Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 03:03:40 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #266 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Children , HapkiDo & even Tae kwon-Do! (C. Bonner) 2. Gedo Chang (SlaneSavage) 3. A Secret Deal to Keep Taekwondo Alive as an Olympic Event? (Ray) 4. Taekwondo Federation Merger Talks (Ray) 5. Two Koreas to hold talks for taekwondo coalition (Ray) 6. WTF Has Guarded Optimism on Olympic Taekwondo (Ray) 7. Re: Sheesh!!!!! (tim walker) 8. Re: Sheesh!!!!! (Ray) 9. Kids and Bowing to the uniform (Gladewater SooBahkDo) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "C. Bonner" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:25:27 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Children , HapkiDo & even Tae kwon-Do! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net       Maybe we should refrase the question and ask, At what age do you start children, on the full & complete H.K.D. curriculum?? Not just a few rolls, throws, etc.  I  personally do not let anyone start the Hapkido program unless they are at least 15 years old. In my opinion Hapkido is just to hard on the joints, bones,ligaments,etc. for children.  My students younger than 15 are in the Classical Tae kwon-Do program. f.Y.I., I also do not teach anyone below 9, As i also teach a complete T.K.D. curriculum. And as us old school dinosaurs know, even T.K.D. is more than just punching and kicking!! Flame away! Clint Bonner --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:17:52 +0100 (BST) From: SlaneSavage To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Gedo Chang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Grandmaster Gedo Chang, 8th Dan Hapkido is visiting our dojang in the UK, have any of you guys met or trained with GM. Thanks Slane --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PCcalling worldwide with voicemail --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] A Secret Deal to Keep Taekwondo Alive as an Olympic Event? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A Secret Deal to Keep Taekwondo Alive as an Olympic Event? JUNE 23, 2005 06:04 by Hwan Soo Zang The Dong-A Ilbo Last month, when Kim Un-yong resigned from his International Olympic Committee post, rumors abounded that pressure of some sort forced Kim to step down or Kim was guaranteed "impunity." An article scheduled to be published in the July issue of the Joongang Monthly but later deleted delved into an alleged "three-way big deal" between Kim, Cheong Wa Dae, and IOC president Jacques Rogge. However, Cheong Wa Dae flatly denied such accusations on Tuesday, saying, "It is true that chief presidential secretary Kim Woo-sik, a close friend of the former IOC vice president, paid a visit to the hospitalized Kim with Korea Olympic Committee president Kim Jung-kil in early May. However, Kim was not promised a release on parole." Despite Cheong Wa Dae's explanation, suspicion remains. How far is it true? The Point of Kim's Resignation- Arrested in January last year, Kim continued his clemency campaign as recently as May 7 by writing to Rogge through his daughter Hye-won, an international attorney. He submitted a petition to the government, offering to take the lead in keeping taekwondo an Olympic event and winning Pyeongchang's bid for the 2014 Winter Games. Meanwhile, Kim warned the IOC that he would go public with the so-called "Kim Un-yong List." Rather abruptly, however, in a letter postmarked on May 9 and delivered to the IOC on May 20, Kim wrote that he would step down from his IOC post. Kim, for some reason, had decided to put an end to his 16-month-long "struggle" in just two days. Possibility of External Intervention- When this correspondent visited Kim on May 23 at the Seoul Detention Center, he expressed hopes for parole. He hoped for leniency so that he could recover his health and said, "What could an ill, old man do now?" Moreover, according to Cheong Wa Dae, KOC president Kim Jung-kil suggested that Kim resign during his visit in early May and said, "The government might consider leniency such as release on parole." Kim Jung-kil's Ambiguity- Kim Jung-kil said in his inauguration interview in March, "The world of international sports, if not the Korean sports arena, needs IOC vice president Kim Un-yong." However, on April 13 at Madrid, Spain, during the Taekwondo World Championships, Kim Jung-kil denounced Kim Un-yong, saying, "[Kim] should disappear for our national interest." Two days later, on April 15, Kim Jung-kil flew to Lausanne, Switzerland and heard from Rogge that keeping taekwondo an Olympic event would be difficult. Possibility of Collusion Between Korean Government and Rogge- Joongang Monthly claims that Rogge promised Kim Jung-kil to support keeping taekwondo an Olympic event, having Pyeongchang host the winter games, and appointing another Korean to the IOC to succeed Kim Un-yong. However, the secretary-general for international affairs of the 2014 Pyeongchang winter Olympics bidding board and IOC expert Yoon Kang-ro thinks otherwise. "Even if words to that effect were exchanged between the two, there is no chance that Rogge, known as "Mr. Clean," joined forces with the Korean government in a collusion that distorts IOC's votes," said Yoon. Representative Ahn Min-seok, chairman of the Uri party's special committee on sports, complained of a lack of strategies, saying, "The government failed to use Kim Un-yong's resignation as a bargaining chip to keep taekwondo on the list of Olympic events." Taekwondo in Danger- With the vote on repealing Olympic events--scheduled for July 8 at the general meeting in Singapore--only about two weeks away, a sense of crisis is dominant. Some even say that Kim Un-yong should not have resigned voluntarily. Instead, goes their claim, if Kim were forced out of his post by the general meeting vote on July 7 that would have made it more likely for taekwondo to remain an Olympic event, following an "unsaid rule" in the IOC that "one nation shall not suffer more than one disadvantage." --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Taekwondo Federation Merger Talks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Taekwondo Federation Merger Talks Wednesday, June 22, 2005 Taekwondo at the Athens Olympics. (ATR) (ATR) Talks that could lead to a merger of two of the international federations representing taekwondo will take place next week. The IOC-recognized World Taekwondo Federation and rival International Taekwondo Federation meet in Beijing. The merger could end part of the confusion over worldwide administration and development of the sport, which is represented by three organizations, two going by the name of International Taekwondo Federation. The ITF involved in talks with the WTF is headed by IOC member Un Chang of North Korea. The WTF, the federation responsible for Olympic taekwondo, is based in Seoul and has been embarking on a reform program as part of efforts to keep its position secure on the Olympic program. Discussions have been held on merging the federations on other occasions. The ITF is older than the WTF, but with the WTF headed in the 1990's by then-powerful (and now ex-) IOC member Un Yong Kim, the Seoul federation won the IOC imprimatur to be the federation of record for the martial art. It made its Olympics debut in 2000. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Two Koreas to hold talks for taekwondo coalition Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Two Koreas to hold talks for taekwondo coalition Yonhap News SEOUL, June 21 (Yonhap) -- The South and North Korean world governing bodies of the Olympic sport taekwondo will soon begin negotiating plans for their integration, said officials from the South Korean side Tuesday. "The North Korean governing body accepted our proposal to meet at a Beijing hotel on June 27," Kang Seok-jae, director of the public relations division of the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF), told Yonhap News Agency. "They agreed to accept our proposal in a letter that arrived yesterday." Their North Korean compatriots, the International Taekwondo Federation (ITF), initially sent an official note to the WTF on June 8, proposing a one-day meeting in the Chinese capital sometime this month to arrange their integration, said Kang. The WTF offered a revised proposal that designated the Swiss Hotel on June 27 as the venue and date of the meeting, and named three of its members who would attend, the officials said. Heads of the two governing bodies met during the Daegu Universiade held here in 2003 and reached an agreement to start talks on fusing the two bodies, but they failed to materialize. Two previous meetings to unite the two bodies, one in Vancouver in 1982 and another in the Austrian city of Vienna in 1985, also failed to bear fruit. The WTF was inaugurated in Seoul in 1973 and now has a membership stretching to 179 national associations, while the ITF was launched seven years earlier, also in the South Korean capital. ITF founder Choi Hong-hi was later exiled to Canada and named North Korean International Olympic Committee member Chang Ung as his successor in 2002 prior to his death. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF Has Guarded Optimism on Olympic Taekwondo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net WTF Has Guarded Optimism on Olympic Taekwondo By Shim Jae-yun The Korea Times Sports Editor Choue Chung-won, president of the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF), has expressed guarded optimism over whether the Korean martial art will retain its status as an Olympic sport for the 2012 Olympic Games and beyond. ``We are doing our best and will patiently wait for the outcome with a humble mind,'' Choue said in a recent exclusive interview with The Korea Times. The 117th Session of the International Olympic Committee will conduct a sport-by-sport secret vote on July 8 to determine the fate of taekwondo and 27 other Olympic sports for the 2012 Olympic program. A sport will automatically be eliminated from the Olympic program if it fails to earn more than 50 percent of total votes. The IOC Session will be held in Singapore. Karate and four other sports under consideration by the IOC for inclusion in the 2012 Olympic program are actively striving to become official Olympic sports by seeking the support of many of the 116 IOC members. Karate is currently divided into two international bodies, the World Karate Federation led by a Spaniard and the International Traditional Karate Federation headed by a Japanese national. Baseball, softball and the modern pentathlon have been officially cited as Olympic sports most likely to be excluded while golf, rugby and karate have been fiercely endeavoring to be listed on the 2012 Olympic program. ``Now there are some 60 million taekwondo practitioners around the world in 179 nations and the number is expected to surge to 100 million in the near future if we have good results from the Singapore IOC Session,'' Choue said in the interview at his WTF office in southern Seoul. He said an increasing number of WTF member nations have shown support for taekwondo, including some 30 countries that won at least one medal in taekwondo competitions at the previous two Olympic Games. ``They will surely cast 'yes' votes for our sport.'' Choue took office as the WTF head in June last year to cover the remaining duties of his disgraced predecessor Kim Un-yong and was reelected to a four-year term as the new president in April this year. But he has yet to hold an official inauguration ceremony, as he has been engrossed in efforts to have the Korean traditional martial art retained as an Olympic sport. The WTF held its Executive Council meeting at the IOC Headquarters in Lausanne, Switzerland, on March 10, to become the first international sport federation to hold such a meeting at the IOC main building. In addition, the WTF and the International Taekwondo Federation (ITF) held a meeting to seek common ground on technical aspects of the two bodies at the IOC Headquarters with the attendance of IOC President Jacques Rogge. ``This clearly shows the strong support by the IOC leadership for the WTF,'' Choue said. Criticism had been growing over the alleged partiality of judges and lack of reform efforts in taekwondo circles before Choue took office. ``The series of reform programs by the WTF are not just for the 2012 Olympic Games. They are designed to ensure the perpetual prosperity of the sport,'' Choue said. Along with triathlon, taekwondo was first included as an Olympic sport in the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games. The WTF set up its Reform Committee in November last year and came up with a package of recommendations. The WTF General Assembly approved a ``Strategic Plan'' and a 188-page-long reform report at its General Assembly in Madrid in April this year. The reform programs are mainly aimed at making taekwondo more dynamic and attractive while making the federation more globalized, transparent and efficient. With the goal of ensuring fairness in refereeing and judgment, the federation will set up an ad-hoc committee to review technical matters related to electronic protectors by late June and hold a demonstration on July 20. The competition length for men's competition was shortened to two minutes from three minutes per round while the ``sudden death'' system was introduced in case of a tied contest. The size of the competition area will also be shrunk and more points will be given for contestants employing difficult techniques, according to the reform recommendations. Sports marketing, largely neglected in the past, will be actively pursued to ensure the permanent development of taekwondo. For this reason, the federation signed a four-year partnership contract with Samsung Electronics in March this year. Choue said the organization will usher in a renaissance of taekwondo if it achieves a good result in the Singapore session. ``Our efforts will be concentrated on expanding the base of taekwondo mainly in less developed nations in Africa and Latin America. Although many people in such areas want to practice taekwondo, they cannot do so due to a lack of taekwondo equipment and gymnasiums.'' ``So we plan to provide them with such necessities in cooperation with business companies,'' he said. Turning to personal matters, Choue, who served as president of Kyung Hee University in Seoul, said he hardly has any spare time due to his busy schedule as WTF leader. Over the past year, he has spent more than a quarter of his time abroad. ``I believe taekwondo is 'Korea's gift to the world.' It is not merely a sport, but an excellent cultural aspect with great potential for growth,'' he said. Regarding former WTF president Kim, who also served as a vice IOC president, Choue said, ``There is an old saying in China. Never forget the figure who did the digging when you drink the well water.'' ``Kim is the very person who made taekwondo what it is today.'' ``And we should not forget the efforts of taekwondo masters who dared to go abroad to teach the martial art from the 1960s despite many difficulties. Due to their endeavors, taekwondo has taken off around the globe,'' he said. He expressed an intention to visit North Korea to discuss ways of promoting taekwondo jointly with the International Taekwondo Federation. ``Although it is not a proper time to go there, I think it is necessary to closely cooperate with the North with respect to competition methods and regulations. Working-level officials from the two organizations will meet in Beijing, China, on June 27 to discuss ways of solidifying cooperation and activating exchanges. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "tim walker" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sheesh!!!!! Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:33:58 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I keep telling you guys...there is no Bruce. It's just Ray Terry trying to stir you up! <> timo "Primum non nocere" --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sheesh!!!!! To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I keep telling you guys...there is no Bruce. It's just Ray Terry trying to > stir you up! Drat! Foiled again... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:58:06 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kids and Bowing to the uniform Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been reading post and I would like to reply to two separate threads. First- Kids training. Although I do not teach Hapkido. We in Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan do teach Ho Shin sool. I am one of those instructors that sometimes take things to the extreme, some say to extreme, but I teach the same locks and throws to the children as I do to the Adults. If you run your school with discipline, and a strict military structure it can be done. The leader of our organization Grandmaster HC Hwang received his dan rank at the age of 9 years old from his father Grandmaster Hwang Kee the founder of the Moo Duk Kwan during the early 1950's. I have heard him talk about his early training and he was not treated as a child, just another student. I have several student that are cho dans and E-Dans that are in there teens and early twenties. The all began as young children and are now very good Dans with good moral character, and the skill they need to defend themselves. Even against grown Adults. I spared nothing in there training. The luxury they may have had was training with people of their own size and strength. Second- I read a recent post that mentioned not bowing outside the do-jang. Let me ask a question? Why do we bow at all? Most will agree it is to show respect. To bow to your instructor, senior, or fellow student at the do-jang is a great show of respect, but if you do not show the same respect outside the do-jang you are (by your actions) only showing respect to the uniform. I have never bowed to a uniform hanging on a hanger. I bow to the person I respect. That respect does not end at the do-jang door. If I see my instructor at the mall for example I will stop and bow. It is not about what other may think. It is about a personal relationship between me and my instructor, or student. It is for this same reason I do not address my instructor differently outside the do-jang. Kris Poole Sa Bom Nim is my instructor, I address him as Sa Bom Nim becasue I respect him. to call him Kris would in a since put us one the same level. Although we are both equal as humans he is my senior, and my instructor and I will show him that respect In or out of uniform. In or out of the Do-Jang. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest