Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 03:03:42 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #282 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Killing in Soo Bahk Do or other MA (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 2. Jon Payne bowing (George Peters) 3. Re: Hankido DVD (Klaas Barends) 4. THE SIMPLEST KNIFE DEFENSE (Don Kirsch) 5. Re: Re: Hankido DVD (Jye nigma) 6. Mr. Martin (Frank Clay) (Robert Martin) 7. The Art (Daniel) 8. Palgwe and Koryo - sword based? (Wicker, H. Keith) 9. very interesting website (jakskru) 10. Re: Bowing (jakskru) 11. Re: Mr. Martin (Frank Clay) (Nathan Miller) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 21:54:19 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Killing in Soo Bahk Do or other MA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read "How many people have you killied in Soo Bahk Do..." Sir I have not killed anyone, nor has my students or my instructor, but martial arts training should teach the skills you need to defend your self. Realistic self-defense training (Martial Arts) and sport training is different (Tournaments). In a tournament there is a judge and or referee, sometimes even legitament respect for the person you are fighting. Self-Defense training is not a set of techniques you memorize for a belt. The person that attacks you with a knife, or attacks your wife with intentions of rape and murder do not respect you, there is not judge with a flag, and your ability to defend yourself is rewarded with life or your loss could mean death. You missed the point, If you want to train in a recreational school I wish you the best, but if you are attacked by a real world attacker I hope your recreational ability will be enough. Respectfully JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 02:35:26 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Jon Payne bowing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir, Whatever YOU say, Sir. I'll err on the side of tradition, not personal choice. Respectfully, George --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Klaas Barends Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 16:54:34 +0900 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hankido DVD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Nice! looks good. Appears to be either digital video or a high > grade of film. Lighting is on point, sound is good too...good job! I bought a second-hand Canon XL1 digital camera at YongSan Digital market. Which is a very robust camera indeed. I had a chance to buy the software (apple: final cut pro and dvd studio pro) for educational prices. And printing a DVD in Korea is remarkably cheap ;-) We shot everything in our new gym, so when we decorated the gym we kept in mind that we were going to shoot video there. Three very bright spotlights in the ceiling did the trick for us. (btw. if you want to see how we build a gym in Korea, have a look at http://homepage.mac.com/kbarends/) The sound on the trailer I just added from a cd, but the sound on the actual dvd isn't bad at all. For people who are interested in shooting an instructional dvd in Korea, give me a call (or send an email). We have the equipment and the space to house quite a few people. You will get a nice trip to Korea, great food, a nice place to shoot your dvd. With an English speaking guide. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ Dutch HKD Federation http://www.sangmookwan.com/ SangMooKwan International Training Center Korea --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Don Kirsch" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 07:49:00 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] THE SIMPLEST KNIFE DEFENSE Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't claim to be an expert in knife fighting or knife defense...just a guy who has been studying martial arts for close to 3 decades and who has found him self in a couple of tight spots over the years(ie being some place I mostly likely should not have been). I follow the Richard Pryor school of knife defense..."If you find your self in a knife fight and all you can pull out of your pocket is a hand full of skin RUN!" That may not sound like the strategy people want to hear, not what guys in movies do or what dojang training teaches but any time you find yourself out matched if the option presents its self to extract your self do so. Its better to live to fight another day than bleed a hero. Just my opinion, regards and Happy 4th of July, Don Kirsch --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 07:33:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Hankido DVD To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Excellent...have to love today's technology right? Jye Klaas Barends wrote: > Nice! looks good. Appears to be either digital video or a high > grade of film. Lighting is on point, sound is good too...good job! I bought a second-hand Canon XL1 digital camera at YongSan Digital market. Which is a very robust camera indeed. I had a chance to buy the software (apple: final cut pro and dvd studio pro) for educational prices. And printing a DVD in Korea is remarkably cheap ;-) We shot everything in our new gym, so when we decorated the gym we kept in mind that we were going to shoot video there. Three very bright spotlights in the ceiling did the trick for us. (btw. if you want to see how we build a gym in Korea, have a look at http://homepage.mac.com/kbarends/) The sound on the trailer I just added from a cd, but the sound on the actual dvd isn't bad at all. For people who are interested in shooting an instructional dvd in Korea, give me a call (or send an email). We have the equipment and the space to house quite a few people. You will get a nice trip to Korea, great food, a nice place to shoot your dvd. With an English speaking guide. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ Dutch HKD Federation http://www.sangmookwan.com/ SangMooKwan International Training Center Korea _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Robert Martin" To: Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 09:47:35 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Mr. Martin (Frank Clay) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Clark, > > Sir, > > Prior to correcting someone you should first be aware of military > policies. > There are certain positions that hold restrictions even after leaving > government service. To whit: my father left the Army in 1972; however, was > unable to travel to any communist country until 1980, or other countries > as > deemed by the State Department/Military due to his crypto-clearance. > Ostensibly, an officer should hold at a minimum a confidential clearance. > I > would dare say a general would hold a higher clearance thus precluding his > ability to travel to a country deemed hostile by his government. So, even > having left the service, he still should not have gone after having been > told not to do so. The trip in question was said to have occurred well > before becoming a citizen of another country. Either way, he still should > not have gone because he knew that he would be a security risk (but that > is > purely my opinion.) > I'm aware of the responsibilities of those who have been in government service -- military or otherwise. However, I would point out that Gen. Choi was no longer a citizen of ROK at the time in question. Gen. Choi left ROK on Jan. 3, 1972. Sometime in 1973 (no date given) he was granted permanent residency in Canada, along with his wife and children. This was granted as a political refugee. He first went to North Korea in 1979 and then took the demo team in 1980. > As to history, bear in mind that virtually all KMA orgs have "modified" > history. The unreliability of our historical resources is one of the > things > that harms our study. Case in point, there is a history that indicates > that > Gen. Choi was expelled from the CDK in 1959 after having been found to > have > forged/lied/modified his training history. Did it happen? The only person > that can answer whether his history was forged has passed on. Could there > have been a political reason for such allegations? Heck yeah. And so the > vicious cycle of he said- she said goes on. > Yes, the infamous 6th Dan situation. There were many martial artists very senior to Gen. Choi in Korea. However, he had the political/military position to advance his agenda and did so. > Now as to WTF guideline moving back towards ITF, no. They are moving back > towards mainstream rules such as those found in PKA and other professional > combat sports organizations. Now, there is nothing for the WTF to merge > with > in my mind. There are too many factions and if they did even a minor audit > or risk assessment, I think they would see they have little to gain but a > lot to lose by getting wrapped up in the who is the real ITF debate. If > they > want to do something, in my miond they should honor any certificate issued > by the ITF during Choi's life and subject other "ITF" promotions to > re-examinations. > > Frank > With respect, sir, don't underestimate what the Koreans will do for each other. These talks between ITF-NK and WTF/Kukkiwan are real. It didn't end with the arrest of Dr. Kim but continues now with the new WTF president. The WTF has already lost a lot and could lose more if the IOC makes a rulling against their sport. Yours in the arts, Robert Martin -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1167 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 08:53:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Daniel To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] The Art Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've been a lurker within this mailing list for some time and regularly enjoy reading it. I've come to an issue that's been pestering me for weeks now and wanted others input. As many TKD practioners revel in the martial art's modern popularity, and olympic inclusion, it seems that the art behind the martial art has often been neglected or forgotten completely. Recently it was asked the difference between a sport and a martial art - and while I have a full appreciation of the sport, it seems that many dojangs I've visited seem to focus almost entirely on the sport. Between comercialization, and the focus on the sport-TKD, much of the mental discipline that is essential seems neglected or missing entirely. The ethical and character aspects of TKD seem lacking often. Not that all dojangs have lost it by any means, mine still keeps many of the key mental aspects and we regularly mediate and have classes that focus on everything from ki energy to the practical difference between a "sparring" combination and a "self-defense/practical" combination. Has anyone else noticed this as well? I mean, while some character flaws are more innate, I know from a personal experience - when I started TKD I was short tempered and violent. After only a year I had mellowed out, and now the ideas of respect, self-control, pil sung, and honesty just seem... second nature. When I started the idea that "yelling" or any sort of "energy" seemed foreign and without merrit, I now know better from experience and training. The main inquiry is to - is it just my bad experience when traveling to other dojangs, or is it really become commonplace to focus on nothing but they physical aspect of TKD? I'm not as well traveled as many on this list, so looking for a general thoughts/response. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Wicker, H. Keith" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 12:22:13 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Palgwe and Koryo - sword based? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sid said: <> I find this interesting...Can you please elaborate? Thanks, Keith --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "jakskru" To: Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 16:17:57 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] very interesting website Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net i came across this websute today, and in it (you have to explore the whole site), i found many interesting takes on many of the topics that have been on this forum for quite some time, including bowing, self defense, martial arts training and culture, knives, etc. i strongly urge all on this digest to check out not only the two links below, but also the website as a whole. the site is run by marc "the animal" macyoung, and since i have read much of his work lately, i can say that it is very informative and not to be taken lightly...he has alot of very relevant things to say, so try to keep an open mind about it and be sure to check the site out: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/martialarts.html http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/WIMS.htm http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/ --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Bowing Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 16:20:13 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net i nerver got a reply to this post, and i am still curious as to any replys to my last question....are you bowing to the man or the accomplishments? ----- Original Message ----- From: "jakskru" To: Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Bowing > hey, more power to you if you feel like the bow outside of the dojang is > important in your show of respect...personally, i do not think a bow is or > should be the measuring stick for respect...and as i stated earlier, ALL of > the martial arts practicioners i know do not want you to bow to them outside > of the class...they already know that i respect them at the dojang....and to > say that they are not "true" martial artists is just plain absurd... > > now let me ask you this, what are you bowing to, the man or the > accomplishment? --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 16:43:53 -0600 From: Nathan Miller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Mr. Martin (Frank Clay) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I'm aware of the responsibilities of those who have been in government > service -- military or otherwise. However, I would point out that Gen. Choi > was no longer a citizen of ROK at the time in question. Gen. Choi left ROK > on Jan. 3, 1972. Sometime in 1973 (no date given) he was granted permanent > residency in Canada, along with his wife and children. This was granted as a > political refugee. He first went to North Korea in 1979 and then took the > demo team in 1980. > It was always my understanding that Gen. Choi first fell out of favor with the SK government much earlier than that for sending a demo team to NK. A quick Google search turns up several sites that quote 1966. I can't find it now, but I seem to recall that Choi did not attend this trip, but sent Nam, Tae-hi, his right hand man at the time. Anyone else have information on this earlier trip? Nathan --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest