Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 03:03:47 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #301 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Heads up for Canadian Martial Artists (James Nordstrom) 2. Children and violence (Don Kirsch) 3. Re: sparring clip (Adam D. Huntley) 4. Re: Killing in Soo Bahk Do or other MA (Patrick Williams) 5. Jye's Clips (Steve Roberts) 6. High Dan kids (D P) 7. Re: Killing in Soo Bahk Do or other MA (jakskru) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:57:11 -0700 (PDT) From: James Nordstrom To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Heads up for Canadian Martial Artists Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This was posted today in the Shillelagh Group on Yahoo by Mr. Glen Doyle, and I believe it to be utmostly imperative to consider it: Cheers Jim ============================================================= It has come to my attention that when Parliament reconvenes on September 26, 2005, the Federal Government under the direction of MP Dr. Irwin Colter, Minister of Justice and Attorney General, will table revisions to Section 83 of the Criminal Code. Section 83 is a vague piece of legislation designed to prevent prize fighting in Canada. Initially you might not that think that this affects you. However, most surprisingly, this legislation has the potential to have a significant negative effect on every martial arts school owner-operator, practicing martial artist, or parent or supporter of a martial artist. And here’s why: In Layman’s Terms: q Section 83 of the Criminal Code of Canada appears by virtue of the definition of “prize fight” to deem all martial arts and all martial arts competitions and contests to be “prize fights” and therefore illegal in Canada – i.e. no more tournaments; even sparring within a club could considered illegal. q Owner-operators, students and spectators of these martial art events, amateur or otherwise, are even now engaging in illegal “prize fight” activities and could be charged. q For some reason, boxing is exempt. On the positive side, this demonstrates that exemptions are indeed possible. [This is where our petition comes in.] Currently, Section 83 actually reads as follows: [Engaging in prize fight] 83. (1) Every one who (a) engages as a principal in a prize fight, (b) advises, encourages or promotes a prize fight, or (c) is present at a prize fight as an aid, second, surgeon, umpire, backer or reporter, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction. [Definition of "prize fight" ] (2) In this section, "prize fight" means an encounter or fight with fists or hands between two persons who have met for that purpose by previous arrangement made by or for them, but a boxing contest between amateur sportsmen, where the contestants wear boxing gloves of not less than one hundred and forty grams each in mass, or any boxing contest held with the permission or under the authority of an athletic board or commission or similar body established by or under the authority of the legislature of a province for the control of sport within the province, shall be deemed not to be a prize fight. Current Activities Underway: q Mr. Steve Pritchard, Sport Services Manager of the Alberta Government confirmed that the Federal Government is rewriting Section 83 to state that all martial arts are illegal. The Alberta government made a proposal for changes to Section 83 but Mr. Pritchard was not able to offer more information. q Mr. Brian Ozorio of the Ministry of Tourism and Recreation of the Ontario Provincial Government confirmed that he forwarded recommendations to the Honourable Irwin Cotler that exemptions be increased to include karate, judo, kickboxing and muay thai when redrafting Section 83 in August 2005. q Calgary MP Lee Richardson will present a Petition from the CALGARY AMATEUR KICKBOXING & MUAY THAI ASSOCIATION (CAKMTA) on September 27, 2005 at the House of Commons. q CAKMTA will continue to circulate their Muay Thai and Kickboxing Petition but they also encourage all clubs, competitors, coaches, promoters, etc. to pass a similar petition along to any and all clubs and gyms as this legislation will affect all martial arts in Canada. q The initial Petition from CAKMTA addressed Kickboxing and Muay Thai only, as they did not feel it was appropriate for them to speak for all other martial art disciplines. With CAKMTA’s awareness, I have modified their Petition so that it now includes all martial arts. Alternatively you could create one for your discipline only. q A copy of the revised Petition (covering all martial arts) is available as a download from the HOME page of www.MixedMartialArtsExpo.com. Moving Forward: We have no idea how the legislation will be rewritten, but we must act immediately to ensure that the voice of the martial arts community across Canada is heard loud and clear BEFORE Section 83 is rewritten inappropriately, for once passed by Parliament it will be almost impossible to change. If you are in ANY WAY involved in, or in support of, martial arts in Canada, it is extremely important that you take the following action NOW: q Download a copy of the petition from www.MixedMartialArtsExpo.com. Make and distribute as many copies as you need. q Assertively pursue the acquisition of as many signatures as possible – martial art students, family, friends, neighbours, co-workers. Give them additional blank copies to distribute as well. q If you are an owner-operator you must get EVERY STUDENT sign this petition. q Mail as many completed petitions as possible to your Federal MP before Aug. 15, 2005. You can use this link to locate your MP: http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/people/house/PostalCode.asp?lang=E&source=sm q Make note of these Petition Rules: q The petition must contain a minimum of 25 valid signatures, each with the address of the petitioner. q Each petitioner must sign (not print) his or her own name directly on the petition and must not sign for anyone else. q The petitioner's address must be written directly on the petition and not pasted or reproduced. q The petitioner may give his or her full home address or simply the city and province. q Aliens not resident in Canada cannot petition the House of Commons of Canada. Lastly, please take a moment to forward this e-mail to EVERYONE that you know who supports martial arts. Do it today! -Glen G. Doyle Cheers Jim "Taking life on the chin is all fine and well, but when life throws you a pile of shit best learn to bob and weave." "If people would just be half as smart as they think they are, they would be twice as smart as they really are." --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Don Kirsch" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:45:49 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Children and violence Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a thought on the subject of children and violence in society...." No society that feeds its children on tales of successful violence can expect them not to believe that violence in the end is rewarded." Margaret Mead, anthropologist (1901-1978) Without trying to sound too much like an old hippie...peace and regards, Don Kirsch --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Adam D. Huntley" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:59:51 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: sparring clip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net He looks relaxed and in focus. He would need to go lateral a bit more if I were sparring him. His kicks meshed well with his hand teqs. No grabs, no sweeps, no kicking combos. Suckered him into the ax, I'd love to go a few rounds. Did the match really go over an hour? --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:08:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Williams Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Killing in Soo Bahk Do or other MA To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Like so many other things in life there are choices. Your choice, my choice and everyone Else's choice. What I would do. You would do different. The last time I checked you did not have to be in a dark alley to be jumped. I've seen it in the mall in JC Penny. What? Surrounded and beat senseless. He couldn't run away. In public view. Next, we don't always choose where we go. A trip eastward on business can get you jumped in the lobby of a hotel. You did nothing wrong. Your statement shows you day dream well. Secondly, a knife to the throat has nothing to do with your wallet. You wouldn't fight if he has a knife to your throat right? It is about control. If you don't fight back, I'd take what you owned also. You have a 50/50 chance. He is going to gut you regardless. I would. I grew up on the streets so I have a good idea what he's thinking. The problem could be something as simple as you looked at my girl. You walked by a bumped me and didn't say I'm sorry. What are you looking at? You got a problem? These are things that can get it started. You're not in an alley either. This is reality! If he has a knife don't turn your back and run, remember you wouldn't do that anyhow. It does not matter if you are Hapkido, tangsoodo, aikido etc. If he knows how to use the blade you may want to run. If you can't; fight like hell, he going to kill you anyhow. I would. Thirdly, You sat at a stop light. I am not going to walk up to your car a say get out waving a gun. I'm going to walk up shoot, several times, pull you out into the street, if you still are able to walk, shoot you again, and take your vehicle. This is not the dojang. This happens everyday and this is reality. Not what you are taught in the dojang. Stop day dreaming instructors. Lets get real about what is out there. Those guys (thugs) don't care about your ability to kick, throw or punch. They don't care about my 19 years studying Hapkido. They care only about what you have and what they want.Once you are singled out as a victim it's on. jakskru wrote: > What you are mentioning is only one part of self defense. You will not always be able to escape or run away. i disagree, unless you are already held down by 6 guys or something, or unless you are put into a box or cage with locked or no doors and you are in a gladiator tournament, then if there is a will, there is a way. >We must all be aware of the laws in each state. yes we must, and that was my point originally...and i believe that if you check, attacking mercilessly violates most of them. >Notice the last statement, "being prepared to." If someone shovels a knife to your throat are you going to ask about awareness or freeze? here is the awareness part...why are you somewhere with knife weilding villians in the first place? i can understand if you are in law enforcement or some such occupation that takes you into an area like that...why didnt you avoid the dark alley, or park in a well lit place? why arent you scanning the area as you walk for possible bad guys? this is what i meant by awareness (partially). >Though self defense encompasses awareness and survival, it would also be considered survival to apply a throw followed by a well placed stomp to the skull. Most of all, it is all up to the person being attacked. try to throw someone with a knife to your throat and see how quickly your breathing passage opens up...why not give them your wallet? if that is not possible for whatever reason (when there is a knife to your throat and you are not being robbed, then my guess is that you are already dead because he wanted you dead and you were not *aware* enough to see it coming), then i would suggest that if you must defend in that particular situation, grab the knife blade first...better to have cut fingers that a cut throat, or so i have been told. > Train for both, be prepared for anything, and react. couldnt agree more...but just remember that is only a part of self-defense training...imho _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:28:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Roberts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Jye's Clips Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye I don't have any specific comments on the kicks, but I'd like to thank you for posting links for all of these clips. It's always fascinating viewing. Steve --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "D P" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 07:55:53 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] High Dan kids Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have seen a lot of kids with 2nd Dans, 3rd Dans, and even a few 4th Dans. It seems to be that some styles/schools will pass kids and promote kids solely on the premis that it is good for their self confidence, which, I don't have a problem with. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Killing in Soo Bahk Do or other MA Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:01:47 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net im sorry, but it just seems to me that you spend way too much time playing vice city on playstation...i am not meaning to be insulting, but it is clear you and i have a different world view, so on this topic we arent going to see eye to eye and thats ok...no need to drag this conversation out any longer....thank you for your opinions! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Williams" To: Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Killing in Soo Bahk Do or other MA > Like so many other things in life there are choices. Your choice, my choice and everyone Else's choice. What I He is going to gut you regardless. I would. I grew up on the streets so I have a good idea what he's thinking. The problem could be something as simple as you looked at my girl. You walked by a bumped me and didn't say I'm sorry. What are you looking at? You got a problem? These are things that can get it started. You're not in an alley either. This is reality! > If he has a knife don't turn your back and run, remember you wouldn't do that anyhow. It does not matter if you are Hapkido, tangsoodo, aikido etc. If he knows how to use the blade you may want to run. If you can't; fight like hell, he going to kill you anyhow. I would. > Thirdly, You sat at a stop light. I am not going to walk up to your car a say get out waving a gun. I'm going to walk up shoot, several times, pull you out into the street, if you still are able to walk, shoot you again, and take your vehicle. This is not the dojang. This happens everyday and this is reality. Not what you are taught in the dojang. Stop day dreaming instructors. Lets get real about what is out --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest