Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 10:35:44 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #280 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: itf/wtf wish list (Christopher Spiller) 2. RE: Jon Payne bowing (Jon Payne) 3. Rebuttal to MAster Maldanando (Frank Clay) (Robert Martin) 4. RE: Gen. Choi & The DPRK (C. Bonner) 5. Hankido DVD (Klaas Barends) 6. Master M (Frank Clay) 7. Culture Icon (Ray) 8. Re: Hankido DVD (Jye nigma) 9. website (Jye nigma) 10. Re: Rebuttal to MAster Maldanando (Frank Clay) (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 20:06:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: itf/wtf wish list Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sid said: > I wish the following: that a merger DOES take place, > that brand new 21st > century forms be created that are not horseback or > sword based, What do you mean? Which TKD forms are horseback or sword based? > that therre be a > heavy increase in hand technique, In what sense? In free sparring? In other training aspects? (Actually in ITF free sparring there are a lot of hand techniques - and they actually score points, too.) that full > body armor AND padded > gloves, helmut and padded foot gear be worn so that > one could whale away without > worry, Why not just do that in class during sparring or have it as a division in the tournaments you hold? and that itf/wtf reach out to moo duk > kwan/tang soo do/soo bahk do > for them to join this new confederation, This was already tried, actually. Frankly, Hwang Kee didn't want to joing TKD but rather to have his own style. More power to him, I say. If you want to unite all TKD that's one thing, but Hwang Kee visualized his TSD/SBD-MDK to be a separate art, it seems to me. > that taekwondo > vs. karate tournaments be held liberally. They are. I've been to *many* open tournaments (some good, some bad) where karate, TKS, TSD, kung-fu, etc. all competed against each other. > Am I > asking too much??? I don't know if it's too much, I'm just not sure it's *necessary*. Taekwon, Chris > Sid ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Jon Payne" To: "The_Dojang" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Jon Payne bowing Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 22:12:43 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>Good Sir, Glad I got your attention. Being part of a martial art is kind of like "getting religion" You can't act one way IN church and another OUT of church. They have words for those kinds of people.:) Respectfully, George>> I'm sorry, but I don't believe your analogy applies here. If it did, you violated it with your attempt to "get my attention." My post was not in anyway a flame. Courtesies are courtesies. I can show respect without bowing outside the dojang. I don't want to be bowed to outside the dojang. End of Story... Jon David Payne --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Robert Martin" To: Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 21:53:08 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Rebuttal to MAster Maldanando (Frank Clay) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Clay, Some corrections for you. Firstly, to establish myself. My grandmaster is Charles E. Sereff. He is one of the few people in the world that could call Choi Hong Hi his instructor. Much of what I have learned about the history of the ITF I received directly from GM Sereff. He was there starting in 1966 when he first me Gen. Choi. Gen. Choi was retired by the government from the military in the early 1960's (1961 I believe) as a major general in the ROK army. He was appointed to Ambassdor to Malyasia from Sourth Korea in 1962. In 1966 the ITF was created to spread TKD around the world at the direction (and to clean up some personality problems at home) by the Sourth Korean government. At that time Choi Hong Hi left government service. In 1980 Gen. Choi led a group of instructors to North Korea. Chuck Sereff was one of the instructors to go on that trip. (Another friend of mine, Kasimir Brusar now living in Washington DC, also made the trip). During 1978 or 1979, Gen. Choi made his first trip back to North Korea to visit his brother. By that time he was already a Canadian citizen and not under any orders of South Korea. I agree with you that the ITF is dead. It was the creation of one man and didn't survive his passing. However, it doesn't change the value of ITF TKD. Interestingly, the WTF is moving BACK to its roots with the changes in rules to more resemble ITF sparring. We also here so much about Kukki TKD regaining its moral positions -- again already in place via ITF TKD. Ultimately, there will be a merger, of sorts, between the ITF-NK and WTF. ITF-NK is most likely the largest of the ITF factions and still has support of many native Koreans. Frankly, the WTF/Kukkiwon has wanted to do nothing BUT change history. "Taekwon-Do is a 2000 year old martial art." How many web sites still make that absurd statement. Robert Martin V Dan, USTF > Message: 5 > From: "Frank Clay" > To: > Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 07:16:58 -0500 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Rebuttal to MAster Maldanando > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Sir, > > With all due respect... > > Genera Choi who WAS a Major General in the ROK violated orders and went to > the DPRK during a time when this action was wholly inappropriate. Second, > the ITF has a strong following in the DPRK because of Choi's actions and > this is why it is considered by some to be property of the DPRK. > > For all intents and purposes the ITF is considered by many to be dead. You > may be Oh Do Kwan and you may be loyal to the ITF but that cannot change > history nor current events. Be proud of your roots but let's be honest > here. > > Regards, > Frank > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1159 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "C. Bonner" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 23:31:24 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Gen. Choi & The DPRK Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Message: 5 >From: "Frank Clay" >To: >Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 07:16:58 -0500 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Rebuttal to MAster Maldanando >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Sir, > >With all due respect... > >Genera Choi who WAS a Major General in the ROK violated orders and went to >the DPRK during a time when this action was wholly inappropriate. Second, >the ITF has a strong following in the DPRK because of Choi's actions and >this is why it is considered by some to be property of the DPRK. > >For all intents and purposes the ITF is considered by many to be dead. You >may be Oh Do Kwan and you may be loyal to the ITF but that cannot change >history nor current events. Be proud of your roots but let's be honest here. > >Regards, >Frank I don't mean to quibble, But!!  Gen. Choi went to the DPRK, in 1980. Not only was he not an officer of the ROK Army any longer, he was not even living in the ROK at the time. It is well documented! He also took well respected Korean and American masters with him.  He was from, what is now North Korea, and from what i understand, still has family there. I honestly do not see were he violated anything! Thank's, Clint --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Klaas Barends Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 20:29:12 +0900 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hankido DVD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To anyone who is interested. A while ago I asked if people would have some great tips when putting together a martial-arts DVD. Well, next week our production will be send to the press, so it should be ready in about two or three weeks. I have placed a trailer online on our website: http:// www.sangmookwan.com/ Since I got a lot of help from the people of the digest, I want to do something in return. If you order a copy of the DVD in the next month, and mention the digest in your email, you will get a $5.00 discount. (which actually means that for the people in the US the DVD will be send for free, we will pay the shipping fee for you) -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ Dutch HKD Federation http://www.sangmookwan.com/ SangMooKwan International Training Center Korea --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:08:30 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master M Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Maldanado, No offense taken here and please be clear, I meant no offense to you. I too learned many of the pre-sine wave hyung; however, I no longer practice them. I understand the theory behind them; however, I don't believe it to be effective. While the intent would be to include all body dynamics into the strike, I don'[t believe that in being so fluid (in the knees) that we are talking about something that has true combat efficiency. Of course, I could be wrong and it certainly would not be the first time either. On another topic, we have any list members in N. California? San Francisco area? Thanks, Frank --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Culture Icon Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Taekwondo Should Be Reborn as Culture Icon Oh Kyung-ho Looks to Broadening Taekwondo's Global Appeal 7/3/2005 By Kim Hyun-cheol Staff Reporter The Korea Times In spite of the brouhaha over the fate of taekwondo, it does sound overreacting to talk about the possibility that the sport could lose its status as a competitive event at the Summer Olympics. However, the recent circumstances, ignited by a bribery scandal of former IOC vice president Kim Un-yong, gives us at least something to think about its present role as well as the future of taekwondo. After the fall of the former International Olympic Committee vice president and tycoon of the sport, taekwondo is confronting a whole new transition period of consolidating its ground. Oh Kyung-ho, chairman of Chungcheong University, is one of those who argue on some fundamental changes in taekwondo. Despite his confidence over the future of the nation's traditional martial art, he suggests there should be a big transition in taekwondo from merely a competitive sport to a significant source for cultural promotion and spiritual discipline. Things still look optimistic for taekwondo's future in the Summer Olympics as many experts share the view the sport will get a majority of votes at next week's IOC general assembly in Singapore. Dubbed the national sport for such a long time, however, has it performed its country-representative successfully? Oh's questions are challenging and even provoking. "About what is called 'the crisis of taekwondo,' of late, we all got it coming for ourselves," he said. "Strictly speaking, I can say we haven't have anything to be proud of as the suzerain country of the sport as we boast." His criticism on the reality is sharp and severe, but also a hit between the eyes. "For example, Kukkiwon, the national taekwondo center, still doesn't have a decent dressing room for women. We don't even have enough books on the sport, let alone related historical sites. It's embarrassing to admit, but our infrastructure on taekwondo is simply disastrous." Are his criticisms a bit too much? Are his recommendations easier said than done? They might be, but his comments are more than just the nay saying of a casual observer. His school, Chungcheong University, has become a powerhouse in the taekwondo field in a short period, by hosting the World Taekwondo Festival since 1998. So far, more than 8,000 people participated in the festival. This year's event will be held in Changhua, Taiwan, July 4-8, and is the first overseas event in its 7-year history. Some 600 taekwondo fans and athletes from 25 countries will join the event and the co-hosted tournament of the 2005 Changhua Open. In addition to the tournament, activities such as academic seminars on taekwondo, exhibitions and other cultural events are planned. Taiwanese President Chen Shuibian will deliver a speech on the opening day as a special guest. "We will hold more events in foreign countries in the future,'' Oh said. "Already, several countries are interested in hosting the next event.'' To him, the most important thing in taekwondo's worldwide promotion is to extract it from a 'narrow nationalism.' "We've been depending too much on the idea that we should be leading the world in taekwondo since we're the home country. Thus, we could win more medals on the international stage, but also this turns away lots of enthusiasm from the world outside as much. It's nothing but a crude way of self complacence," he said. That is one big reason for reducing its excitement as a competing sport as well, according to him. "That kind of attitude has somewhat changed the style of most Korean taekwondo athletes for the worse," Oh said. "At international tournaments, they just focus on defense and look to earn points by countering. That significantly makes their matches much less aggressive, even boring most of the time. "In a wider point of view, as we give away our 'vested interests' we will get other things in return," he added. His attention is set on something different. "Our aim is to develop taekwondo as a cultural content in order to promote it worldwide, something more than merely as sport, and ultimately make a big global community in the name of taekwondo," he said. According to Oh, the Korean-born martial art is one of the most suitable items to be combined with "hallyu," or the Korean wave. He said that both can produce a synergy effect in promoting the national image, in a combined form of cultural and spiritual facets. In that regard, he doesn't hesitate in showing his opposition to the national policy focusing on garnering medals in the international tournaments like Olympics, saying: "In a way, it's something for the select few. There should be a field for its pure fans without competitive intents. That's why we started to host the World Taekwondo Festival." For that purpose, we need to develop more taekwondo content, he assures. "Many foreign taekwondo lovers believe they can see experience next to everything about it, but the reality is quite opposite," Oh remarked. "Currently few products can be found with regard to taekwondo with all the potential it has. "There are more areas we can cover with it such as character, mobile games, sports fashion, movies and tour programs. It is our work to turn the ideas into something tangible," he added. Another big focus of his attention is on the effect taekwondo has as a spiritual discipline. He says the spirit is closely related to Confucianism and thus can be a good educational instrument. And he says it comes from two things, "respect," and "discipline." "I've heard many times that learning taekwondo did good for children overseas in forming their character. In South American countries, for example, it is reported many youngsters started to respect their parents and treat them better," Oh stressed. He took another reference at the Athens Olympics. "Korean people were excited when Moon Dae-sung won a gold medal at Athens with a brilliant roundhouse kick in the final. However, in my point of view, it is much more important and meaningful that he showed respect to his opponent and to the judges before and after the game." Currently around 80 percent of those who practice taekwondo are children and youths. In his opinion, the martial art can have a positive effect on building their characters with its stress on Confucian virtues. "I think it will be preferable for the government to include taekwondo in its children's education curriculum," Oh said. All in all, it is an ambitious and advantageous aim for him and Chungcheong University to turn taekwondo into something bigger than a Korean-led sport, and the upcoming World Taekwondo Festival is a good start for that. He expects the festival to be a big event of cultural exchange, going beyond a sports event. "As I put it earlier, our ultimate goal in taekwondo is to form a global community of taekwondo. I hope this can be a good stepping stone toward making our taekwondo dream come true," he said. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:04:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hankido DVD To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Nice! looks good. Appears to be either digital video or a high grade of film. Lighting is on point, sound is good too...good job! Jye Klaas Barends wrote: To anyone who is interested. A while ago I asked if people would have some great tips when putting together a martial-arts DVD. Well, next week our production will be send to the press, so it should be ready in about two or three weeks. I have placed a trailer online on our website: http:// www.sangmookwan.com/ Since I got a lot of help from the people of the digest, I want to do something in return. If you order a copy of the DVD in the next month, and mention the digest in your email, you will get a $5.00 discount. (which actually means that for the people in the US the DVD will be send for free, we will pay the shipping fee for you) -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ Dutch HKD Federation http://www.sangmookwan.com/ SangMooKwan International Training Center Korea _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:11:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] website Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net thanks mr martin: http://www.guardianangels.org/about.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rebuttal to MAster Maldanando (Frank Clay) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... In 1980 Gen. Choi led a group of > instructors to North Korea. Chuck Sereff was one of the instructors to go on > that trip. (Another friend of mine, Kasimir Brusar now living in Washington > DC, also made the trip). During 1978 or 1979, Gen. Choi made his first trip > back to North Korea to visit his brother. By that time he was already a > Canadian citizen and not under any orders of South Korea. Agreed. However consider what was going on between SK and NK around those years. NK killed President Park's wife and then later killed President Park. They also sent a special ops team across the boarder to try and reach the Blue House. And wasn't around this time that they also bombed and killed a SK delegation in, was it?, Indonesia. Then there was the "Tree Chopping" incident and the resulting Operation Paul Bunyan in 1976(?), etc. Short of the Korean War era, these years were some of the hottest years in North/South relations. No wonder many in the South didn't care for how Gen. Choi conducted himself toward the North. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest