Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:44:58 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #305 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. dan fees (J R Hilland) 2. RE: Re: High Dan kids all about the $ (Master Mark Seidel) 3. School in Cullman, Al (mike williams) 4. Invitation to all members (DAVID RODRIGUEZ) 5. High Dan Kids (D P) 6. Sparring clip (D P) 7. Junior Dans (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 8. Moo Duk Kwan Nationals/Korea (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 9. not impressed (Jye nigma) 10. Re: High Dan Kids (Jye nigma) 11. Re: Sparring clip (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 00:13:08 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] dan fees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It is a shame that more people do not have your attitude. Demanding thousands of dollars just for the testing fee is ridiculous, but people pay them. They just don't know better I suppose. Another reason to promote isolationism! I tell my prospective chodan what the cost of the belt, the certificate and my fee is months ahead of time. I always have. If they really want a black belt that bad, just go online and order one for a few bucks. <<>> --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Master Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: High Dan kids all about the $ Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 07:21:23 -0400 Organization: The Midtown Academy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know they don't charge that much but almost all of the TKD school here mark up the fees considerably. Dan promotion should began at 16 IMHO Mark . -----Original Message----- From: Ali Alnasser [mailto:sunmukwan@mac.com] Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 11:20 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: High Dan kids all about the $ Mark : <> I haven't posted in a while. I don't think the Kukkiwon charges those amounts. The Kukkiwon sets a standard price (I think 4th dan is $150 or so). Masters are given the discretion to set their own price, so any additional fees beyond what the Kukkiwon mandates goes directly to the master's pockets. I'm not a Taekwondo practitioner, so perhaps someone with more experience in this matter may want to comment. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 07:58:57 -0700 (PDT) From: mike williams To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] School in Cullman, Al Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Everyone We are a WTF school, but we also teach the ITF tuls in addition to the Taegeuk hyungs. One of my students is moving to Cullman, Alabama. Does anyone have a school in that area where he can continue training? He is a green belt, so switching schools and learning diferent techniques should not be problem. When a student from another school comes into our class, we do not make them start over from white belt. They retain their rank and wear the belt they worked so hard to earn (even if it is a color we don't award). They are not promoted until they can meet all the requirements for all the belts up to their next rank. How do other instructors handle students from other schools, and even from other styles of martial arts? I don't post often, but I enjoy the list. Mike Williams --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:46:40 -0700 (PDT) From: DAVID RODRIGUEZ To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Invitation to all members Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net World Martial Arts Brotherhood http://groups.msn.com/WORLDMARTIALARTSBROTHERHOOD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "D P" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:12:00 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] High Dan Kids Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jr. ranks is an excellent idea, like someone else said, as kids, their techniques are not where they really should be for their belt level and that they make dramatic improvements in technique once they become teenagers. I have a child who studies with me and my child is just blown away everytime we pass a belt test. Besides, one of the most important things for young kids is to develop self confidence. My Grandmaster and Masters know that a child with a black belt is a lot different than an adult with a black belt and therefore, we, as adults, do not have to bow to the kids with black belts. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "D P" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:19:04 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring clip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a huge problem with anyone who disrespects or belittles any other style. I feel that person is far less a person and martial artist if their mind is not open enough to accept the fact that there are many other styles and everyone (in the US) is free to choose what style they want to study. Respect them as a person and a martial artist and simply keep you thoughts and feelings about other styles to yourself. I am willing to bet he has never even studied TKD or any other style. Lastly, I am not impressed with his techniques and I come from a Kung Fu background, Wing Chun Kung Fu, specifically. _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:04:06 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Junior Dans Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been watching the discussion about high ranking dans. That by age are junior or they are not yet adults. I believe the reason this happens is because people have lost the traditional values of martial arts training. In the Moo Duk Kwan organization there is no age limit set for dan ranks up to Sam Dan. However, there is a strict testing process to obtain the rank. I personally have several youth dan members at my school. I have some 16 and 17 year old 2nd dans that can teach, as good as any adult and can spar with any adult, including full contact. That is the way they have been trained. I have a cho dan that has been training 14 years and is only 21. I have an E-Dan that has been training 9 years and is 17. Time and age did not get them the rank. Sweat, effort, humility, and ability earned them the rank they are at. In the Moo Duk Kwan you must be at least 21 years old to be considered for 4th dan and at least 25 to be considered for Sa Bom certification. I think that to many school put focus on rank, and not enough on ability, skill, attitude, and traditional values. It seems to be the schools that have broken away from founding organizations, or the commercalized schools that have these 5 year old dans and 14 year old masters. The instructor did not want to be governed so he breaks away from a legitamate organization and becomes the governor of his own. The standards decrease, the instructor looks like a hero for producing a 14 year old masters and the art is diluted once more. Stop being so concerned with rank and just train. My instructor always said at the beginning of class, "This is your oppertunity, If you don't want to give 110% during this class go home" As I came up though the ranks I remember the only think that was important was coming to class and giving all you had. Nobody was concerned with rank, when the instructor said you could test you just said yes sir, and continued to train, The test would come and go and you may have a new rank, but the training did not change. It was train as hard as you can can as often as you can, so you can become the best that you can. Woman and Children were just another body in the class, no special attention was given to them, although there were fewer woman and children then, the ones that were training during that time earned everything they got right along side the guys Schools now seem to heard people throught the school like cattle, getting (selling) black belts in two years, promoting teenaged kids to masters. It is easy to see that if two students of equal mental and physical potential, receive there dan rank, one in two years and one that earned his in 7 years. That the quality of these two students will not be equal. It is not about the rank it is about the time and experiance in training ---provided that it is quality time and quality instruction the student is receiving. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:13:54 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan Nationals/Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The US Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan National Tournament was last week-end in Orlando,Florida. I sent one dan student, a female cho-dan, 13 years old. She has been training since 1996. She won first in sparring and first in Hyung. Congratualation to Ms. Vines of Gladewater, Texas The World Moo Duk Kwan is hosting the 60th anniversary of the Moo Duk Kwan at the Hanwa Resort in Sokcho,City near the Sorak Mountians North of Seoul October 2, 2005. There will also be a tour of Jeju Island. I will be going and taking with me six student from my school. Master Travis Guinn and two of his students from Houston will be going with me as well as Master Cash Cooper and Master Craig Hays from the Dallas area. The celeration is open to any Soo Bahk Do, Tang Soo Do, Tae Kwon Do, or other style that has roots tied to Grandmaster Hwang Kee and the Moo Duk Kwan. I went to the 50th anniversary in Seoul 1995. It was a great experiance, If anyone would like to attend contact me dirrectly or go to www.soobahkdo.com for information. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:35:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] not impressed Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Perhaps this video just didn't catch him in the best light, but I am not impressed with this so called Grandmaster: http://streaming.ataonline.com/ataonline/w03_gm_sh_lee_hi.wvx Jye --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:00:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] High Dan Kids To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well in my opinion, it's not totally about their technique as it is about their understanding of techniques as well as maturity level. See A child asorbs without complete understanding. My son can do certain techniques extremely well however he lacks the total understanding of the technique and why and when to use it. I tell him the why's and the whens but my words are only like throwing out calculus solutions to problems before one studies calculus. So it's like they hear the important stuff but don't understand totally but when they get older and learn more things and have more life experience, then they'll have that big "ooooooohhhhhhhhhhh!!!!" moment. So I believe in Junior ranks because it gives kids a goal (short term and long term) and teaches them to stick with what they start and to reach their goals. Jye D P wrote: Jr. ranks is an excellent idea, like someone else said, as kids, their techniques are not where they really should be for their belt level and that they make dramatic improvements in technique once they become teenagers. I have a child who studies with me and my child is just blown away everytime we pass a belt test. Besides, one of the most important things for young kids is to develop self confidence. My Grandmaster and Masters know that a child with a black belt is a lot different than an adult with a black belt and therefore, we, as adults, do not have to bow to the kids with black belts. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:10:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sparring clip To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yeah I'm not with that stuff either. My thought is not all TKD is the same, and not all TKD stylists train the same. I for one approach TKD quite differently then most, and my 'style' is much different then what is taught. But at least he's fair...he states that many in his style BaguaZhang are merely "dancers" not being able to fight with their art. I will say that he openly accepts all challengers, and/or people who can prove him wrong. To me, TKD does have some loop holes or weaknesses as does any other system, but I feel that a skille pupil will recognize those things and strengthen them. As would others from other systems. His site is www.blacktaoist.com. I'm not sure if he studied TKD but I know another brother who taught him studied Tang Soo Do in his past and I think his specialty is Hsing-i. Jye D P wrote: I have a huge problem with anyone who disrespects or belittles any other style. I feel that person is far less a person and martial artist if their mind is not open enough to accept the fact that there are many other styles and everyone (in the US) is free to choose what style they want to study. Respect them as a person and a martial artist and simply keep you thoughts and feelings about other styles to yourself. I am willing to bet he has never even studied TKD or any other style. Lastly, I am not impressed with his techniques and I come from a Kung Fu background, Wing Chun Kung Fu, specifically. _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest