Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 03:03:41 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #283 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Destiny decided July 8 (Ray) 2. Re: Mr. Martin (Frank Clay) (Christopher Spiller) 3. Re: ITF/WTF for Chris (Christopher Spiller) 4. Re: ITF/WTF for Chris (Christopher Spiller) 5. Re: Re: ITF/WTF for Chris (Ray) 6. Bowing (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 7. Tae Kwon Do in the Orlando, FL area (Barby Campos) 8. Re: Me Bowing (Jon Payne) 9. Re: Bowing (jakskru) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 05:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Destiny decided July 8 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Taekwondo's Destiny to Be Decided July 8 JULY 05, 2005 02:28 The Dong-A Ilbo by Hwan Soo Zang Starting July 5, a conference that will affect the very existence of Korean sports will be held in Singapore and last for four days. It's because at the 117th general meeting of the International Olympic Committee (IOC) on July 5 in Singapore, the IOC is scheduled to vote on a number of issues, including the selection of a venue for the 2012 Summer Olympic Games on July 6, a vote on dismissing IOC members involved in a bribery scandal on July 7, and a vote on the exclusion of 28 Olympic events on July 8. All of Korea's attention is fixed on the last day as Taekwondo, a national sport, is scheduled to be voted on. The selection of a venue for the 2012 Summer Olympic Games is expected to play a critical role in the election hopes of Pyeongchang, which is bidding to host the 2014 Winter Olympic Games. Taekwondo's Prospects- World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) president Choue Chung-won said, "At present, Taekwondo is in neither an optimistic nor pessimistic situation," and left Korea saying, "Do your best and God will do the rest" on July 1. In fact, it was a commonly held view that Taekwondo, which was an official event for three consecutive Olympic Games from the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games to the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games, was relatively safe until a few months ago. However, with the impending vote, the theory of careful movement is prevalent. Last month, the IOC pointed out in its evaluation report that Taekwondo has a low chance of getting attention in the media with low TV ratings, low popularity, and a problem in fairness of judgment. Every public opinion poll on possible events for exclusion conducted worldwide contained Taekwondo. Karate's aggressive lobbying is also an eyesore. The voluntary resignation from the vice-president post of Kim Un-yong, who was released on parole on June 30, developed as a three-party deal between Cheong Wa Dae, and IOC president Jacques Rogge, which deteriorated public opinion in international sports circles. However, Taekwondo drew a positive evaluation from the IOC by submitting a blueprint to improve the above three problems in a report from its reform committee, and is putting its hope not on an individual's ability, but on its omni directional sports diplomacy that it displayed "post Kim Un-yong." The Vote for Exclusion- If a majority of 59 votes is achieved in secret electronic voting out of a total of 116 IOC members, Taekwondo will be selected as an official event of the 2012 Summer Olympic Games. The result only decides pros and cons, and the polling process is not open to the public in principle. In addition to Taekwondo, Korea also should pay close attention whether or not archery, Korea's main source of gold medals, and baseball will be excluded from event categories. Candidate events to be included into the Olympic Games are golf, rugby, squash, karate, and roller sports. Selection of Venue for the 2012 Summer Olympic Games- With Paris ahead of the other cities, London, New York, Madrid, and Moscow are also candidates to host the 2012 Summer Olympic Games. For Pyeongchang, it would be more favorable if a European city was selected. A strong competitor of Pyeongchang is Salzburg of Austria, and it is highly likely that votes will flow to Pyeongchang in accordance with the unwritten law of letting each continent (Europe, America, Asia) hold the Olympic Games in turn if a European city is selected to host the 2012 summer games. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 06:25:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Mr. Martin (Frank Clay) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Nathan Miller said: >>It was always my understanding that Gen. Choi first fell out of favor with the SK government much earlier than that for sending a demo team to NK. A quick Google search turns up several sites that quote 1966. I can't find it now, but I seem to recall that Choi did not attend this trip, but sent Nam, Tae-hi, his right hand man at the time. Anyone else have information on this earlier trip? Nathan<< I think it's quite obvious that Gen. Choi fell out of favor with the ROK gov. before 1980. I don't know if I'd say it was in 1966, but he did leave South Korea in the early 70s, as Mr. Martin pointed out and from what I have read on the subject he basically snuck out of the country and headed for Canada. Regarding the earlier trip you refer to in your posting that Nam Tae Hi went on, do you mean a trip to North Korea??? I'm pretty sure that GM Nam did *not* go to the DPRK, but you never know. Taekwon, Chris ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 06:31:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF/WTF for Chris Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray said: >> This was already tried, actually. Frankly, Hwang >> Kee didn't want to joing TKD but rather to have >>his own style. >Check your facts. Hwang Kee would have been very >happy to join TKD, but only if he was in charge of >it all. And, of course, that wasn't going to happen. >Sure, he tried to claim otherwise in later years, >but you can't rewrite >history. >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com Oh, I know Hwang Kee started out as being for the merger of the Kwans into Taekwon-Do. However, when it became clear that he wasn't going to be in charge he was all for keeping the MDK independent, from what I've read. And, as I said before, more power to him. Taekwon, Chris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 06:40:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF/WTF for Chris Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sid said: >>What do you mean? Which TKD forms are horseback or sword based?<< >the palgwe's in particular but in specific, koryo was adapted from sword fighting< I'm ITF but I have trained under WTF Masters and learned the Taeguks (not palgwes) and Koryo some time ago. Could you explain how koryo is based on sword fighting? Also, how do *any* TKD forms relate to horseback riding??? > that therre be a > heavy increase in hand technique, >>>and that itf/wtf reach out to moo duk kwan/tang soo do/soo bahk do for them to join this new confederation,<<< >>This was already tried, actually. Frankly, Hwang Kee didn't want to joing TKD but rather to have his own style. More power to him, I say. If you want to unite all TKD that's one thing, but Hwang Kee visualized his TSD/SBD-MDK to be a separate art, it seems to me.<< >i am aware of that. but since Hwang Kee is no longer here, and since we have a chance to start fresh, maybe now is the time for a brand new taekwondo< Maybe, but I see no evidence of needing a new Taekwon-Do, honestly. As for Hwang Kee being dead, true enough, but I haven't seen his son, H. C. Hwang, being particularly interested in joining up with TKD. Of course, as head of SBD MDK he's free to do pretty much what he wants it would seem. >>> Am I asking too much???<<< >>I don't know if it's too much, I'm just not sure it's*necessary*.<< >necessary is a hard concept to address. it will become necessary to compromise differences between itf/wtf. maybe that makes it necessary< I'm not sure I'm following you here. The union between the ITF and WTF and possibly the MDK would be necessary since it would be necessary to compromise the differences between the groups? That still doesn't mean the union between the groups would be necessary in the first place. Frankly, I'm not too keen on the whole idea in the first place, but YMMV. Taekwon, Chris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF/WTF for Chris To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 07:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Oh, I know Hwang Kee started out as being for the > merger of the Kwans into Taekwon-Do. However, when it > became clear that he wasn't going to be in charge he > was all for keeping the MDK independent, from what > I've read. And, as I said before, more power to him. Agreed. I have no problem with what he did. Just that the story seems to have changed quite a bit from what really occurred. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 11:02:46 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bowing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir Jakskru You ask " are you bowing to the man or the accomplishment" I did not reply because I had writen in my post it was my last word on the topic. I was finished with that dicussion, however since you still have questions I will answer. Respect is earned, however some earn respect for different reasons. For example: I respect my instructor for his accomplishments but over many years he has shown me a character worthy of respect. So in his case the answer would be both. I respect my students, because they have humbly come to learn, and put there trust in me as their instructor. They have not accomplished much in the martial arts but I still show them the respect they have earned. My personal humility forces me to remember when I was a beginner. Respect is not that easy. I can tell you that I don't respect those that try to take advantage of others, or lie about there accomplishment, or pretent to be something they are not. I believe if a person has earned my respect in the Do-Jang--- be it by accomplishment, trust , moral character, or whatever --they deserve it anywhere not just at the Do-Jang. Remember the bow is not just bending at the waist. It is a method of projecting respect. If your fear of what others will think is stronger than your respect for another you should meditate and focus on why. Respectfully JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 12:14:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Barby Campos To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Tae Kwon Do in the Orlando, FL area Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greeting to all of the Dojang Digest members I've been a lurker within this mailing list for some time and regularly enjoy reading it. The first time I came out of lurk mode was two years ago, when I asked about being pregnant and training. On that occasion I got excellent advice from all. Now I need the Dojang's assistance again! I recently tested and was awarded my 1st. degree Dan, and my kids are 1st keup. We're visiting our relatives in the Orange County area in Winterpark, FL (Orlando), and we'll be here a month. We'd like to train while we're in Orlando, but don't know any dojangs. Any recommendations? My sister-in-law has heard of Master Craig Harms in this area. What can you tell me? Thank you in advance for your time and information! Respectfully, Barbara Campos ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Jon Payne" To: "The_Dojang" Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:17:22 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Me Bowing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Peters, You aren't going to change your opinion and I'm not going to change mine. I don't believe your thoughts make you anymore traditional than I. I don't see this thread becoming productive and I'm going to let it drop. Jon David Payne --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Bowing Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 16:42:09 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net sorry good sir, but there is no "fear" here that you speak of, just a difference of opinion...my point in asking was to see where you are "projecting" your respect...all i see coming from bowing to fellow martial artists outside the dojang is a loud and somewhat egotistic announcement that you practice the arts...in my opinion the bow should be left in the training environment or the martial arts tournament type setting, as i do not see a need to let it be known to everyone that you practice the arts. also, i know there are practicioners of the arts that have earned their rank and deserve respect for their abilities, but their moral character is questionable...such as the late Bruce Lee just to name one big name... http://www.myodynamics.com/articles/bruce.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 2:02 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Bowing > Respect is earned, however some earn respect for different reasons. For > example: > > I respect my instructor for his accomplishments but over many years he has > shown me a character worthy of respect. So in his case the answer would be > both. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest