Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 03:04:19 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #253 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: "Masters"???? (Ray) 2. RE: Master title (Rick Clark) 3. Hapkido for Kids (Bruce Sims) 4. Terms?? (Bruce Sims) 5. Low Blocks or not? (john.a.mcintosh@bt.com) 6. Re: Master (Dana Vaillancourt) 7. Re: Kwan Jyel Sul (Dana Vaillancourt) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] "Masters"???? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 06:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... the question still remains, who is it that > continues to make such a pointed issue about titles? Bruce, that would seem to be you... and those that insist on having Master or Grandmaster as part of their name or 'signature'. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:59:02 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Master title To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Sid, >From: tkdsid@aol.com [mailto:tkdsid@aol.com] The point is, that very little in martial arts >has a standardization. Very little in martial arts has broad >universal acceptance. There is no regulation by statute, no >accreditation, no US National commission. So, I've accepted >the fact that we will spin our wheels until such a time when >it affects business. Then, perhaps there will be some attempt >to establish some criteria we all understand and accept. > >Sid I doubt there will ever be any standardization in the martial arts. You would have to deal with a plethora of KMA groups each of whom have their own territory to protect, not to mention the Japanese, Okinawan, Chinese, free-style, and eclectic arts. You will NEVER get them all under one roof with agreement. The only way would be by the government and even then that would be a free for all - because there would have to be grandfather clauses built into the law. Then who would be the individuals to decide? Politics, money, and power would rear it's ugly head. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:23:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido for Kids Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear James: "......If you are not willing to teach children that is fine. But don't think that it can't be done because it is. Sure, for the must part I don't teach my younger children the more dangerous techniques. But I do teach them the principles and philosophy that separates Hapkido from other arts. ...." Not to quibble but I think you are making my point. As far as I am concerned when someone begins to rule-out portions of the curriculum they have begun to step away from the art. Certainly there are people who use Hapkido material to teach Children, just like there are TKD and TSD people who have decided to accept a handicapped or impaired person as a student. Often such teaching requires a change in the curriculum and that is understandable. And if people want to use MA material to help someone grow, I think that is admirable. Where I draw the line is having someone purport to teach Hapkido material versus teaching the art. Without this distinction we have a host of TKD schools (for instance) who purport to teach Hapkido because they have added a few throws, locks and pins to their curriculum. Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:25:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Terms?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".....Kwan Jyel Sul is joint manipulation, or as it's called in the Japanese arts, Tuite...." Is this a newly minted term? I have not run into this before. Best Wishes, Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:34:58 +0100 From: To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Low Blocks or not? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Brent wrote: "Oh - Believe it or not, a low block is not just to block a front kick. There must be at least 74 other applications for this move." Would this be a subtle allusion to the book "75 Down Blocks: Refining Karate Technique" by our very own Rick Clark (good book, enjoyed it a lot and learned a lot more). Bear --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Dana Vaillancourt" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:22:17 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Master Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kevin, I have found that the people who insist on the title “Master” are either brand new to the title, use it in a business sense, use it as a Do-Jang term with no real ego involved, or need the title to prop up their ego. One needs to evaluate in which group they belong. Most of the time, I see the title used by individuals who are trying to promote their business or themselves (business or personal use). Often, some people insist on the title everywhere letting the title define them (ego). To me, the true master does not use the title to refer to themselves, but others may use it, particularly peers. In my opinion, the title “Master” is one of the greatest detriments to advanced training. You have not “mastered” anything because you need constant maintenance training to stay where you are and continued learning to move forward in your art. Ironically, as you increase in knowledge, your body moves in the other direction! Many people sporting the “Master” title stop training with their students or working out because they are afraid to look less than perfect to their students or peers. The end result is, they get much worse and then further do less due to this same vicious cycle. If there ain’t no such thing as perfect, then a “Master” is not supposed to be perfect. If your instructor insists on a title for you, fine. I let my students know that when my instructor visits, please use the title as a courtesy to him. I, on the other hand, still have a lot of learning and growing up to do and now find the title embarrassing. Dana PS: In response to Sid, the Kukkiwon to the best of my knowledge does not “bestow” the title Master at any rank, although they refer to higher dans that way (including 9th dans). I have only seen them refer to “Grand Master” once and the context seemed to refer to the Kwan founders (Kwan Jang Nims). --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Dana Vaillancourt" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:28:41 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kwan Jyel Sul Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Brent wrote: "Kwan Jyel Sul is joint manipulation, or as it's called in the Japanese arts, Tuite. Joint locks and such. It's the basis of a lot of the motions in the older type forms - the Chon Ji Tul's which are basicly Shotokan blender forms; The Chung Do Kwan forms which are pretty much straight Shotokan forms; and the Tang Soo Do forms, which are Korean version of Karate forms." Brent. This is an interesting statement, but is the proof in historical or ethnographic documentation or just one or more individuals' interpretation of the forms movements? Some times a cigar is just a cigar. I know that basic technique is sometimes shown with practical applications (which isn't always practical) and form sets are suppose to flow, but I think that there are myriad interpretations for forms only limited by your knowledge and imagination. However, the founders' intent could have been much more basic. Dana --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest