but I get the feeling it may fall on deaf ears, and I may end up insulting a person I respect even though I don't entirely agree with his teachings. Any suggestions would be helpful. With Respect, Craig --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest