Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 05:55:15 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #252 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Kwan Jyel Sul (brent b) 2. From an article: Kwan Jyel Sul (J R Hilland) 3. Re: the Master's (Adam D. Huntley) 4. Re: Master (Kevin Luttrell) 5. hapkido and small children (James Allison) 6. Japantoday (Ray) 7. Re: Jason...salute (Jason & Nicole Swanson) 8. Re: Looking for a little advice (Tim) 9. Master title (tkdsid@aol.com) 10. "Masters"???? (Bruce Sims) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:45:42 -0700 (PDT) From: brent b To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kwan Jyel Sul Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John, Kwan Jyel Sul is joint manipulation, or as it's called in the Japanese arts, Tuite. Joint locks and such. It's the basis of a lot of the motions in the older type forms - the Chon Ji Tul's which are basicly Shotokan blender forms; The Chung Do Kwan forms which are pretty much straight Shotokan forms; and the Tang Soo Do forms, which are Korean version of Karate forms. The old forms were ways of remembering the training drills or self defense drills that one was taught. The newer Korean forms were not developed with this intent. This is but a brief explanation. I know I did not include every kwan or style. I know the explanation is incomplete but hey - I have to do some work at work. Oh - Believe it or not, a low block is not just to block a front kick. There must be at least 74 other applications for this move. Brent the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: >Message: 14 John-Lewis Lewis wrote: I haven't found Kwan Jyel Sul in Taekwondo. Where is it? Perhaps in the poomsae? regards, John Lewis. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:23:16 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] From an article: Kwan Jyel Sul Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John: Kwanjyelsul are the joint manipulation techniques practiced thousands of times with a training partner that are commonly found in the ki and combat arts such as traditional hapkido. JRH www.hapkidoselfdefense.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Adam D. Huntley" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:13:22 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: the Master's Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I originally started this string just to see the different reactions. I'll be receiving my "master" title July 2nd in Seattle, and I'm not totally comfortable with being called master at age 32. When asked my instructor, who will be testing for his 8th degree at this event, says "because I say you are." That statement is good enough for me, but I have family in other TKD orgs where the master rank is a bit higher, ATA 6th degree - USTF 7th degree, with myself at 5th degree I feel I need to defend myself. Sorry of this has been hashed out before, I'm fairly new to the forum. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:36:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Luttrell To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Master Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, I havent been able to keep up for a while as I have opened a commercial school and am working on that but today I have taken a break and caught the recent digest. I am a member of the United States Chung Do Kwan Association. My instructor is GM Edward B. Sell and this is what the USCDKA says about Titles. We use an instructor training system and the Titles are specific to your rank as an instructor and not only your belt level. It is possible to be a certain rank and not have earned an instructors title the way the USCDKA uses the titles as "instructor degrees". What is a Master? A Master is a person who has mastered the practical aspects of Taekwondo. In the United States Chung Do Kwan Association, all 4th Degree Black Belts are immediately eligible for the Associate Masters Degree. If they wish to master the art of teaching, they must continue the process of being upgraded in the Master Instructors Degree System. The training period at this level may be as much as fifteen to twenty years, depending upon the consistency, teaching abilities of the individual, personal growth and contribution to the goals and vision of the United States Chung Do Kwan Assoc. A Master has learned how to conquer any obstacle that would hinder him from developing as a whole person, in mind, body, or spirit. A Master must also have organizational skills in order to be a leader. A Master should be a role model who practices good morals by setting an example through his lifestyle. A Master is sensitive to the needs of others and practices the principles of the three F's when dealing with relationships, by being: Firm-Standing for what he believes in, therefore gaining respect. Fair-Showing compassion by listening to the needs and suggestions of others. Friendly-Keeping the lines of communication open. A Grandmaster is a teacher of Masters. The Kwan'Jang is a Senior Grandmaster, equivalent to the Head Dean of a college. In 1968, Grandmaster Sell created and documented his Instructor Degree program. This system allows those Black Belts who wish to pass their knowledge on to others to progress not only in Black Belt rank, but also in elevated teaching skill levels. The USCDK Instructors Degree Program has allowed tremendous growth in this national association because of the incentives that have kept the retention of the Black Belt students who has the wish to become an Instructor. The following titles are earned independently of the rank with specific requirements and prerequisites to achieve them. MASTER DEGREES Associate Master 4th Degree Master4th DegreeMaster Instructor5th DegreeSr. Master6th DegreeProfessor7th DegreeGrandmaster8th DegreeSr. Grandmaster9th Degree Master Kevin Luttrell Director The Martial Artist Foundation Springfield, Mo. Visit The Martial Artist Foundation Official Website and Sign up for FREE Dish Network Offer Support TMAF at www.sportTKD.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "James Allison" To: Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:11:22 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido and small children Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce wrote: Hapkido is not now nor has it ever been for children. The people who purport to teach children "Hapkido" do not in fact teach children "Hapkido". Very interesting...I have been teaching children Hapkido for 18 years. I have several students that stayed with it and made black belt and have moved on to be Instructors themselves. If you are not willing to teach children that is fine. But don't think that it can't be done because it is. Sure, for the must part I don't teach my younger children the more dangerous techniques. But I do teach them the principles and philosophy that separates Hapkido from other arts. If anyone on the list is ever in Georgia and want to visit my school and se my children's Hapkido program you are more than welcome. I am about 74 miles northeast of Atlanta. I also run a successful full time Hapkido school. I teach nothing but Hapkido and make a very good living doing so. And, I have also heard that that was also not possible. For what it is worth, respectfully yours in Hapkido, James Allison --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Japantoday Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net japantoday sport TAEKWONDO JOC close to giving green light to JTA Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 07:25 JST TOKYO - The Japanese Olympic Committee (JOC) said Tuesday it is close to acknowledging the Japan Taekwondo Association (JTA) as an official organization of the sport. Should the JTA be formally approved June 23, it would clear the way to send athletes to the summer Universiade Games in Turkey in August and East Asian Games this fall in Macao, China. (Kyodo News) --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Jason & Nicole Swanson" To: Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:10:56 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Jason...salute Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What is the command in Korean for "Salute the flags"? Jason > Good Sir, > The salute is like that used when carrying a rifle, only your body is > your weapon, hence your palm is on the parallel with the floor.(heart level) > When the org I belong to starts class, the instruction to salute the flag is > given in Korean as one of the things we do. > Respectfully, > George --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Tim" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Looking for a little advice Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:28:50 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Let it go. You let him try to kick the hat . I think that makes you equally at fault. Maybe he learned he needs to practice and you learned not to risk your face while fooling around. Just my two cents. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Zeigler" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Looking for a little advice >I have a bit of dilemma that I"m not sure how to deal with or even if I >should. > > Last night, I encountered someone from my old TKD school who after some > pleasant conversation joined my friends and myself. After about 15 minutes > to talking, he decided he was going to try to kick the hat from my head. > Consequently he missed and kicked me in the face, but thankfully he didn't > hurt anything. This young person is a 1st Dan of perhaps 15-16 years of > age. > > He does not possess the skill, self-control, or many of the other > characteristics of that rank, and I'm not sure how I should deal with > this. I am also a 1st Dan but left that school because the instructor > didn't teach any of the philosophy, self-restraint, or a large number of > other aspects that I felt were important for a higher ranking student. To > make a long story short, this school turned out to be a black belt > factory. > > Anyway, I"m not sure how I should deal with this. Should I have a > conversation with the instructor, or simply let it go. I'd like to think > having a conversation with the instructor would have something productive > come out of it, but I get the feeling it may fall on deaf ears, and I may > end up insulting a person I respect even though I don't entirely agree > with his teachings. > > Any suggestions would be helpful. > > With Respect, > > Craig > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:38:57 -0400 From: tkdsid@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master title Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've spoken to GM Rhin Moon Chun and his position is that in WTF Master can only be used by those with 7th dan or higher. I know someone in Queens that refers to himself and Grandmaster and is 6th dan. The point is, that very little in martial arts has a standardization. Very little in martial arts has broad universal acceptance. There is no regulation by statute, no accreditation, no US National commission. So, I've accepted the fact that we will spin our wheels until such a time when it affects business. Then, perhaps there will be some attempt to establish some criteria we all understand and accept. Sid --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 05:21:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] "Masters"???? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks, Wayne. ".....Let there be no confusion though there is a lot of difference in "Earning" a title and "Assuming" a title....." This is the pivotal point I wanted to make. I don't hear that JR went out and told his students that he expected to be addressed as "GM". My experience with JR has always been that he simply had no patience for or interest in titles. The fact that it takes GM Kimm coming along and making the statement that he did testifies to this, I think.(Comes to think of it. I can't think of anyone associated with the "Stealth Van" crew who made any big deal about titles, either.) Extending forward form this, the question still remains, who is it that continues to make such a pointed issue about titles? I don't think we can lay it all at the door of one or two people such as Dr. Kimm wanting to assure that that a positive contributor to the KMA gets his due, yes? And it certainly does not explain the exotic hierarchy of titles found in the two organizations I mentioned earlier. Thoughts? Comments? Best Wishes, Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest