Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 13:43:58 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #290 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Make TKD More Interesting (Art V V) 2. Re: Kids and Hapkido (Klaas Barends) 3. RE:teaching kids Hapkido lethal techniques (Slocum, Arlene ) 4. Re: Re: Kids and Hapkido (Ray) 5. Re: Kids in Hapkido (aburrese@aol.com) 6. RE: Re: Kids and Hapkido (Rick Clark) 7. Murderous intent (David Weller) 8. Making Taekwondo more interesting. (MSKBEvans@aol.com) 9. Re: Re: Kids and Hapkido (jakskru) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:48:36 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Art V V" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Make TKD More Interesting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think punches to the face are a little to drastic. Maybe some way to make the opponents more active. The past Olympics were kind of boring, especially when one person was way ahead in points and just coasted to the bell. If the fighters dont know what the score is, then maybe they would fight harder and try scoring more. [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of IMSTP.gif] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type Image/jpeg which had a name of BackGrnd.jpg] --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Klaas Barends Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 05:20:48 +0900 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kids and Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hopefully we're teaching children of that age, and younger, to > properly > and safely handle and use a firearm. Or should we also not do that? There is Ray again with his discussion about firearms. You shouldn't let your kids anywhere near a gun. And you also shouldn't teach lethal techniques to kids. No matter how many ethical discussion you keep before, during or after instruction. A kid does not have to know how to kill another human being. period If your kids see it on TV all the time, you let them watch the wrong channel. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ Dutch HKD Federation http://www.sangmookwan.com/ SangMooKwan International Training Center Korea --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:23:12 -0500 From: "Slocum, Arlene " To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE:teaching kids Hapkido lethal techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Tell me about the Chokes... > > And the falling-knee strike---- > > And the strike to the ears where you rupture the eardrum? > > I was also wondering about the strike to the back of the knee ... In Kansas, 15 year olds can drive cars without supervision (they can drive at age 13 if they live on a farm). To me that is far more dangerous than anything taught in a Hapkido class. Yet no one seems too concerned about it... Arlene Slocum Lawrence Tae Kwon Do School Lawrence, Kansas email: slocarl@sbcglobal.net "Secure Server" made the following annotations on 07/15/2005 03:23:15 PM ------------------------------"This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately." ============================== --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Kids and Hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 13:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Hopefully we're teaching children of that age, and younger, to > > properly > > and safely handle and use a firearm. Or should we also not do that? > > There is Ray again with his discussion about firearms. > > You shouldn't let your kids anywhere near a gun. Sorry, but putting your head in the sand has never worked very well. Would you also not teach your kids about safe sex? About safe driving? > A kid does not have to know how to kill another human being. period Sorry again. Adults and mature children should know how to stop a criminal attack on themselves or a loved one. Sometimes that will involve the use of lethal force. This has nothing to do with killing, but everything to do with self defense. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:48:53 -0400 From: aburrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kids in Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, We teach the kids the lethal techniques the same way as adults, full speed, 100%. I guess that's why so many people are crippled and killed in class each night. Those that live are pretty tough though. I'm not going to discuss this anymore. You seem to think that my Korean Hapkido instructors are not teaching real Hapkido. So, should I listen to an American who says Korean instructors in Korea are not teaching real Hapkido, or should I listen to my Korean instructors in Korea, one of which did know Choi Young Sul. (I do not know the extent Kwanjangnim knew or trained with him, it may have been very little, I just know he at least met and did a little with him. It is one of those things I should ask him more about one of these days) Maybe instead of training in Sept. I should go around Korea telling Hapkido instructors they can't teach real Hapkido to kids. :-) Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:58:22 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Kids and Hapkido To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net HI Klaas, >From: Klaas Barends [mailto:barends@opurk.nl] >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kids and Hapkido > > >> Hopefully we're teaching children of that age, and younger, to >> properly >> and safely handle and use a firearm. Or should we also not do that? > >There is Ray again with his discussion about firearms. > >You shouldn't let your kids anywhere near a gun. I would hope you understand that guns can are used for purposes other than killing another person. Many people in the US hunt on a regular basis, many people live in rural areas where guns are quite common. In these areas its quite appropriate to teach your children how to safely handle firearms. Firearms are not in and of themselves dangerous. When a child does not know how to handle and have the proper respect for a firearm is when there can be problems. > >And you also shouldn't teach lethal techniques to kids. You are making a value judgment based on your personal views. Others of us make value judgments based on our own life experiences and cultural background. > >No matter how many ethical discussion you keep before, during or >after instruction. >A kid does not have to know how to kill another human being. period Perhaps if there would have been some kids around Van Gough that knew some lethal techniques he would not be dead today. Life is getting much more violent and the danger that we and our children face are becoming more and more real. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 7 From: David Weller Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:16:27 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Murderous intent Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'd like to ask the person who posted this a few questions: 1. How do you KNOW these techniques actually do what you say they do without ever having: a) ruptured someone's eardrum b) Fractured their knee cap. c) Busted someone's balls d) fractured something on a person with a bong. (what a concept for a baby boomer) 2. If you haven't used these techniques to actually maim someone how can you be dead positive they will have the desired effect in "meat space" (as opposed to "cyber space") 3. If someone else has success teaching children martial arts, and you have never tried, how can you be sure it can't be done? I hate to respond for Mr. Burrese, but I'll give my answer: I'd teach them the EXACT same way I teach adults! I personally enjoy teaching Young'uns, but I practice one of the martial "sports" so none of our techniques are really deadly like that stuff you are talking about. It's all Patty-Cake in our school... ;=P dave "wondering why I bothered" weller On Jul 15, 2005, at 2:20 PM, "killer" wrote: > And the strike to the ears where you rupture the eardrum? > > I was also wondering about the strike to the back of the knee that > drives > the knee to the pavement and fractures the kneecap. How do they teach > to the little kids? > > There are some dislocations, positions of disadvantage (Upwards thrust > to > the groin with the foot comes to mind) strangling applications with > the jul, > blinding techniques with the soh bong and dan bong, or fracturing > techniques > with the cane or staff. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: MSKBEvans@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 17:22:03 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Making Taekwondo more interesting. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think they should shorten the round time to two minutes and make the fights 2 rounds only. Then make a 20 (hard) kick per round minimum. Make the penalty for not getting the minimum kicks in so much that you lose for sure if you fall short on kick count. The 3-3 minute rounds is one of the primary reason the matches are so boring to watch. Even for a Taekwondo lover like me they are boring. You can't blame the athletes, they are just trying to win within the framework of the rules. The rules as they are set up force them to fight a boring match or lose. I also think the hogus are partially to blame for the boredom. They should be eliminated at the international level or a standard of hardness should be established. The ones they are wearing now are so dense that even the hardest body kick can be ignored by a person with high pain tolerance (Olympic athlete). Thin the hogus down at international level or set a softer standard of hardness or density. As for hands to the head: One of the reasons Taekwondo is an Olympic sport is the sparring as it is done now is significantly different from other kick/punch martial arts sparring. If you approach the IOC with hands to the head included in Taekwondo sparring it will look exactly like kick boxing, muay Thai, karate, kempo and kungfu and all the martial arts that have worked so hard to try to get into the Olympics. By maintaining that difference we have a chance to keep our Martial Art in the Olympics. Adding hands to the head would be the death of Taekwondo as an Olympic sport. :) Bill Evans --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Kids and Hapkido Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 17:23:01 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net my stepfather taught me how to handle a pistol and a rifle when i was 12...funny thing though, i never got a confirmed kill.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Clark" To: Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 4:58 PM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Kids and Hapkido > HI Klaas, > >From: Klaas Barends [mailto:barends@opurk.nl] > >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kids and Hapkido > > > > > >> Hopefully we're teaching children of that age, and younger, to > >> properly > >> and safely handle and use a firearm. Or should we also not do that? > > > >There is Ray again with his discussion about firearms. > > > >You shouldn't let your kids anywhere near a gun. > > I would hope you understand that guns can are used for purposes other > than killing another person. Many people in the US hunt on a regular > basis, many people live in rural areas where guns are quite common. In > these areas its quite appropriate to teach your children how to safely > handle firearms. Firearms are not in and of themselves dangerous. When > a child does not know how to handle and have the proper respect for a > firearm is when there can be problems. > > > >And you also shouldn't teach lethal techniques to kids. > > You are making a value judgment based on your personal views. Others of > us make value judgments based on our own life experiences and cultural > background. > > > > >No matter how many ethical discussion you keep before, during or > >after instruction. > >A kid does not have to know how to kill another human being. period > > Perhaps if there would have been some kids around Van Gough that knew > some lethal techniques he would not be dead today. Life is getting much > more violent and the danger that we and our children face are becoming > more and more real. > > > Rick Clark > www.ao-denkou-kai.org > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest