Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 03:04:15 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #269 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Hapkido in Japan (tim walker) 2. cardio kick boxing (Darren and Elaine) 3. ITF/WTF merger (Donne Flanagan) 4. Re: Cardio Kick Boxing (Ray) 5. ATO Invitational Chip (Ray) 6. Re: ITF/WTF merger (Neil Burton) 7. RE: Cardio Kick Boxing (Thomas Gordon) 8. Bowing (Lois Knorr) 9. 55 years ago (Ray) 10. RE: ITF/WTF merger (Rick Clark) 11. itf or kukki forms (Tkdsid@aol.com) 12. RE: Hapkido in Japan (Kevin F. Donohue) 13. Re: Hapkido in Japan (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "tim walker" To: Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:24:35 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido in Japan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey, Brent. I, for one, am certainly not ignoring you. I just have no clue. If you're ever in Northern Virginia, though... timo "Primum non nocere" --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Darren and Elaine" To: Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 14:07:22 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] cardio kick boxing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Just one thing WHY would anybody start cardio kick boxing? Darren --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Donne Flanagan" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF/WTF merger Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:07:52 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Before people get too excited, it's important to note that the ITF world has been severely splintered since Gen. Choi's death (even before then, I'm sure many would argue). These talks are with the North Korea based organization that claims to be "the" ITF. However there are also the other organizations that make the same claim, one based in Vienna and one based in Canada (run by Gen. Choi's son) -- did I miss any? Then there's the Global Taekwon-Do Federation that split in the early 90s, the relatively new Unified ITF, the ITA, etc., etc. As well there schools who teach ITF-style TKD who say to hell with them all and are unaffilliated with anyone. I'm also sure there are plenty on this list who could go on (especially as I am less familiar with the various Kwan organizations who may or may not consider themselves within the broad TKD family). So, if the merger were to happen, I doubt we would have one single happy TKD world. I think this has more to do with the Olympics than TKD unity. Besides, in my humble opinion, I would doubt very much that many ITF-style schools would abandon whole chunks of their pattern repertoire, or the sine-wave element that is core to its techniques, which is not taught in WTF/Kukkiwon. Interesting developments, nonetheless. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cardio Kick Boxing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Im about to start teaching Cardio Kick Boxing a my local YMCA, does anyone > have advice to teaching techniques, or music to play during classes? I hate to be such a Bruce... but why are you just thinking of this now? You're about to start teaching something that you know nothing about??? I realize that programs such as this can be big $$makers for McDojangs, but we shouldn't be teaching things were aren't already very familiar with. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] ATO Invitational Chip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net American Tae Kwon Do Organization ATO Invitational Championship Saturday, August 6 8AM Concordia University - Sports Arena 1530 Concordia West Irvine, CA http://www.cui.edu Entry form deadline: July 25 More info: Jimmy Hong @ 949.551.2200 --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:10:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Burton Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] ITF/WTF merger To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hhhmmm "Besides, in my humble opinion, I would doubt very much that many ITF-style schools would abandon whole chunks of their pattern repertoire, or the sine-wave element that is core to its techniques, which is not taught in WTF/Kukkiwon." And I wonder (as an ITF practioner) where the compromise will be. I suspect that many people from the WTF world will take a similiar attitude to the above, whilst many ITF people will take the same attitude, but from the ITF standpoint (i.e. expect WTF to adopt ITF tuls as well as using WTF poomse). I for one prefer the ITF tuls, which is one reason why I practice ITF - the WTF poomse just don't seem so elegant (well the coloured belt poomse anyway) Taekwon Neil --- Donne Flanagan wrote: > Before people get too excited, it's important to > note that the ITF world has > been severely splintered since Gen. Choi's death > (even before then, I'm sure > many would argue). > > These talks are with the North Korea based > organization that claims to be > "the" ITF. However there are also the other > organizations that make the same > claim, one based in Vienna and one based in Canada > (run by Gen. Choi's son) -- > did I miss any? Then there's the Global Taekwon-Do > Federation that split in > the early 90s, the relatively new Unified ITF, the > ITA, etc., etc. As well > there schools who teach ITF-style TKD who say to > hell with them all and are > unaffilliated with anyone. I'm also sure there are > plenty on this list who > could go on (especially as I am less familiar with > the various Kwan > organizations who may or may not consider themselves > within the broad TKD > family). > > So, if the merger were to happen, I doubt we would > have one single happy TKD > world. I think this has more to do with the Olympics > than TKD unity. > > Besides, in my humble opinion, I would doubt very > much that many ITF-style > schools would abandon whole chunks of their pattern > repertoire, or the > sine-wave element that is core to its techniques, > which is not taught in > WTF/Kukkiwon. > > Interesting developments, nonetheless. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Cardio Kick Boxing Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:35:22 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. McDonald, I don't teach Cardio Kickboxing and have little interest in it so I'm of no use. For the rest of you nay sayers, what's wrong with Cardio Kickboxing?! I don't consider kick boxing a martial art and more than I consider offering a weight training a martial art. The man has to a right to make a living and he's meeting a market demand. People want to get in shape and bored with aerobics, pilates, running...whatever. So they do cardio kickboxing for a while. Power to them for staying in shape and the fella savvy enough to meet the demand. Hope he gets a new car outta the deal. Now if he suggested he was teaching a martial art like Hand-to-Hand Taebo or Combat Pilates or Dim-Mak Cardio Kickboxing....then yeah, let the nay saying begin. This is a great profit center for those that have the time, space, and drive to maximize their profits. And before I get hung out for being a sale out, we teach traditional taekwondo and working on offering hapkido. We have no contracts, expensive programs, upsales, or anything like that. We are fortunate enough that my wife can do this full time and without the corporate pressures that commercial schools or mcdojos requires. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:40:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Lois Knorr To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Bowing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gladewater SooBahkDo said: “…These type of people do not earn my respect…The issue is not about showing them respect, Its about showing them the respect they have earned.” Once at a dance recital, a friend of mine introduced someone to me as the father of ‘Mary’ and an Aikido instructor. I stood up and bowed to him. Another time, I was stretching while waiting for my Kobudo class to start. Three men walked in. I turned and bowed to the man in the centre. Why? Because in both cases, I sensed that the person was ‘senior to me’. When I was a yellow belt, I went to my first TKD tournament. A number of people came up to talk to my instructor as I sat beside him. Then someone came up to talk to him and I immediately stood up and bowed to him. After he left, I asked my instructor who he was. He replied, “That was Grandmaster K.H. Min, head of Alberta TKD.” On the other hand, there is a second dan black belt in my school to whom I bow out of respect to my instructor rather than out of respect to him. Even though I am just barely a black belt and he has had a black belt for a number of years, I do not consider him ‘senior to me’. I bow to him in the dojang because my instructor has told me to bow to all black belts when in the dojang. Generally, if I have been told that someone is at a higher level in martial arts, I prefer to show them respect until they lose it. (In the case of the garish uniform…and perhaps what they project through their movements and interaction with others…these so-called grandmasters have already lost their right to respect?) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] 55 years ago Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 55 years ago today, on a rainy Sunday @ 4:00 AM the Korean War begins when the North invades the South. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:58:08 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] ITF/WTF merger To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From: Neil Burton [mailto:neil_burton37@yahoo.com] >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] ITF/WTF merger > I for one prefer the ITF tuls, which is one reason why I practice ITF - the WTF poomse just don't seem so elegant (well the coloured belt poomse anyway) > >Taekwon > >Neil Then there are some of us who prefer the older Pyung-ahn Hyung - the only way you could satisfy all of the divergent groups is to allow them to use the forms they chose - no matter if it's ITF, WTF, or the first group of Hyung taught by the various Kwan. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Tkdsid@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:47:03 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] itf or kukki forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As a WTF player I feel the ITF forms are more elegant. They remind me of my Moo Duk Kwan days in the 1960's. The issue for me is the development of a worldwide central authority that can address fraud, cheating ethics etc. Sid --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:36:34 -0400 From: "Kevin F. Donohue" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Hapkido in Japan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Try to contact the KHF at the Seoul Headquarters for the info you are seeking: Korea Hapkido Federation Attn: Bae Sung Book - Director 18-11 Rung-Dong Kwangjin-Ku Seoul 143-180 South Korea Tel : 82-2-3437-3430 Fax : 82-2-456-0953 You could also contact the WTF - Their official representatives for Japan are the "All Japan Taekwondo Association". Maybe they could guide you to a school in Tokyo or Osaka (Both large Korean populations- but many are from North Korea so be careful what you say and who you say it to). Good luck!! Kevin Donohue -----Original Message----- From: aburrese@aol.com [mailto:aburrese@aol.com] Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 12:24 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kids and HKD Klaas posted about kids learning in Korea. That may be true in some schools, but not in the schools I trained at. I say schools, because I originally trained at Kwanjangnim Kim's school, where Sabomnim Lee did much of the teaching. When Sabomnim Lee opened his own school, I trained there too. I have also trained at Sabomnin Kim's school. (this is a friend Kim Hyun, who came up the ranks with Sabomnim Lee under Kwanjangnim Kim and who opened his own school as well) I have visited other HKD schools in Korea, but primarily trained in those three places. In those schools, kids were taught the same curriculum as adults. They learned every joint lock,throw, kick, strike, etc. that adults learn. And it is true that people will get to first dan in 18-24 months in Korea. This is usually done by going to class 6 times a week. The only times anyone played games and didn't do HKD in the schools I trained at were when we had the special days where we would gather, play games, eat, and have fun. This was done outside of the dojang one or two times a year. In the dojang, yes kids ran around and played before or after class some, but during class time it was all Hapkido. It sounds like this is the way things are run at James Allison's school in the States as well, and I would think those kids are very lucky to train there. Personally, the only kid I teach right now is my daughter, and she is 15 months old. No we are not doing joint locks yet, but she does know what pal chagi means, and when I or my wife say pal chagi, she raises her leg with a little "aiee." It's pretty cute, and it is a start. Dakin mentioned the cultural differences, and I totally agree. I was just trying to make the point that with all the Korean instructors who do teach kids HKD, I think they would find it humerous, if not insulting, for an American to tell them they can't teach HKD to kids. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hapkido in Japan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Try to contact the KHF at the Seoul Headquarters for the info you are > seeking: > > Korea Hapkido Federation > Attn: Bae Sung Book - Director > 18-11 Rung-Dong > Kwangjin-Ku > Seoul 143-180 > South Korea > Tel : 82-2-3437-3430 > Fax : 82-2-456-0953 fwiw, I don't think Master Bae is that involved with KHF operations these days. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest