Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 04:05:43 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #254 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Low Blocks or not? (Rick Clark) 2. Stuff along the way (J.R. West) 3. Four victims allege assault against Newmarket Tae Kwon Do instructor (Ray) 4. RE: Re: the Master's (Thomas Gordon) 5. USCDKA/Master (Frank Clay) 6. Hapkido and Children (Frank Clay) 7. Command for Salute Flags (Frank Clay) 8. kwan jyel sul (Darren and Elaine) 9. RE: "Masters"???? (Master Mark Seidel) 10. Rick Clark, Dana, et al (tkdsid@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:26:22 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Low Blocks or not? To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi John >From: john.a.mcintosh@bt.com [mailto:john.a.mcintosh@bt.com] >Brent wrote: >"Oh - Believe it or not, a low block is not just to block a >front kick. There must be at least 74 other applications for >this move." > >Would this be a subtle allusion to the book "75 Down Blocks: >Refining Karate Technique" by our very own Rick Clark (good >book, enjoyed it a lot and learned a lot more). > >Bear Clearly I can't speak for Brent - but I have known him for a number of years now and I just don't think of Brent as "subtle" so I'll guess that it was indeed a reference to my book. Thanks for the purchase and for the kind words, I appreciated it. Too often we only hear the negative stuff and we don't always hear the "nice" stuff - it's nice to hear when people have enjoyed the effort you put into a book or other project. I have gained a whole new respect level for people who write, and for those that do it as their living. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:35:59 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Stuff along the way Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with my old friend and former student, Master James Allison......Kids can learn Hapkido, and I have several who started at a young age under my wife and are now great adult players. Personally, I don't like kids....I never spoke to any of my own until they were around 12 or so, and NEVER taught one younger than that in my life, but my hat is off to those that do. During on of my more recent LEO classes, an FBI agent was chagrined to learn that the young man beating the crap out of him all night was only 14 years old. I also wasn't aware that the Chang Han ( Cheonji, TanGun, DoSan, etc, ) forms were Shotokan. Thanx to Bruce and others for understanding my situation with Dr. Kimm.....I was pointedly asked while in Korea if I wished to use the GM title, and my response was a large, loud but respectful "NO"....Dr. Kimm is the one person on this planet that can truly make me accept the unacceptable, so I defer to my mentor...just as I did about 15 years ago when he presented me my 7th dan certificate and "instructed" me to start using the title of "Master". Titles are like belts....I never heard of anyone throwing one at an enemy and having it successfully fight for him. Joint locking techniques are usually referred to as kwanjulki, which is why some folks had a hard time figuring out what was being talked about. There is one vowel in Korean that has a sound that we can neither pronounce nor spell in English, and it gets translated many ways...all of them wrong....a little change in Romanization would be in order............JRWest www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Four victims allege assault against Newmarket Tae Kwon Do instructor Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wednesday, June 15, 2005 Four victims allege assault against Newmarket Tae Kwon Do instructor By TERRY DATE Democrat Staff Writer Dover, NH NEWMARKET-- Additional sexual assault charges against a local Tae Kwon Do instructor bring the number of victims to four, all female minors. Local police filed nine charges on Tuesday against Keith M. Ingraham, 54, of 58 Schanda Drive, in Newmarket, according to Newmarket Police Chief Kevin Cyr. Ingraham was previously charged, on May 28, with aggravated felonious sexual assault and committing the offense of obscene matter, involving the same female child. He is being held on $50,000 cash or surety bail at Rockingham County jail. Charges related to the three new victims are three counts of aggravated felonious sexual assault; three counts of felonious sexual assault; one misdemeanor of sexual assault; and two misdemeanors of simple assault, said the police chief. Ingraham was scheduled to be arraigned on the new charges at 1:30 today at Exeter District Court, housed at Rockingham Courthouse in Brentwood. The incidents allegedly took place locally within the last year or so, Cyr said. Court records on the search and arrest warrant were sealed on the original charges. Town and school officials will host a community trauma forum on childhood abuse tonight at 7 at the Newmarket Town Hall auditorium. Representatives from the Sexual Assault Support Services of Portsmouth, and the Newmarket police, school and recreation department will be available to answer questions or concerns. Chief Cyr said the primary focus of the forum will be on those victimized, in general, by sexual abuse, not the criminal aspect of the current case. Police, school, recreation and other officials and staff gathered shortly after the original charges were pressed to arrange for support for students and answer questions. The forum continues this effort. The police chief said the new complaints grew out of the investigation into the original charges. Local police have interviewed dozens of people, he said. "I've had at least two people working on this continuously since day one, and at times, three or four people," he said. The investigation continues, Cyr said. "We're going to follow up every lead," he said. "We'll present a complete package to the county attorney and then he'll decide how to proceed." Asked how this case compares to others he has seen in his time at the Newmarket department, Cyr said this is bigger than usual because of the number of victims and the amount of information to sift through. The case is also bigger because of the media attention and the suspect is well known, he said. Ingraham has in recent years volunteered at Newmarket Junior Senior High School, offering an elective course in Tae Kwon Do. That program was canceled after the suspect's arrest. Ingraham has also taught Tae Kwon Do for many years at the Newmarket Recreation Department. Family members are continuing those programs. Bail conditions set at the arraignment on the original charges included no contact with Tae Kwon Do students, Newmarket elementary students and Newmarket junior-senior students. The misdemeanor was for allegedly photographing the victim's genitalia on or about May 15. Neither the misdemeanor nor the aggravated felonious sexual assault took place at the school or the community center. Police said the victim was known to the suspect. Ingraham pleaded not guilty at the arraignment, May 31. He was not represented by an attorney. Ingraham does not have a criminal history, police said. The suspect has a probable cause hearing scheduled for today as well, also at 1:30 p.m. in Exeter District Court. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: the Master's Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:03:16 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Huntley, The man that tested me for my last dahn rank refers to that particular rank as master level. As you said, that's good enough for me. When I introduce myself at seminars like the one in Jackson, it's as "Thomas Gordon." I really don't care if it's Mr., Master, Tom, or Thomas. However, at our school, the students call me Mr. or Master. Some of the people I've bumped into introduce themselves as "Master So-N-So." I find this odd. Their momma didn't name them master. The more appropriate thing to do (in my estimation) would be to refer to themselves by their given name, surname and then something to the effect of, "I'm a master instructor in XXX art." To me, that doesn't sound nearly as presumptuously as "My name is 'master'..." As I've said earlier, in the grand scheme of things, such as coming home to my family, titles and accolades are of little significance. However, a few points to consider. 1 - When my father talks to his friends and call them by their given name, I'm not foolish enough to think it's okay for me to. After all, he's forty years older than I am and his friends are likely to be close to his age. If Grandmaster Adams wants to call Grandmaster Smith by his first name, that doesn't mean it's okay for me to because I'm just a peon next to them. Kinda like when a Colonel calls another Colonel by his name. That doesn't mean the young Captain should pipe up do the same. He is their junior in both age and rank. 2 - The KMA groups get little respect from many of the Japanese arts. And we wonder why when we have some of our lower dahn ranks calling KMA grandmasters by their given name like a bunch of unsophisticated and ill-bred swine. If I were you, I'd keep my given name that my parents picked out and accept that my instructor has deemed me fit to be called a master instructor. It's an honor and should be humbling (as in, "I got a LOT to learn to fill those pants") more than anything...at least to me. Hope that helps. Just my take on things. Thomas Gordon Florida -----Original Message----- From: Adam D. Huntley [mailto:aahuntley@msn.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 2:13 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: the Master's I originally started this string just to see the different reactions. I'll be receiving my "master" title July 2nd in Seattle, and I'm not totally comfortable with being called master at age 32. When asked my instructor, who will be testing for his 8th degree at this event, says "because I say you are." That statement is good enough for me, but I have family in other TKD orgs where the master rank is a bit higher, ATA 6th degree - USTF 7th degree, with myself at 5th degree I feel I need to defend myself. Sorry of this has been hashed out before, I'm fairly new to the forum. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:04:09 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] USCDKA/Master Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kevin, I disagree. First there is no Korean term such as Master nor Grandmaster. These are western renditions, or better approximations of Asiatic concepts. A master in my mind is one who wears his belt around his heart and is very painfully aware of his/her shortcomings. It is not an ego thing and the true master is a permanent student. >From my humble experience rank does not matter. No matter what cert or training some have there is a portion that just won't get it. But I disagree with someone selling anything that makes them a master. More than a rank, it is something that has to grow from within. Nothing can speed that process. Sad really. Frank --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:05:20 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido and Children Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, Hapkid is and has been taught in the Republic of Korea to Children. Some of those kids are fearsome. f. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:07:20 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Command for Salute Flags Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jason, Kukki Bae Rae. And the TSD method is to use either the hand or fist over the heart. At the command of Barot, the hand sharply returns to the side. And don't forget, the US flag in the US should be higher than any other flag according to proper etiquette. FRank --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Darren and Elaine" To: Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:56:39 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] kwan jyel sul Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi just add something to the mix in Kuk Sool Won we have Kwan Juhl ki (joint locking techniques) plus lots of other techniques. Darren. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Master Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] "Masters"???? Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:16:32 -0400 Organization: The Midtown Academy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Or people that can't seem to earn the title; would rather see them not used at all? Mark Seidel -----Original Message----- From: Ray [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 9:55 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] "Masters"???? > ... the question still remains, who is it that > continues to make such a pointed issue about titles? Bruce, that would seem to be you... and those that insist on having Master or Grandmaster as part of their name or 'signature'. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:18:15 -0400 From: tkdsid@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Rick Clark, Dana, et al Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To all the naysayers that say its impossible to regulate martial arts, I submit this. Korea, China, Japan, Australia, Malaysia etc. ALL regulate martial arts. They said Universities and law schools couldn't be regulated in this country. They also said its impossible to have a US currency. No, its not impossible at all. Each college is different, but all have minimum standards. Accredited colleges recognize each others degrees. So what's the problem? Here's the issue and there is ONLY one issue. Things aren't bad enough yet. There haven't been enough people ripped off, enough kids abused, enough serious injuries in the dojangs and dojos of America. When that happens and the law suits mount, then and only then will there be regulation. Then we will have a definition for Master and Grand Master. Until then, silly men will invent dans, there own styles and continue the nonsense we have today. Another reason we don't have regulation is that many fear there schools will close and they will loose rank. Yes, there is always grandfathering and catch-up time for masters to get high school diplomas, have there dojangs pass Health Department investigations and for them to get their business in order. But if I were selling dans over the internet, accepting kukkiwon fees and not delivering or claiming 10th dan at age 25...you bet I'D worry! Sid --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest